[Sub Rosa] Issue #19 arrives!

Drifting on the clouds and appearing from the mist, Sub Rosa emerges to present issue 19 for your reading enjoyment! This 84-page issue is about new worlds, and offers up a trio of places sure to expand your horizons. We have a trip into wine dark seas and the distant shores of America with a large article on the colony of Roanoke by Jim Seals. But if you have an aversion to ships, we can fly into the skies with the Cloudlands of Aiolia by Ben McFarland. And lastly, we've got a cache of secrets and seeds for Old Britannia, a small duchy in northern France which can add a lot of flavor to games visiting the Normandy Tribunal, written by Benoît Léoutre. A new world might be one of magical understanding, shifted political reality, or simply new perspective and Robin Bland explores what a saga focused on hedge wizards just might entail, including an index of all the minor groups throughout the Ars Magica 5th edition line. Gerald Wylie returns with a new Set Piece article, this time examining the Mill, its role and its potential stories. Gerald also offers up a bit of game mechanics musing, as he considers shifting from the d10 system to several other options. Berengar Drexel details a new mystery cult, the Friends of the Apacei, and a couple of its members. Line veteran Mark Shirley returns to give a look at the method of Geomantic Storytelling, and how it provides a great game experience. Finally, we have a short letter from Ars Magica 4th Edition line editor and current developer of Magic Shoe, Jeff Tidball.

Our cover comes to us by the awesome and gracious Jeff Menges (I can't post it because of issues, but I can give you a link to it here!), and our internal art is spearheaded by the absolutely fantastic regulars we've come to love so much: Patrick Demo, Barrie James, Jeff Menges, Elizabeth Porter, Angela Taylor, and Jason Tseng. They do outstanding art, and we can't thank them enough.

We have changed how you get Sub Rosa, if only a little.

If you'd like to purchase an issue of Sub Rosa, send $4.50(US) for single issues, $13(US) for a troupe issue via paypal to subrosa@distantlandspublishing.com send and we'll shoot you a link to download your copy.

Our policy of providing a free copy of issue #20 the first three reviewers of issue #19 still stands-- if you've got #19 and want #20 for free, let us know what you thought of this issue. Post your review and send us an email to subrosa@distantlandspublishing.com. We'll hook you up. And once again, we have three issues being sent to reviewers. You'll want to move fast if you want to buy Number 19 and potentially not buy again for as long as you're willing to let us know your opinions on the current issue.

-Ben.

Hm. It appears the article I submitted was not accepted. I guess I'll have to do better next time then.

That doesn't seem right. I thought we had all of them in there. Email me the title, and I'll figure out what happened!

If it was an oversight on our part, which is totally possible, we'll get you in #20, and I'll get you a copy of #19-- since you should have been in it!

-Ben.

The Beast That Is Not a Beast.
Maybe it slipped through the process somewhere

That'll be my fault.

Apologies. I suspect we got to the point where the issue was full but I didn't feed that back.

I'll pull the article out and it'll be in 20 for sure.

It should make sense it issue 20 as well, mind you. :slight_smile:

Why is that? Oh wait, it's a secret! :wink:

Hehe, "lies and secrets" for issue 20 theme is already noted in my personal subrosa index! I'm very eagerly loooking forward for that!

So I just read subrosa 19 and here is my review of it... almost 1 year after the issue of 18, number 19 has made us waiting a lot (first announced during summer 16, remember? ^^)...

It's written during the time I read It because my reactions are most honestly transcribed and because I have not a lot of time those days.

This issue is 84 pages long, which for subrosa is the average (which I calculate at 84 precisely...).

Under the rose
Great news, sub rosa is not finished. It was something I wondered: since the line is finished, would the fanzine stop as well, besides seeing the new one - Peripheral code - emerges, and asking myself if it would be sub rosa replacement in a great scheme of fanzine authors... but no. Yes!
Oh, they do mention the new fanzine, quite interesting. I'm wondering if PC 1 speaks of SR too. I guess it does.

direct from atlas game

Well in the line of the past, Jeff Tidball words. He speaks about "magic shoe", a new project of atlas game using setting of Mythic Europe + Gumshoe...
I'm sorry, what is gumshoe? I have NO idea. Okay maybe it is this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUMSHOE_System but well, I'm not sure. Anyway, it seems to be about investigation, and that, as horror, are two things I found Ars not to be very interesting to try. Magi are just not fit for this, and so... well. Okay, okay.

Roanoke, founded
Ah an article about achronistic touches. I have had SG's using that for long, and while not doing it on purpose, I used magic devices to emulate a terminator/Shrike (from Hyperion's cantos) creature/being.

Here it is about colonization of the north america and a "missing colony" who seems to disappear and reapper in Mythic Europe. The thing I like is all the setting/ideas, but what I would have a hard time to explain is the gun (muskeet) thing. How does it fit with magic theory? i have no clue at all. I know that on these forums there have been a lot of threads discussing that, but I don't remember any conclusion, except "it doesn't quite fit in the medieval paradigm and the 10 forms". Too bad it seems not adressed. Gerald Wylie to the rescue for a next issue? :smiley:.

GEomancy

Hum. It is a tool out and in game. In game, it is covered by some gameplay mechanics (which the author refers to since it's in official books).

Out game, you can build it, as does this particular Storyteller. I know my group will never use this and I'm not really the handyman so let's go and check what it can be used for.

  • planning stories. Okay, it's like the table in RoP faerie from which you get 3 things, add them up and create a theme.
  • playing stories : I get where the author is going, but definitely not my style.

I like my stories to be inserted in a grand order of things: NPCs (minor or major) do things because of causes, and what they do have consequences, known or not to the PCs. Time goes, time comes back, and if the PCs do not deal with the consequences when it is feasable the consequences come hard and try to take them down, as would life.
This kind of setting means I have a long and hard time managing what I call the "saga verse" : I have to use a relationship-chart (I use kumu.io for it but cannot show you a printscreen since some players of mine are also reading it... and that relationship chart contains all the intrigues, facts and whatever between NPC and PCs known or not!). Think of that as a "police chart" with persons, and threads between them, like in your favored movies.
Additionnaly I have a timetable, starting from the 13th century before JC and running up to the future (15th century as of now, but the future is only meant as "should happen" because the players can disrupt that).
Before every session, I read the time table and check the chart. I focus mainly on the time period the PCs are currently in. After every session, I update those two tools.

Considering that, I have flexibility to play during the session, but I must be consistent with the setting. So virtually, I could use that kind of tool to decide how a story go, but then would need to tweak the result to match my setting. My personal action is the reverse: check the options which match my setting, and decide what would be interesting for the story.

Anyway, it is always interesting to see how other SGs use and play the game!
PS : i really like the idea of the tool itself. I will use it as a resource ingame to pass coded information. I need to think about it.

The Friends of the apacei of vinilandia: a mystery cult

Those are magi who enter a cult which is more about the travels and exploration of the fringe of the order. They publish their discoveries and may have trouble with locals. In short: another mystery cult (in the sens of secret society, not a house...).

As NPC, they form a solid cult the SG can use to get adventures seed and temptations to the players.
As PC, it's good for a player who would want to focus on exploration. A seeker would be fitting for the cult.
The focus being mainly north that would allow a SG to introduce traditions from the north in play.

I think I will use it one time, at some point. The names are sufficiently odd to attract attention and curiosity.
Come with 2 ready to use NPC. Always good!

Stepping away from d10 by Gerald Wylie
Interesting fact: a player IRL started to complain the die has too much impact on abilities roll. Now I'm reading that and... first premise: not erasing random roll. I can agree to that. If not using random, the game may be a bit boring because only narrative based, and all players are not equal in this matter.

He explains different alternatives. While there are some I immediatly discarded for my personal taste (the d20...) I would go for a 1d6 option, if there wasn't the immediate downside: too easy to botch, too easy for great success.
It is an issue I have in Starwars d6 game where there was such a "special dice" involved. We used an ars magica thing by saying: "you must reroll the d6 and check if you confirm the botch (1) or the reroll (6).

In conclusion: I appreciate the effort, but for my own taste, I will stick to the d10 theory. If I want abilities to have more influence on rolls, I can decide beforehand that some actions /knowledge require a base score in that ability and that without it, you cannot get what you want to have. This would encourage players to invest in abilities and not just rely on dice rolls or good caracteristics.

The cloudlands

Anyone reading the manga One Piece? That's skypiea for you, but Ars magica edition!
I will definitely use that setting: who would not want to go on an adventure on a land on the clouds? :smiley:.

Set piece : the mill
Oh, another article by Gerald Wylie, this time about the mill.

Those articles are always fully detailled, background stuff and all. For those SGs who like to use the "every day" approach and close to the companions/grogs, it's always interesting. You have setting, NPCs, story seeds... everything you want to run a story about a mill with ease.
I take a great interest in the pieces of background, but never find use for those in my games.

Wow, I developped prescience. Gerald DO speak a bit about "fire and explosions". Okay, not to the point of speaking of firearms in Ars Setting like I wanted after reading a previous article, but well. /D that is good for me!

A saga of minor magics
It develops on the idea to make a saga about hedge wizards instead of hermetic ones. This article analyzes the advantages and the differences. For example, for an hermetic magus, magical plants have few interest... they can have better with a CrHe or CrCo ritual spell. But what if you are not an hermetic magus?
What if you play the hedge wizard wanting to live near an hermetic covenant? that time, you are not the powerful, you are the feeble.

It's a very interesting article because it may allow you to discover the game again, by another way. Same fundamentals, same ambiance, same mysteries, but new options and limitations!

Thanks for this article, I may not need it, but if one day I feel tired of playing an hermetic wizard, I would very well decide this approach.

Since it is a long article - it covers almost 18 pages - I cannot stress the work done by the author enough : he did reference the traditions in annex of his article.
Very great job done, there, sir.

Olde brittania
A setting piece in Brittania, with names, peoples, places, maps. All you can need if you decide to play an adventure of saga there.

And, well, that's it.

There is no mappa mundi this time and we will certainly have a difficult time the next time, to decipher the lies and secrets which will lie in the next issue... hoping that it will not be in one year, because one year is (too) long!

Keep doing your best works, we like it!

Exar.

Thank you.

I'll pass on your comments to Gerald Wylie and Robin Bland. I'm sure they'll be very appreciative.

And I would add, if you're liking the idea of more involved hedge magi in a saga, check out Syfy Channel's The Magicians, as the first season involves a hedgie group and gives some good ideas about how such a group might be utilized.

Greetings!

Just finished reading the latest issue of Sub Rosa #19, and here are my impressions:

“Under the Rose” strikes a very positive note going forward, with a warm welcome to Jason Tondro's Peripheral Code fanzine, followed up by an enthusiastic endorsement for “Magic Shoe”, the Ars Magica “Gumshoe” variant...

...and, in “Direct From Atlas-Games”, Jeff Tidball brings us up to date on “Magic Shoe” news.

"Roanoke, Founded” by Jim Seals, gives plenty of background on the voyages and peoples that ended up in that infamous settlement, with the conceit that they were actually displaced in time and space, and could conceivably interact with 1220 Ars Magica setting. I felt the article dedicated too many lines to the background history, but it sure is fascinating! It concludes with 3 solid saga ideas. There’s a new monster (Wen-di-go! Wen-di-go!) and a couple of new weapons and one armor statted out.

“Geomantic Storyguiding” by Mark Shirley…Throw them bones! A very shamanistic way of playing. We get some background on Geomancy, but the essence of the article is the use of geomantic props to introduce random story elements/complications/colorful characters to the planning of the Saga, or just to the Scene at hand. There is probably an app for this, I know GMs who do this with cards or with dice/random number generators, together with massive tables of curious happenstances. Kudos to Mr. Shirley for bringing a minor game element to RL so that it can then be used for creating the game. Time is a circle! :wink:

“The Friends of the Apacei of Viniland: a Mystery Cult” by Berengar Drexel was thoroughly enjoyable. A Tytalus nobody and nothing magus accidentally becomes a hero whose travelogues about his possibly fake adventures saving the Apacei people from Rune Wizards time and time again inspire an enthusiastic Mystery Cult. The main characters have wonderfully colorful names (Maiusculus, Ater, Bodo, RumTumTus), and they are statted up (although the two familiars, particularly the cat-35 Might! :open_mouth: - are missing a lot of stuff). There’s also a new virtue for Mystagogues, story seeds, and the whole is-it-fake-or-is-it-real backstory, thumbs up!

I must confess when I first read the title for the new regular column "Mutatis Mutandis: Stepping Away from the d10”, I asked myself whether author Gerald Wylie meant Ronnie James Dio or Dio Brando. That font really threw me for a loop! :slight_smile: Mr. Wylie’s stated purpose for the column is to take a single element of the rules and analyze it, suggest a different element/s to replace it, and analyze that change also. In this case, replacing the d10 with other dice. It’s thorough, I’d be game to try out the 2d6 option.

“The Cloudlands” by Ben McFarland was my second favorite article. Kept from the top spot by a lack of creature writeups! I needed Albina, Gogmagog and the Giant Sheep at the very least! This setting of the Realm in the clouds was great, any saga could use it. Six short pages! Could have used more!

"Set Piece: The Mill" by Gerard Wylie presents another classical location for fantasy adventures, with lots of real-world information (this is Ars Magica, after all), the obligatory references to City & Guild, complications in combat in and around the mill, a miller, his Gifted daughter, a river spirit, an enchanted millstone, thoughts on flour, and more. Very useful.

“Hedge Wizards: A Saga of Minor Magics” by Robin Bland contemplates a saga from the side of a bunch (a gaggle?) of hedgies. It includes a list of most of the hedge traditions in the Ars Magica line (although some sort of pasting mishap has led to many of the descriptions being cut off in mid sentence), even those of House ex Miscellanea. I'd point out to include the Branchidae from Through the Aegis.
It’s a subject I’ve often thought about myself. I'd like to emphasize that the lethality of the game ramps up a lot without shield grogs and Magic Resistance, and possibly little to no healing.
Non-Hermetic traditions also tend to have very detrimental reactions to Warping.
Their xp gains are also limited (no covenants to pay their upkeep, few sources of study, if any, of great quality), and mostly couldn't be shared between characters unless they shared affiliations.
Without the Parma, one has to basically hand wave the effects of the Gift or go the mostly Gentle/Unaffected by the Gift route. You’d need a lot of allies, even more so than regular Hermetic magi. Even pesky demons.
Of course players are a crafty lot!
And some of the hedge traditions listed are ridiculously powerful, not really hedge magi by any means: the Soqotrans are well- organized by their spirit [strike]overlords[/strike] friends, the Amazons have TeFo magic equivalents and nasty spells, the Muspelli are amazing, and the Hyperboreans...say what?! :astonished: - would be outright banned by many Storyguides.
The Order of Solomon is its own world.
And Ceremony is still Ceremony.
While the Rippers…rip clothing.
The author also suggests Mythic Companions as good choices, I’d say give your less powerful hedgies the same treatment as them, 2 virtue points/point of flaws, particularly if they are going to go up against the Order on a regular basis.
Lots to digest in this article!

"Old-Britannia" by Benoît Léoutre explores a region of the Normandy Tribunal, with a general overview of cities and towns, ruling families, the Church, and ancient history. There are plenty of sidebars with Story seeds. I would have liked at least one write-up of a specific location, personage, or legendary creature. There are some references I didn't get, perhaps to a home-brewed Saga (Covenant of Falaise, High Lady Blanche of Bonisagus, several Bjornaer-led covenants in the region), maybe just a wordcount/editing issue.

All-in-all a solid read with several outstanding pieces. Very grateful to the dynamic duo of McFarland and Lawford and the contributing artists and authors for their efforts.

Farewell.

Sorry about the lack of giant blocks-- I think issue #17's giants and the giants in RoP:M were in my mind, so I didn't want to spend the space on another giant statblock.

There's also one in Sub Rosa #8, and I know I referenced them in Dies Irae, so it's probably that I've got warped sense of an abundance of giant statblocks in Ars Magica. :wink:

The other point I've started feeling from various threads is that most folks play at a variety of different power levels, and so many times I worry about building an appropriately challenging foe suitable for many playstyles. Yes, I understand the utility of having something in hand versus not, but here, I wanted to leave the door open.

NO seriously?

When I first read the title, I myself read d10 as dio... and meant that Dio from Jojo's!

Hail and well met!

First, I would like to thank both ExarKun and Ignes.Festivus for their kind reviews of Roanoke, Founded. As one obsessed with imperial colonization, this has been a passion project of mine for awhile, and it is good to have the final product in the public sphere.

From ExarKun:

Of gunpowder, my thinking was that it would be a finite resource for the colonists to burn through once and would not be able to replenish without also creating a powder mill. As a consequence, I figure most magi/players would chalk it up to a crude, mundane approach of co-opting Ignem spells as opposed to an addition to Magic Theory.

From Ignes.Festivus:

The author is inclined to agree with you on both points! In wanting to supply a solid enough grounding for why these Englishmen differed from their 1220 counterparts I may have gotten carried away.

-J.

Why is gunpowder so often suggested to be outside "the medieval paradigm"? It existed in the medieval world. You had to go a little bit East at the default start date for AM5 sagas but within a generation or so Europeans were encountering it in the Middle East.

It seems to be that writing gunpowder out of the setting is an example of what Ars Magica shouldn't be doing - substituting an arbitrary fantasy paradigm for medieval reality.

I could say the same about turning Vinland into Faerieland, on the note of North America.

Gunpowder use is discussed in issue #4, too. Mark Shirley wrote it, it's been a while since I reviewed it.

Jabir,

Good evening.

Speaking of personal experience, I have played and ran in Ars Magica campaigns where both gunpowder and Vinland were fixtures of the setting.

In case of gunpowder, my magus was kidnapped by Monguls and learned Craft: Gunpowder (along w/ Buddhist teachings and Calligraphy) while traveling with their galloping war-machine. Once he was rescued, he proceeded to create a powder mill in Riga with the intent of using their own weapons against them in the coming invasion. In case of Vinland, I also guest hosted a three-episode spinoff series of HBO Ars Magica wherein the mages landed in modern-day Maine and discovered the dying embers of the Order of Odin had integrated into the daily lives of the Penobscot Nation. Whilst there one of the maga discovered a Magical Wolverine and later turned him into her familiar.

As GM, I was worried when I ran that the New World would be too much, especially since I was playing in someone else's sandbox. But that has not been the case at all. I even managed to [strike]con[/strike] motivate several players to learn Algonquin over the seasons we played; a language still spoken in Hibernia among certain characters that went on the journey. That's probably my crowning achievement.

Both are possible to massage into the setting without upsetting the apple cart. For Roanoke, the colony was so poorly supplied that I imagine most colonists would be able to accomplish is to kill a Shield Grog or two in an unexpected fashion.

-J.

I think what is hard with gunpowder is that when you accept it, then you go for engines, then machines.
And that's where the flaws of the simple "gunpowder & explosions are ignem" strikes as not pertinent.

Besides, if gunpowder is covered, then a blast should be too. Is it still ignem, or auram? So isn't the "explosive fireball" a ignem requisite auram spell? what should then be the difference mechanically speaking.

There are dozens of topics about this on this forum IIRC and none has managed to make those things properly in the setting AFAIK.

"Roanoke, Founded” by Jim Seals: I find the Roanoke article well-written and would appreciate more articles on the possibility of temporal anacronisms and characters in ME.

“Geomantic Storyguiding” by Mark Shirley: This article is intriguing and reminiscent of the old TSR era attempt to use 'in character' randomisers to affect story flow. It also brings back memories of the 'Whimsy cards ' of ARSM 2e fame.

“The Friends of the Apacei of Viniland: a Mystery Cult” by Berengar Drexel : I found this informative but..It was a bit like reading somone's campaign notes, sans much background. It could have done with a bit more background, to my mind.

Mutatis Mutandis: Stepping Away from the d10: I must confess that mechanics do not enthrall me, I view rules as vehicle for story. Therefore, this thorough analysis , while admirable, rather missed the mark with me.

“The Cloudlands” by Ben McFarland was delightful! I implore Sub Rosa to print more such 'high fantasy' settings for those of us looking for a more 'Mythic-heavy' Mythic Europe!

"Set Piece: The Mill" by Gerard Wylie was quite well fleshed out and impressive: I find it useful and applaud the author's eye for detail.

“Hedge Wizards: A Saga of Minor Magics” by Robin Bland provided much food for thought. The detriments to characters of differing hedge traditions associating are quite pronounced. In effect, they'd have to create something like a 'Council of Traditions' to function with any cohesion in stories. Ex Miscellenia by any other name, perhaps?

Old-Britannia" by Benoît Léoutre: This piece was quite well-written. I found myself wishing it were longer, truth to tell, perhaps on the oder to the old 'Manx Gazzeteer' in the former Mythic Perspectives?

Sub Rosa Issue 19 Review

"Roanoke, Founded” by Jim Seals: I find the Roanoke article well-written and would appreciate more
articles on the possibility of temporal anacronisms and characters in ME.

“Geomantic Storyguiding” by Mark Shirley: This article is intriguing and reminiscent of the old TSR era
attempt to use 'in character' randomisers to affect story flow. It also brings back memories of the
'Whimsy cards ' of ARSM 2e fame.

“The Friends of the Apacei of Viniland: a Mystery Cult” by Berengar Drexel : I found this informative
but..It was a bit like reading somone's campaign notes, sans much background. It could have done
with a bit more background, to my mind.

Mutatis Mutandis: Stepping Away from the d10: I must confess that mechanics do not enthrall me, I
view rules as vehicle for story. Therefore, this thorough analysis , while admirable, rather missed the
mark with me.

“The Cloudlands” by Ben McFarland was delightful! I implore Sub Rosa to print more such 'high
fantasy' settings for those of us looking for a more 'Mythic-heavy' Mythic Europe!

"Set Piece: The Mill" by Gerard Wylie was quite well fleshed out and impressive: I find it useful and
applaud the author's eye for detail.

“Hedge Wizards: A Saga of Minor Magics” by Robin Bland provided much food for thought. The
detriments to characters of differing hedge traditions associating are quite pronounced. In effect,
they'd have to create something like a 'Council of Traditions' to function with any cohesion in stories.
Ex Miscellenia by any other name, perhaps?

Old-Britannia" by Benoît Léoutre: This piece was quite well-written. I found myself wishing it were
longer, truth to tell, perhaps on the oder to the old 'Manx Gazzeteer' in the former Mythic
Perspectives?