Thomas, Janet and the Baby eat there on a regular basis. Presumably, at the table with the highest concentration of Guile, as everyone pretends they don't mind sitting with the Weird Tattooed Man. I'm guessing that is either what counts as the upper crust here, or the scholarly set.
anyone else want to join? Do yourself a favor and don't accept any gifts from him. But he doesn't bite, not since he lost most of his teeth.
Is he hawt?
Just wait until Astor shows up...
Probably do more... once the dinner is over... In the Getting to Know You thread. Is there anything else going on to hang around for in Aodhan's thread?
Well, seeing as how it's been over a week since Amul was last on the forums, he's not responded to the pm I sent him Friday afternoon, and there's stuff I've heard, I'm assuming that Amul is at least taking a break from the forums.
So, I'm going to do some Imperius Rex/Deus ex Machina/SG Fiat type stuff. I'm going to basically decree that (unless Amul returns fairly soon), that Thomas the Rhymer has not arrived yet. So, I'm locking the Tam Lin thread, and I'm going to figure out a "recap" to figure out what happened in the Giant Problem Thread without Thomas.
Hate to do that, but...
I can toss the sailor/grog story and just do an instagrog kind of approach to the grogs that might be necessary to Ysebrand's story. Ysebrand is ready to wheel and deal...
Prince, you can pick up something later with Talia or take care of other business. But simply, Talia isn't going to be...compliant. 
And with the exception of Eilid, Talia isn't totally keen on Bjornaer...
No worries. Maybe next time I'll have to make some Charm rolls on Talia... 8)
I don't object to having Talia RP that she was charmed by an NPC, but I do have, as Peregrine knows, issues with PCs trying to make the interaction based on rolls. I've had bad experiences with that, and many RPers i kno have had similar experiences. We can talk about how things should flow OOC and then RP it out, but then you and are agreeing to a mutually interesting story/vignette.
I'm not keen on Talias pants being charmed off, be they imaginary or not, on the basis of a die roll. I am interested in having someone jump,through her hoops, and you may not be. That's fair, it just means they don't hook up.
Same with making a deal, trading resources between characters... Would you like it if I have bargain of 13'and you have a bargain of 2, and I force your character to accept a massively unfair bargain? Wouldn't you rather discuss the bargain and then agree to the principles?
Of course, this gets modified on whether th PC is a grog, companion, or magus. The greater the difference between the two, the less uncomfortable I am at accepting some dice rolls to resolve social actionsmm
So I understand your point and have heard it many times (even made it myself in the past) but let me play Devil's Advocate for a minute. Does this also mean that if a PC attacks another PC with a sword (for whatever reason) the target can simply say "you missed" because he doesn't want the result of the combat to be decided by a dice roll? Or you cast a spell on my companion (because you'd never cast a spell on a fellow magus, right 
) erasing his memories or whatever, and I say "the spell doesn't work" because I don't want that affect on my character?
Yes this is a roleplaying game, and I am a huge fan of resolving things through roleplay. That being said, we have character sheets for a reason and to just ignore them during PC interactions seems wrong to me; otherwise, why do we have character sheets? What about the scenario where you have a PLAYER who is horrible at giving speeches, but he really wanted his CHARACTER to be a great leader so gave him a +5 communication. Do we just ignore the stats on the sheet when he's interacting with PCs because we don't want dice rolled against us?
To answer your question, I would absolutely expect to be swindled by someone with a Bargain of 13 if mine is only a 2; that's exactly what should happen in that instance. Of course in the future I probably wouldn't put my character in a situation where that could happen again (ie. not ever bargain with that person again). But to not be swindled based on the dice roll resulting from those stats is to say that "I don't care how much of your character points you spent to be the best bargainer there is, it doesn't work on me because I don't want it to." And that doesn't seem at all fair to me.
As for this particular situation, I really don't care one way or another. And also, to make it clear, I don't think social rolls should be like mind control. For example, if Talia had succeeded in a Charm roll against Iolair to get busy, that doesn't mean he would have to right then and there in the Revel Hall if that goes completely against his nature. But it would mean that he really wants to and would try to do so somewhere else (which is kind of how I played it anyway).
I left out social when I said interaction. Interaction, discussion, talking. Bargaining and the like. If you cast a spell or otherwise get more aggressive, certainly let's go to the rules and dice that out. But I find it distasteful when a GM says to me, you like the other PCs ideas, when they are clearly only to benefit the other player and offer me nothing. Been there. Done that. If you magic my characters with mentem magics, that's a bit different, but ultimately that's a huge risk that you as a player take on for your character. There are a lot of ways that can come back to bite you. If you want to play that way you're taking on those risks. I know I'm bringing up something that Peregrine would rather not, but Arya, who was in this game at the start and I had a rather lengthy disagreement IC and OOC about our characters joining another saga. She was playing a Merceris Maga, and I was playing a Bonisagus magus, both Jewish. The price for joining the covenant was giving up the voting sigil. She was attempting to bargain out of that with the ability to cast a level 30 Aegis of the Hearth (without penetration in a saga where penetration was required, and was clearly explained up front). It was an asymmetric deal... I fought it. I fought it hard, in and out of character. Yes, her character had RP reasons to not want to give up her sigil. They were valid. But she, either IC or OOC refused to see how just having the ability cat a level 30 Aegis was nearly the same thing as giving up a voting sigil, and that every other PC magus was doing what her character would not do. Asymetric powers between PCs is generally bad, in general.
NPC interactions? The sheet and capabilities can color or shade the underlying statement, but don't offer an completely one-sided arrangement and expect it to be accepted by another PC, because your PC has Com +5 Puissant and Affinity to Bargain with a total of 15 to the die roll. Yes, I can recognize that the deals he offers should and would favor him. I can play that, but I should be able to decide or exercise free will for my characters (again station matters, magus, companion, grog) and not be made beholden to another PC.
And I would expect that for NPCs, but when PCs start preying on each other like that, it's just not a fun game. You want to go PvP? Because that's really what you're doing. You're just doing it with skills other than weapons, Arts and spells. That's not a fun game, in my opinion. I don't want a game where I'm trying to avoid interactions with your character, because he can get Talia to do anything for him, because he's just so gosh darn beautiful. That's what I'm saying. Don't abuse the rolls, let me use the rolls to characterize the interactions. I might say no, but I might say it less definitively or with an opening to come back and discuss it.
And Talia did what she wanted to do; Iolair did what he wanted to do and everyone's happy. On the same token, I could have rolled a charm roll against Iolair. Talia has a tendency to be exceedingly lucky. Some of her rolls in things that she is not well practiced in have been stellar. Like 19+ on some OoH Lore and Code of Hermes rolls, creating situations where she knew more about stuff than what the previous Quaesitor did. And on top of that she can add six to any of her rolls at pretty much anytime (Self Confident). But I don't want luck to characterize PC interactions, either. And those examples of rolls of OoH and Code of Hermes were not against someone else, per se, but were to define what it was reasonable for Talia to know about a given situation, to lend power to her arguments, which I constructed. Those arguments could (and were) then freely ignored by the other player.
So, I'm willing to let the character sheet characterize the interactions, of course. I'm less willing to let the die roll and a competition for something that is social or involves an exchange of resources when that exchange is very obviously favored in the other players favor. I'd prefer and request that those kinds of things get used and adjudicated against NPCs. I'm not really interested in a heavy PvP game.
I did have a nice little response typed up on how I think dice should (or should not) be able to influence or decide PC actions (with regards to social skills), but I see JL pretty much summed it up for me. The dice are an aid in helping you formulate your character's response in some situations, but I'm not going to force you to do (or do not do) something based on a lucky or crappy roll.
And this applies to any interaction involving the use of social skills and PC. Whether it's PC-PC or PC-NPC.
There is one caveat, however: if there's magic of some kind involved, then, yes, than I will either tell you how your character feels or what your character does. If I do that, then it's a pretty safe bet that there's magic happening. Feel free to ask if you have any doubt or whatever.
Oh, and pvp sucks...I didn't enjoy EverQuest nearly as much on the pvp servers.
I'm okay with all of that, but I think the SG will need to occasionally jump in to keep people honest. I get that we don't want "mind control" of other PCs with social skills, but the character sheets should matter. To use JL's example before, if a PC has Bargain 13 and he is doing a deal with a PC with Bargain 2, he should definitely get the better end of the deal, dice or no dice. He is the badass bargainer, and they should play out in the game. Otherwise you're basically telling the player who spent a buttload of his creation/experience points on the Bargain skill that it's completely worthless. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that he should be able to use his Bargain skill for every social interaction there is, and if he abuses it (trying to get too good of deals) then the other PCs just won't deal with him anymore.
Bargain skill of that level is certainly not worthless. There are many other ways it can be used. Taking your argument about PCs not continuing to deal if they are on the receiving end of several bad deals... How would they know?
I think there are plenty of opportunities to use rolls agains NPCs.
If you'd like a reason why Iolair's charm offensive was rebuffed. Her backstory is that of a maga in love with a magus and it ended badly. She's unlikely to engage another magus on his terms, in between the sheets or in the middle of the revel hall. After all, what can Iolair give her that her 12 or more sailors can't?
Homecoming, indeed!
Sorry for taking so long to post...Thanksgiving with the family kept me away from the computer last week.