Remember, Eve will be negotiating a contract of some kind (right?). There will be compelling reasons. For Zoltan i kind of look at it as he's a partisan on the side of the Tremere, a paid expert. Not much love between them, but the money is right.
Right, Eve will probably want a similar high pay if she is to be on permanent no pay call. Either that, or I probably need to start writing up changes to her backstory and have flaws to represent the changes.
No he isn't and no actually they can't. He is promising compensation if the task takes more than a season, but there is no promise the compensation will exceed the costs, nor is there any promise he won't just assign 50 season long tasks. Nor is there any provision that lets you get out of your tasks by leaving the Oppidum or Tribunal.
Sure there is. You can't be compelled to do something by the Praeco of a Tribunal if you leave the Tribunal. I don't think the Tremere are going to bring it up at Grand Tribunal, either.
I think that's the point. Praeco asks for a 50 seasons of service and offers a pittance for it, you leave. The issue is done. The Praeco removed you from the Tribunal (which is the purpose for the request).
Look, you talk of breaking suspension of disbelief. Eve does that for me. As I suggested, call it even and walk away and give the SG the benefit of the doubt as far as doing stuff.
The Tremere believe that magi should be working together for the greater good of all. That is part of their House philosophy. That is why there is a tax to pay for projects. That is why there are these hospitals all over the Tribunal that are run by the Tribunal. That is why no Oppidum/Covenant will be allowed to fail due to lack of resources. Yes, the Tribunal will give the Oppidum the vis needed to cast an Aegis. Yes the Tribunal will help out if you need more things to complete a project. For all that help there is a price.
Zoltan is on a mission from his Primus. But the Tremere will pay for his expertise.
Then they should have no problem actually writing the help they will provide into the contract.
OK, I'm done being nice about this.
This game is not "The Lamech show, starring Eve".
Lamech, you know a lot about this game, that's obvious. You also know a decent amount of Transylvania? Maybe? I'm not sure. Ask yourself why you, Lamech want to play in this [size=150]COOPERATIVE GAME[/size]. Then, come up with some reasonable and entertaining ways to bring in your creation, Eve, into the game, into the Transylvania setting with all its quirks. That is your task. Not ours. Not so much Jebrick's. That is up to you. If you can't, or won't...then why do you want be in this game?
We have tried in every way we know how to get you to join the game, to help you bring in a character that is cohesive, reasonable, and makes some sense. And only with the greatest of efforts have you attempted to do that. The campaign setting, Transylvania: Against the Dark, and Jebrick's particular campaign, is not up to you. Jebrick doesn't need you to make it work, nor does he need your approval. You need to work with us, you need to work with Jebrick if you plan on bringing Eve in. So...I enourage you to stop the second guessing and really start the process of making Eve's story compatible with the stories we are trying to tell in this game. It is a cooperative effort.
Rather than coming back with pithy answers to any of the points I've made, ask yourself: "Why am I (Lamech) the only one getting this harsh and extensive criticism? Why is there 12+ pages for my character, and why is the initial OOC thread mostly me? What can I do, to try and change that? And if I can't or won't change that, then why exactly do I want to play when there is this much resistance to my ideas?"
I've been spending about a half hour writing the same post.
I'll go back and quote my post where you asked for guidance as for your character's narrative and explanation as to why she would come here.
Not really a good reason for any sort of long term game, Eve checks out the rumors and then she has no real reason to stay. Worse, I really only control Eve not the adventure sites. So if I have in my backstory "Eve heard rumors about X". Without Jebrick declaring those rumors have some basis in fact, it goes a little something like this "You go to site X, the rumor has no basis in fact" repeat however many times, or perhaps some sort of random encounter if Mythic Europe is so dangerous as to regularly challenge magi when wandering around aimlessly. (But then I wonder how anyone else does travel.)
Again, the contract has no provision for getting out of tasks by leaving. Adding such a provision would make that whole clause much more workable.
In summary, I have questions: Is this going to be totally non-negotiable? Because then I need to change Eve's flaws to something that represents being stupid enough to sign the contract. Or give her plans for leaving the Tribunal in a hurry, and to find a Tribunal that isn't fond of the Tremere residency requirements. Or decide I'm going to play her in a completely unrealistic manner in regards to this. I'm trying to get some of this stuff hammered out before the phase of making individual contracts comes up. If no one wants to waste in game time on making reasonable contracts we should all agree to that ahead of time. If it is going to be negotiable how much wiggle room will there be?
On top of this, there shouldn't be anger in discussing things. Figuring out potential issues before they come up is a good thing. Its the time to mention things we don't think make much sense. Its also the time we should mention how we might perceive things. Eve doesn't have an major flaw for optimism. She isn't a complete moron when it comes to stuff. So she is going to look sideways at anyone who says "I totally will do, this but I'm not going to put in a contract."
It's probably a well known convention of the Tribunal. The terms aren't used excessively, and never have been, except to drive someone no longer welcome from the Tribunal. Is that easy enough to accept?
That would make it a lot more palpable. It would be even more palpable if leaving the Tribunal was an explicit way to negate the duties. Plus there are Wizard's Wars in other places.
P.S. I can be verbose at time, especially when there is time for discussions.
There is no such clause... but if a magus decides to leave the Tribunal, no one can physically stop him. At least not without breaking the Oath. Not unless he's Marched first, or they declare Wizard's War. In fact leaving a Tribunal would seem to come under the rights protected by the Oath, and if not the Oath there's probably a First or Grand Tribunal ruling on the subject. And besides, this is clearly stated to be a residency contract. The moment the residency ceases, the contract ceases to apply.
AtD says differently. It varies by Tribunal, some will enforce the contract, some declare it void, and some pick and choose.
It says magi can leave at any time. If they were hired for a specific task, he might have to give back vis paid to them, if they didn't fulfill the terms of the contract.
I figure contracts have completion points where vis is considered earned, if it was paid out in advance.
If the Praeco asks you to do something, it's probably outside of the contract.
Eve would probably want that interpretation explicitly written in, if only to avoid potential harassment. Between the optimism, the dearth of WWs, and a convention of not abusing contracts that would put the clause out of "red flag" territory. Eve might still see it as a tool to apply a little pressure, but its TV.
The other change that Eve would want is any original writings or breakthrough points that Eve gives the Tremere a copy of either a) have some sort of negotiated payment mutually agreed upon or b) also have a copy sent to the great library. If that clause is about helping the Order they should have no issue with it. The logic being that spreading new knowledge to everyone benefits the Order, so they don't need to pay, but can always just chose the later. (If they do have an issue with such a change it raises a smallish red flag.) OOC: Of course, that isn't the meta-point of the clause so OOC, I know its sort of a moot point.
It does vary by Tribunal. two that come to mind are Greater Alps and Thebes will vote on kicking people out. It also points out that this is unlikely to come up in a Grand Tribunal because those other Tribunals do not want their laws challenged by people who just do not like them.
Unless Eve is actually writing the best books EVER...she is unlikely going to be able to negotiate from a position of strength with the Tremere. It's their Tribunal. Fair deals can be negotiated certainly, but no one gets to tell them what's what unless they're a rock star. And even then there's limits.
Why don't you spell it out, I tried doing that for my Magus, and the details are still being hammered out. But come up with Eve's demands and see if there's something that can be worked with. The Tremere seem pretty wealthy, they have a whole House and Tribunal in their corner, they can be generous, but they're not just going to give it away.
The Praeco tells Eve to go pound salt. You do not like the restrictions then do not come in. Tribunal policy is not open to discussion by non civi or non socii. You must EARN the right to get those things.
The clause in question is not in the personal contracts. It is in the Oppidum charter. All Oppida have this clause.
Cool, but this still raises two red flags. Claiming that such work is for the good of the Order, but refusing to let it benefit the Order means they are lying. Or they have begun to equate the Order with House Tremere, which is far, far worse. Saying that you believe in a certain interpretation, but not actually writing it into a contract will look to anyone with an ounce of sense to be lying. Both of those things would make Eve much less trusting, and more protective and assertive of things like her sanctum rights. Its also going to mean she will look for a way to make a quick get away, just in case.