2.0 Covenant Design Thread

Mirrors aren't really as common in the historical era as I would like. Having a large mirror in a room would draw a lot of attention, is the main problem that I can think of. I think of Regios as naturally occurring events. I like the idea of the magical mirror making it easier to get into the Regio, but not actually being the door itself.

Stupid math. Stupid delays.

Chico, I don't even know how many players are still active in the game, but I do know that only 450 build points have been spent so far. I'm going to take a head count before deciding on whether you get to spend the 300.

Right, but you'll have to be able to pay the income to support the character specialists, and specialists paid for by the point system may become characters in their own right, if the story so demands.

Would the covenant have had anti-demon spells before they knew about the Infernalism?

S'okay, wound up not bringing in any new npc with Cygna's 150 points anyway.

They might have...depends on whether Phoenix had to deal with the Infernal before the rampant (?) diabolism was brought to light recently. I know my old gaming-group Ars campaign had a few demonic encounters. If you want me to, I can redistribute those points.

Let me rephrase:

Every choice makes part of the story. You may either redistribute the points, or the back history of the covenant includes dealings with a demon unrelated to the primary plotline. If the second, it may or may not come up in future stories.

Is this the final list of Boons, Hooks, etc?

I believe it is.

Tis fine by me :smiley:

have we got enough labs?
looks fine otherwise!

Peregrine spent some of his 300 Build Points adding one (THANK YOU PEREGRINE!!) However, I think we're still short two. Roll call of magi!

Jamie Lannister - Flambeau
Cygna - Bjor
Hiems - Ex Misc
Serrano - Ex Misc
Severus - Guernicus
Viscaria - Verditii
Constantine Amos - Flambeau

Did I miss anyone? Berengeur (Radagast) is out, right? Or you still floating out there, Radagast? :slight_smile:

Ya know, it might almost be an interesting story idea if we're short just one lab or one lab exists outside of the covenant building itself, but still in the area.

My reasoning on the labs was that there were four magi in Phoenix before, thus the base four labs, and then a "guest lab"...mainly because we're (in-character) coming into an existing covenant. If Amul wants to go with a lab for each current magus...don't have to twist my arm too hard to agree :slight_smile:

I haven't spent any built points yet.

So what do we need (I am slightly disoriented on who has and hasn't pent build points)?

Labs?
People?
Books?
Vis?
Vis sources?
Casting tablets?

And just to get this right: I get another 150 bps to spend on stuff my character brings, right?

I tried to follow Peregrine's excellent lead, although I feel I wasn't as good.

Still, my proposition for the covenant (Hiems possession will come later):

Books (Total 135 points):

  • The Crushing of Hope (30 points)
    Summa; Q 20; L10; Topic: Perdo; Language: Latin; Author: Nayan ex Flambeau
  • To Rule over the Mortal Realm (30 points)
    Summa; Q 20; L10; Topic: Rego; Language: Latin; Author: Sylvain Ex Bonisagus
  • Bonisagus Greatest Wonder (35 points)
    Summa; Q 11; L8; Topic: Parma Magica; Language: Latin; Author: Jérôme ex Bonisagus
  • How to Ward against Spirits (30 points)
    Summa; Q 15; L 15; Topic: Vim; Language: Latin; Author: Herman Ex Tremere
  • How to Obliviate Demons (10 points)
    Tractatus; Q 10; Topic: Demon's Eternal Oblivion; Language: Latin; Author: Cersei Lannister of Flambeau

Lab Texts (Total 28 points):

  • Seven-League Stride ReCo30
  • Gentle Caress of Aesclepius CrCo30
  • Hauberk of Sublime Lightness PeTe30
  • Invisible Sling of Vilano ReTe10
  • Demon's Eternal Oblivion PeVi10
  • Aura of Rightful Authority ReMe 20
  • Sight of the Transparent Motive InMe 10

Vis Source (Total 25 points):

  • Corpus: 5 pawns per yer
    Physical Form: Blood flowing from a stone rumored to be the only remain of a petrified giant; Location: Covenant; Seasons: Winter

Vis Stocks (Total 20 points):

  • Vim: 100 pawns

Enchanted Items (Total 42 points):

  • Gate of the Dead
    Creator: Herman ex Tremere; Created: Spring 1178
    Effect Name: Question the Spirit of the Dead InCo(Me) 30
    Effect Details: R: Arc, D: Conc, T: Ind, Frequency: 1/day, Item maintains concentration;
    As "Whispers through the Black Gate", but needs only an arcane connection to the dead
    Design: Base 5, +1 Conc, +4 Arc, + 5 items maintains concentration, final level 35
  • Wand of Warning
    Creator: Salamandrus Ex Flambeau; Created: Summer 1201
    Effect Name: Thunderous Lights CrIm 25
    Effect Details: R: Sight, D: Diam, T: Group, Frequency: 24/day
    Create an image that affects two senses: Creates a groupe of Huge bright lights, with accompaning heavy sounds
    Design: Base 2, +1 Diam, +2 Group, +3 Sight, +1 Extra Size, +5 frequency, final level 30
  • Pool of Healing Waters (Everyone thinks the waters of the small pool in Phoenix depths can speed up healing, but that's a lie: This is actually a small stone statue hidden in the room, but the covenant keeps up the mystery)
    Creator: Tyrion Lannister; Created: Spring 1206
    Effect Name: Speed the Closure of Wounds CrCo 35
    Effect Details: R: Touch, D: Moon, T: Room, Frequency: 24/day
    Give a character a +12 bonus to Recovery rolls
    Design: Base 5, +3 Moon, +2 Room, +1 Touch, +5 frequency, final level 40

Let me see... 135 + 28 + 25 + 20 + 42 = 250... Ah, yes!!!

Extra lab (another one!) 50 points

Yup.

Sorry, but nope. The point is to use the 300 bps/player to create the covenant as it existed and then expand it through RP. Keep in mind that Viscaria can build buildings and equip labs like nobody's business, though. Add to that your Legendary wealth levels and the incoming trader companion(s?), and it is mostly going to be a matter of spending time and RP to get whatever building stuff you want.

As near as I can tell from my last scan through this thread, Peregrine is the only one who has actually spent points. Which is lucky for him, since there are apparently way more players than I first counted, so the rest of you are probably going to get fewer build points to spend.

Labs? We have 5 labs currently, after Peregrine's points
People? We need to collect these on the wiki to get a better sense, but I'm pretty sure we're missing a bunch.
Books? Again, need to collect these on the wiki to get a better sense
Vis? We should probably be pretty low on that anyway, so soon after Toloso
Vis sources? AFAIK, the only ones outlined so far are the grapevines.
Casting tablets? Always useful.

Oooh. Fix just posted more points while I was typing this up! And he's been adding flavor to the pre-historical NPCs, too! Good job, fix!

I'm always hesitant about the idea of books on Parma Magica. Far too easy to get stolen, and far too precious a secret of the magi. Granted, books in 1212 AD are a far different proposition than books in 2010, so I try to believe that it makes sense, but still....unless someone gives me a strong argument otherwise, I'm going to make a house rule that books on Parma Magica which are known to the Order always have some kind of protection to them. You can either pay points for enchanting the book's wards, or the no-points option is....what? Some kind of elaborate code? Some critical missing component which is only revealed at the passing of the Gauntlet?

I see another book and spell focused on Demons, albeit low powered ones. Please remember that the back history only includes demons during the last year or so. Before that, Phoenix Covenant was dedicated to protecting Islamic culture from the Reconquista for nearly 50 years.

Do we have a Harry Potter fan in the house? This is cool! Do you have some back history on Herman ex Tremere, or did you just make up the name? If the latter, I'd like to work him into the back history of Rafus and Phoenix.

Another excellent item, though I question the 24 uses/day (meaning, Viscaria would probably make it with fewer). If people need to spend a few extra points on things, I would encourage there to be a large-ish pile of these for patrols and whatnot.

It is tempting to suggest that it creates the image of a large Phoenix in the sky. "Pointy Lights, Ice-Man Heims! It's the Phoenix Symbol! To the Phoenix Car!"

Genius! And perfect for Tyrion.

Hrm....that'd bring us up to 6 labs for 4 magi. Granted, they were Legendarily wealthy, so....perhaps a specialty lab of some kind which was used by everybody?

Regardless, no more labs. Future point spenders, please focus on turning Phoenix into a haven for protecting non-Christian culture from the Reconquista.

Fixer, I think your healing item might be problematic. First of all it causes warping. Secondly, this could be avoided by using target individual and unlimited uses. Then, a nurse has to touch each person with the item when the duration ends.

If you wonder: I wanted to have the stuff in one place

Um...so far contributions have been posted by me (and tyvm for the compliment...I try very hard to be awesome), The Fixer, and...um....scrolls up Yeah.
Labs: I'm okay with either spending points on more "guest" labs that the new magi can co-opt, or having some people get stuck with having to build a new lab from scratch in-character.
Books would be good. Books are always good. One book that I think would make sense is an ability summa on viticulture and/or viniculture. Or possibly we can have the widow of the old winemaker (or even the winemaker himself if he was unable to go off to war)
Vis: The Fixer just banked 100 pawns of Vim...but more Vis is always good.
Vis Sources: ditto, on the more = better theory.
Casting Tablets: I had actually forgotten all about them until you posted this. Tracked them down in Covenants, saw how much they cost, and was like wtf? Really? Then I reread what they can do and settled down a little bit. Yeah, they cost twice as much as lab texts, and they are very inflexible...but you can cast a spell that's way beyond your normal means if you're willing to push yourself to exhaustion and maybe rise Warping.

And afaik, the 150 points per magus is still out there (I used it for stuff that Cygna brought with her, partly for the covenant's edification and partly for her own use down the road, because that's how I thought it was supposed to be), but I'd have to read Amul's post that came up while I was working on this to be sure. (I'm feeling particularly wordy today for some reason).

Reducing per capita allowance makes sense. How many covenant build points?
How many build points brought by character?
Do companion characters cost build points?

My ideas for bp spending:

  • a full scribal team (3 specialists)
  • a translator (teacher)
  • few spells: my character is interested in quaesitorial spells (which Duresca won't share with us), many important ones have already been added
  • books: mostly academic stuff (e.g. lores and laws), COH, OOHL
  • a portable vis source (you'll see!)
  • lab improvement (I hereby lay claim to a lab)
  • some items (if I've got the built points)

Keep the 150 for each magi, and other limitations as discussed previously. Companions do not cost build points....should grogs be paid for as specialists? That's always a nebulous area for me.

Consider my mention of possibly reducing the covenant build points as a threat. If you don't spend the 300 on the covenant soon, you might not get to contribute at all. I'm aiming for a total around 1750 build points, including incoming magi contributions. We're at 750 so far.

I want to get this party started, and it feels like covenant creation is the hold up.

Given the Divided Loyalties hook, you may decide what ethnicity your specialists are, or leave that to me.

Alternatively, instead of a statue, you have to stand in the center of the pool and ask for a blessing (actually, a stone slab on the pool bed with an activation phrase). Or some other sneaky misdirected magic.

Good one.
I'll think about it, probably add an enchantment
IMO, such books should all have a basic security, like a code requiring some knowledge of Hermetic Magic Theory to be understood (say, Int + MT 5, which should be OK for almost all new magi, yet unreadable for non-hermetics).
Then, I don't see enchantments being nescessarily spend on them (esecially if the library is already protected), but this may be more or less common. IMO, though, it may be a common practice for the covenants to keep an AC to their Parma books.

Oups!
I was unclear.
It was supposed to be a tractatus on DEO Mastery, written by one of the Deceased Phoenix magi (the author name comes from your list) following the covenant troubles, but before his death. But one year seems too short, so unless he died recently, I'll scrap it.

Well, no special backstory. As usual, I just thought "necromancer", let my ideas flow somewhat and pictured a rugged and unclean Tremere. So please, use him up!!! :smiley:

Well, the uses/per was just me being lazy and going for a round count :wink:

But the Phoenix image is awesome, especially as we have a screech! This could strike fear into our ennemies even before they attack! Although :laughing: the phoenix car :laughing:

Oh, I thought we were gonna be short of them anyway, so this seemed like a good point sink.
I'll be happy to scrap it and replace it with other things (such as a protective parma enchantment, and probably mundane books or spells).

Good one, I had overlooked it. I'll change it.
I know the design to be suboptimal, it's just that I had this idea of a healing pool and had to make do with it... Although... Could the water itself be enchanted??? There's nothing going against it, and there's the precedent of the Ink of Hermes, yet it seems strange. What do you guys think about it?

By the RAW, no, but as I made 2 useful high-level grog-level characters for the 9 people that came with Hiems, I intend to pay for them with specialist points.
This is just me, though :laughing:

Edited all the characters in the Grogs thread to include religion 8)

Nice one, I'll think about it :smiley:

300 pt Spend - Getting it in before it's taken away!

Okay, here's my reasoning for expenditures. These are four Legendarily Wealthy Magi. What made them so wealthy? Did they already come from robust and rich covenants? I decided (and can be vetoed by Amul) that, since we're basically building these people, the Lannisters (Jamie, Cersei, and Tyrion) and primary Tremere friend Piotr Byrlaesh were an established, RICH magus family and covenant that were brought in primarily to back and banker Rafus. After expanding his base of contacts and resources, their departure for "conflicts of interest" would not severely hurt his relationship with his Cult, so Rafus let them go, planning to get revenge on them later for their abandonment. Unfortunately, he never got around to his vengeance before his (Rafus's) house of cards collapsed around him.

So, what would a rich, well-off group of magi be looking for? They've had access to plenty of books from their previous wealthy covenants, so they wouldn't have many primers (low level) books for Arts, and the few Ability Books they brought might be fairly esoteric based on their individual interests. They would wish to continue being comfortable in the eyes of their Society (magi) so it would need to be a location rich in resources. And preferably, somewhere their covenfolk could live well and not bother them too much.

This was to be a Haven, a place of rest and seperated from the battles and conflicts over religion and race for Moors and Muslims. Somewhere secluded and self-sufficient so, like a turtle, they could tuck into their own shells if needed to wait out large conflicts (like the Battle of ***********, will edit to correct battle name).

Side Note with 7 points spent on a Vineyards Manager specialist, I just had a neat idea - the current specialist is the WIFE of the old Vineyards manager that has taken over the job. Her Ability is still so high because she is "ghostly warded" and advised by her husband who died in the battle but returned to make sure she was okay and ended up staying (covered by the Boon we already have).

With this idea in mind, I leaned HEAVILY on Vis Sources (if they burned most of their vis and resources in the battle, why do they still have a stockpile of 100 Vim Vis? Did they have too much Vim vis and only sent what was feasibly carried?) and avoided anything but specialized books. And, of course, we have 3 Flambeau, so I added 1 Ignem book. :slight_smile: Here's what I got

Side Note I will edit in names and titles later - I'm at work and can't do it now)

Arts Summae Total: 30 pts
30 Ignem L20 Q10 Prometheus's Gift: Blessing or Curse? by Fawkes V ex Tytalus
Abilities Summae Total: 35 pts
35 Penetration L8 Q11 Choosing your Target Wisely (as in usually the Dragon's a Bad Idea) by Scaramouche ex Miscellanea
Tractacttii Total: 30 pts
10 Magic Theory Q10 Stripping the Mysteries to its Basics by Scarmouche ex Criamon (yes, same magus - earlier point in that Mage's life)
10 Penetration Q10 Reaching the Heart by Piotr Byrlaesh ex Tremere
10 Perdo Q10 All Things Return to Dust by Jamie Lannister ex Flambeau
10 Perdo Q10 Even Dust Can Be Destroyed by Cersei Lannister ex Flambeau

Vis Sources Total: 115 pts
15 Creo 3 pawns, Spring -

15 Perdo 2 pawns, Fall - During the Festival of Sacrifice (Eid ul-Adha) on the 10th day of the 12th month of the Islamic calendar, several animals are slaughtered and the meat distributed amongst many - the covenant is known to invite other townships to partake or even to ship the food to close areas in need. Piotr Byrlaesh helped set up a magnificent slaughter stone platform with a firepit in the middle, blood grooves and head holes to assist in draining, and finely crafted blades inset into special areas on the table that conform with Dhabihah. The day is accompanied by a feast and festival around or in relation to the stone platform. In actuality, the slaughter meets with Islamic traditions but Piotr secretly added into the festival the practices of the Cult of Mithra from Old Rome. The Cult of Mithra acts to purify and cleanse the blood drained from the animals, and actually collected in areas beneath the stone platform. The firepit in the middle and the festival dancing lay the foundation for the blood to be boiled off, leaving behind blood dust and, surprisingly, 2 red crystals containing Perdo vis.

5 Rego 1 pawns, Spring

10 Aquam 2 pawns, Spring - Every spring the torrential rains and snow melts from upriver raise the level of the Guadiana. Flotsam and trash are always washed down from further upstream to get caught around the rocks and bends near the Covenant (about a half mile downstream), forming a dam and barrier. Every year, the covenfolk wade out into the rocks and waters to knock loose this trash since the increased water level begins waterlogging the soil and damaging the natural irrigation setup Old Man Mustafa(the old vineyard manager) had setup. The rocks themselves are slime-covered and in no way secure so it is easy to slip amongst them. Mixed within the trash is always several chunks of ice washed into the river from the mountain and still melting. The ice is almost supernaturally sharp and always submerged, which makes the task doubly difficult as it is easy to step on and accidently slice a foot artery, or fallen upon after slipping on a rock. In the past, people have been maimed or died after being sliced by these ice caltrops. The covenfolk prefer to wait until mid-spring near the point when the river is barely spilling over its bank, the water has warmed, the ice has all melted, and already washed downstream. However, the magi would like the covenfolk to clear the stream earlier and collect the ice chunks. Although most of the ice is dirty, misshapen, and pointed, there are always two perfectly formed tetrahedronal ice crystals pyramids that fit in a small child's two arms which are actually Aquam vis. On rare occasions these ice crystals wash down early and are nowhere to be found.

10 Corpus 2 pawns, Winter

5 Herbam 1 pawns, Fall

5 Terram 1 pawns, Summer

50 Vim 1 rook, Fall - can be smashed/broken in a specific pattern into 10 Vim pawns but requires a Dexterity+Finesse roll of +9. It can be transferred magically into new vessels normally. This sources is listed in the Covenant resources, but no details or manner of collection is given. If Jamie is asked, he states Cersei used to bring back a crescent stone mini-obelisk liberally covered in oil. It would have to be repeatedly dipped in oil or other lubricant and kept unexposed from air until the magi were ready to smash it or transfer the vis. He has no idea where she got it. There may be more details in her room or journal, but he is very reluctant to go rooting through her stuff or to let anyone else do so, for that matter. (He has already given up on the idea of keeping her lab pristine.)

Specialists Total: 30 pts
30 Points to be divided amongst 3 specialists
17 -(+2Com +7Teach +8Single Weapon) Weaponsmaster - Teacher. Abdul Fati bin Saladin, Captain, a Malmut that won acclaim and victory - but lost his left arm - in Saladin's Conquest of Jerusalem in 1189 - purchased and retired to Phoenix to train/teach shield grogs and turbs. Usually taught two students at a time. He has been called out of retirement after the death of most/all of his students at the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa.
6 - (6 Animal Handling) Veterinarian/Animal Doctor. Farihah al-Kasim, a wandering goat-herd widow that settled in the hills north of the Phoenix Covenant. After helping deliver a breech birth cow on one of her visiting trade trips, she has moved close enough to run to the protection of the Covenant when needed, in return for assisting in any special care of the animals at the Covenant. She also helps supervise the slaughter of animals to make sure they are healthy and follow the rules of Dhabihah.
7 - (7 Profession: Blacksmith) Large (maybe Giant-blooded) Blacksmith. Noland (Naomi) Sepharad, a Jewish friend of Abdul Fati that accompanied him to Phoenix. Once a producer of swords and armor, he now happily produces nails, plows, nails, barrel rings, nails, hinges, nails, pots, pans, and nails. Okay, so he might not be so happy about the nails. Largely isolated for being an Outsider amongst Muslims, the few possible liaison attempts by daughters and widows were politely rebuffed. He seems to have no interest in females. Noland did not accompany the forces to Las Navas de Tolosa due to an illness and fever from exhaustion after staying up for five days helping prepare for the expedition. A moon later, when she was ready, it was too late.

30+35+40+115+30 = 250

Holy cornucopia! So, looks like we're looking at 6 pawns in the Spring, 10 in the Summer, 16 in the Fall, and 5 in the Winter. We almost need one mage (or a failed apprentice..."Claudia! Fetch!") just to harvest all this bounty.