2 more rules questions

Question 1:
Some archetypes have limited action-values at the beginning
like [max 13] or (=14) for example. Thus you gotta stuck with
those values even if the sum of base attribute and skill bonus
exceeds the limit. That's ok during character creation. But how
to handle it when spending expierence points ?

Example: John Smith is a professional k... uhm.. businessman..
well.. at the beginning he got Dex 8 and guns +10,
but due to the limit his AV is only 15, not 18.

Now, after several 'jobs' he gained enough expierence to
increase his skill bonus. Does the player have to ignore that Dex 8
and guns +10 and simply pay 16 EXP for the new AV 16 ?

What if he increases his Base Attributes ?

Question 2:
"Golden Comeback" introduces us to the "wreck" rules.
Guns do, depending on their type, a constant wreck damage of 1 or 2,
rockets and grenades do 4 wreck damage.
Ramming a vehicle does wreckdamage equal to the drive-drive outcome.
Driving certain vehicles gives a bonus on ramming damage,
like modern tank (40+ountcome), so does a tanks gun (x+outcome).

It seems some weapons/vehicles do a constant wreck damage, while
others use or add the outcome.

In an adventure I am currently preparing I'd like to make use
of certain heavy weapon systems. Thus I'd like to know if there is any
rule I can decide upon, if a certain type of weapon adds the outcome to
the wreck damage or not.

As far as I'm aware, your guess is correct: You pay experience points equal to the new action value to achieve the new action value, even though the attribute + skill bonuses technically = more than the new action value. The effective guideline — again, as far as I'm aware — is that you never use your attributes to "re-derive" an action value after character creation. You just progressively increase your action values using experience points.

I don't think you can use experience points to increase your attributes. At least, I don't find any rules for that in the Getting Tougher chapter.

I'm not positive I understand this question. If the question is this...

"Is there some general rule that tells you which kind of vehicle damage sources do constant damage, and which kind do outcome+constant damage?"

...then I belive that the answer is no, there is no general rule, the GM basically wings it. If the question is something else, could you re-phrase the question?

Hope these help!

You can increase your attributes, when you are attuned to a Feng Shui
site. It's described in the section "benefits of attunement" (page 161).

I plan to play without the original Feng Shui background, thus no
Feng Shui sites. But increasing Attributes is expensive.. so I guess
it's ok when I allow it.

Thanks for the answers. That was my question.

Anyway.. I am not overly happy with the wreck rules at all.
Before I had them, I handled vehicles similar to characters or
just described what happened to them. When an average mook
controlled car had suffered 10 points of normal damage, it became
a spectacular piece of trash. Other vehicles could suffer more or
less damage, depending on the type and who was driving it
(I am used to keep track of damage for multiple opponents, thus
it was no problem for me).

I'm torn between using the official, balanced (!?) ruleset and using
my incomplete and perhaps flawed homebrewn rules...

Put it this way (with regards to = AVs) -

When you've got your character all done, you should REDUCE the skill bonus so that the attribute + skill bonus equal the AV. There is then no discrepancy between those numbers and the AV.

That sounds like a pretty good idea to me. It will definitly bring an end to the confusion.

I thought raising attributes does also raise Skill AVs. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much sense in raising Agility and such. The book doesn't say anything specific about it, though.

I certainly hope for Feng Shui's advancement system to be revised in a potential Second Edition. :wink:

Since skills are based on secondary attributes (with the exception of shaping) and you add these two values together for determining the final value your AV increases when you increase your attribute.


I thought the same. It's hardly compelling evidence, but the character sheet has both base and bonus columns. If the base doesn't matter after character creation, then it should NOT be on the character sheet. If you increased your attribute, but it didn't modify skills, the base value on the sheet would no longer match your attribute... and that would be kind of odd.

I'm disturbed that if Jeff is correct, I've always played the game incorrectly. But, um, Jeff didn't think you could increase attributes.

Personally I think that increasing attributes is unbalanced... well, much more valuable... than raising skills. So long as you don't have a secondary attribute above a primary, increasing the primary gives you a bonus to ALL linked skills as well as helping in other ways. (e.g. buying up Chi would improve your Magic skill; it would also give you another Chi point for fu schticks, if you also had those, and give you a fortune point to spend on a roll.)

p. 184, "Benefits of Attunement", paragraph 6:
"When you raise a primary attribute, its secondary attributes increase only when they are less than or equal to the primary attribute."

[color=darkblue](Emphasis mine.)

P. 39, "Skill Numbers", paragraph 1:

"To get your Action Value for a given Skill, you add the Skill Bonus to the Base Attribute."

[color=darkblue]So, from extrapolation, raising attributes does raise skill AVs, if the secondary attribute the skill's based on goes up.

If my Reflexes attribute raises, then it completely depends on how high my Dexterity score is. See, If I'm a gunbunny type, like a Special Forces or Cop or Assassin character, then I've probably already added my attribute bonuses from PC creation to my secondary attribute of Dexterity. If my Dex score is higher then my Ref score, then rasing the primary attribute will have no effect on my Guns AV.

My Maverick Cop gets to add 3 points to a primary attribute and 2 points to a secondary attribute during char gen. I make My Reflexes 7, but pump my Dex up from that 7 (based on my new Ref score) to "9".

Guns is based on Dex, not on Ref. So even if I later bump my Ref up to 8, that won't affect my Dex, so it doesn't affect my Guns AV.

But it's all irrelevent if you're not using Feng Shui Site rules, because you can't raise attributes without site attunement.

It's still a clear answer and I appreciate it.

Thank you Sensi!

Raising a skill by 1 = new AV in experience points
Raising an primary attribute by 1 = new value x 4 in experience points.

To raise a Reflex 7 / Guns 15 - Charakter to an AV of 16, it would cost 17 or 32 XP.


I think you mean 16 or 32.

Yeah, I know. Raising Reflexes, though, gives you initiative and martial arts, too. Raising Body lets you soak more damage and dish out more in hand-to-hand.

Hmm... that doesn't seem that bad...

Don't forget, that the ablitiy to raise attributes requires attunement
to a Feng Shui site.