A Fan's Dream: Ars Books I'd like to see

Truth is, in this dire economy, the best I've got is a part-time low wage job. I've budgeted for one book every two weeks. So far, I've got 12 Ars Books. I still need 3 more RoP books, the three HoH books, C&G, and L&tL before I'll be satisfied with my collection. Plus, there are several 4th edition books I'd like to have (the levant book first and foremost) and I'm excited about the upcoming grogs and transalyvania books.

Once my books shelf is groaning under that weight, I will start buying whatever back-stock and new mags I can get my hands on, as the reviews I've read on here sounded like they've got some great articles.

The reason I started this thread is that a) I thought it might be a fun change of topic from the usual arguments over rules-details and b) I know that the publication cycle takes a few years, by which my collection should be complete.

If sub rosa folks or anyone else wants to pick up on the seed of an idea I put on here and run with it, great, that's fair use of a public domain comment, not theft of my IP, as far as I'm concerned.

If the book gets bogged down in a lot of dry details of nobility and politics that are unlike to ever come into play, it wouldn't be very useful. If it was framed specifically as a snapshot of Europe in 1220, it would suffer from the limited-utility-in-a-long-term-campaign problem. Still, a comprehensive overview book might be handy. To avoid rehashing info already published in tribunal books, it could put an emphasis on political power groups - trading houses, crusading orders, dynasties such as the line descended from Elanor of Acquitaine, and the more exotic groups that exist in ME - that span multiple kingdoms/tribunals. Again, a book like this with more setting info helps to tie together the more build-your-own books like A&A and LoM into a campaign.

Yes, that would be great. 2nd edition DnD had one called "the campaign sourcebook and catacombs guide" that was one of the best books for that line. The CyberPunk 2020 version of this book had the brilliant title "Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads" and it was one of my favorite books for that line as well. Chapters written by different veteran GM's, expanding on various aspects of the game - how to get a group of pc's together, how to manage a campaign, how to adjudicate a gun battle, etc.

Ars Magica is such a rich tapestry, even a person like myself, with 20 years of gaming xp but no previous ars experience, could really use a book like that. And done well enough, it might even shake up the expectations of longtime players and sg's who just never thought of some ways the game could be played.

I think the same argument could be made for the tribunal books, but that's just not the case. ME is similar to RE, but often the same mundane story has a supernatural cause in ME, like the ground beneath Anatolia shaking due to bound titans, or the sacking of Constantinople due to infernal influence on both sides.

Dang, really? I thought that was the best idea I've seen on here! A book on medieval crime and punishment would be a fitting companion to A&A, C&G, and LoM. You could call it (those familiar with American syndicated TV will get the joke) "Law & Order: Mythic Europe Unit."

But seriously, I think a book like this would be great and useful. I don't think it would be unworkable, even with the patchwork of criminal cultures and legal systems across Europe. Most/all legal systems (including Hermetic!) descend from Roman and/or Germanic traditions.

One way to organize the book would be by legal tradition - common, civil, cannon, and hermetic. Much as was done with noble titles in LoM, generic information that is broadly applicable to most of ME could be discussed, and then noteworthy diferences in various tribunals/regions could follow.

Another way to organize the book would be to focus each chapter on a specific category of crime (organized, smuggling, arson, murder, etc) detailing how it happens in ME and how it is investigated/prosecuted/punished.

PC's have a tendency to do less-than-legal things and run afould of authorities. Details of the consequences and considerations of mythic possibilities would definately help me as an SG.

My second idea alluded to in my first post was similar. I would love to see a book with more information on hermetic crime/punishment. I was imagining a book similar to hermetic projects, with 6-12 hypothetical hermetic crimes documented in detail, allowing players to become involved as perps, victims, investigators, or judges.

There was a book which had the various noblemen of each kingdom listed. It was Ordo Nobilis and it showethe limits of that approach. Too little context to make stories from the data. The book was most useful for fact checkinif you alread y had a story in mind and wanted the name, but no other details of. particular person. This is a really preWikipedia way of filling a book.

My wishlist

Venice
Egypt
Redone with new Founders
Renaissance or Age of Exploration
Subsaharan Africa
More focus on companions and aids to writing stories where they are pivotal

Oh, and Sicily.

Everyone should check out Wikipedia for names, dates, and biographical and event summaries. It's more accurate than it's sometimes given credit for, certainly adequate for a game, and usually gives references to further sources for the serious student.

I'd also love to see material like this that goes off canon. We've been pounding away at the established 1220 setting for too long now. Personally I want pre-1000ce material.

Agreed. Wikipedia has been hugely useful to my game design. Whether I'm setting my game in 1220 Gascony or 1971 Cambodia, it usually has enough info to make the setting believable for my players.

But it doesn't have characteristics and Mythic Posibilities. Sure, I don't need a list of English barons, but several of them statted out in various ways would be handy.

Venice would be great (all of the above would be great). With my players having met Enrico the Venetian and heard about their role in the sacking of Constantinople, Venice is shaping up as a hive of scum and villany. I'm sure they'd love to pursue Enrico back to his hometown at some point.

Sub-saharan Africa and age of exploration would be great, but how about a medieval age of exploration? I'd love to see a book about exploration beyond the belt of fire and water. This has always been an area of historical interest for me. A&A left me a little concerned about replicating some historical expeditions. How is Ibn Batta going to reach Timbuktu? How is Mansa Musa of Mali going to be able to make his hajj to Mecca?

I can think of at least 4 great voyages or land explorations beyond mythic europe that I'd love to see detailed, as adventures for Europeans, or settings a la C&C.

  • searching for the kingdom of Prester John beyond the Sahara (I know about the older book, wasn't a huge fan of that treatment).
  • Following in the footsteps of Leif Erickson, Brenden the Navigator, and Madoc of Wales, sailing west.
  • Travel to Mythic India across the indian ocean (if the Romans could do it, and the arabs are doing it, why can't we?)
  • travel to mythic china across the Steppes. There were a whole bunch of historical contemparies of Marco Pollo who are interesting, and the mythic posibilities seem endless.

When you look at Jews in India, Arabs in the south china sea, Nestorian Christians in China, and vikings in the new world, its obvious that the "age of exploration" was proceeded by a whole lot of travel between continents. Delve a little further into crypto-history and you get black africans in Central America, Chinese visits to Australia, and even more facinating mythic possibilities....in historical 1220, the Mississipian mound-builder culture is reaching its height, figuratively and literally, building great ziggernauts to their one-god, represented by a cross. Are they led by Madoc's descendents?

Oh gosh, you mean that one isn't in the works? With grog and apprentices coming out the pipeline, I just assumed that was somewhere behind them. An apprentices-length book about companions would be great, with as you mention, a focus on how to use them as more than just servants for lazy lab rats.

No idea, frankly...David would know, but he won't tell anyone until the time is right in his cunning plan. 8)

I've been playing a bit of Dr Who recently, and I've quite liked the way it balances out the Doctor and his companions. I think the key to it is removing combat. Without combat, the companions are a lot more important. You'd think it would be less, but not so much, IMO.

If the country you play in makes anything resembling "De Bosatlas Van De Geschiedenis Van Nederland" I'd advise to buy it. This works its way up from the first inhabitants to now. This does not only tell us what lies ahead, but also what came before our time, thus giving me a few footholds for ghost stories or mythic places. This, however, is probably too big a project for Atlas games, this one for instance costs 120 euro's, and while it does fan out to europe and the world to provide context, it is so brilliant just because it details not much more then a 200 km radius around our covenant.

I'd like for the hermetic projects to be a PDF as well, since I do think I'd read it less often then other books, and the difference between print and digital was just the difference between a purchase and not for this book.

I second the beastiary, with maybe, however cheesy it is, a gauge on how hard it would be for characters of different ages to handle it.

I know what you mean, but the Might Score is a pretty good indication. Only your troupe know whether they're prepared to face a Might 20 Infernal Boar head-on. And what about that wrathful Divine Eagle, also Might 20? Are they just as prepared?

One thing that really impresses me about Pathfinder and D&D is that you are able to present fully scaled encounters to your players knowing that there's a challenge without being overwhelming. But Ars Magica doesn't (yet) work like that. It doesn't need to.

I would like to see a new bestiary. I'd like to see it filled with beasts, plants, stones, all of virtue and of the realms. Interesting vis sources and/or extraordinary vis. And I'd like solid story suggestions on using them in a saga.

I'd actually prefer it the other way around.

Also I also want to throw in a strong vote for a Venice book!

It might be us, but we encounter things with low might but powerful mundane qualities and the other way around, which makes it harder to see how hard it is. This might just be our alpha GM's way to trigger our problem solving.

When I buy a location (tribunal ) book I want to be able to run a saga there without having to go and dig academic texts on the setting. As such,. I have always found that the sparse information provided for future events dfoes not cover well my needs. We tend to oplay 100 to 50 years BEFORE the date in the book precisely because of that. We find that by the time we really interact with the Order at large 50-70 years have passed from our starting date. major events during this period are also well detailed, and can be built into turning points for our saga. We prefer this "things will be like the book says unless you do something to change them" approach than "everything will change because you will do stuff" approach.

having said that, I would like the opposite to yair: a low magic setting where the order of hermes is basically nonexistent and where folk witches are the top of the (magical) food chain. Vitkir, mupelli or natural magicians would be too powerful for that setting.

Cheers,
Xavi

Isn't this what City & Guild, Art & Academe, The Church, Lords of Men are? They provide a plethora of information for traditional companion roles: craftsmen, merchants, scholars, alchemists, physicians, entertainers, artists, friars, priests, peasants, knights, and nobles. For that matter you could add in Hedge Magic and the Realms of Power books to get witches, saints, the faerie blooded, magic kin, the corrupt, etc. While I'm sure there are concepts out there that remain untouched, it seems like we've got covered the majority of companion concepts in pretty good detail.

Mark

Shameless plug. Look away now.

The Companion Piece articles in Sub Rosa present fully detailed companion characters that each highlight those very books, explaining how to approach them and how to get the most out of the character and their associated rules. Those books each present some great rules for companions and the articles try to highlight them.

Worth a look if you haven't already.

Okay, on with the discussion...

FORBIDDEN MAGICS!

We have send Ancient Magic, and Rival Magic, and Legends of Hermes.How about a book on magic that would be forbidden by the Order of Hermes.

I am not talking about anything as crude as Demonism.

I am thinking of unusual lines of research that would be banned if it was discovered and the researching Mage Marched.

For example
mass mind control spell
Drawing Me and Co from animal (or human) sacrifice
The "classic" infectious zombie
Binding mortals with Cords like Familiars
Experiments with magical diseases.
Discovering how to Give the Gift like it was a Mystery Virtue.
Researching diedne virtues.
A PeVi spell that permanently destroys the Gift

There could be dozens of stories involved. Players could be investigators tracking down rumors of strange experiments, evidence of failed tests. Evidence could be presented at tribunals that something foul is afoot. Political negotiations leading to a dramatic confrontation. A wizards is Marched and must be hunted down before he releases his creation.

Oh the horror!

A book on FOCUS MAGICS. people/traditions that are good at doing ONE thing and only one narrow thing, like casting CrIg effects, or ReTe effects "geomancer scale". Or cast powerful wards, or stuff like that.

In other words: magic of the founders. I have always thought sad that you cannot reproduce the traditions of the founders in canon, or not very well. Flambeau was a total sitting duck outside Creo ignem, but he ROCKED in that area. Something that allowed that would be great. A single, narrow area of magic, but you are a master in that area.

Xavi

I think both are important, although a lot of the mundane detail I’d rather have in detail, which requires a full Tribunal book or a mundane book on the topic (I recommend Bennett and Hollister’s Medieval Europe: A Short History).

I see a continent wide book fulfilling four purposes. One, a general introduction on each tribunal; in-game this would be information any magi outside the tribunal would have easy access too, out of the game this serves as general information for players and something of a teaser. Two, the book would cover some of the inter-tribunal and Order-wide issues that don’t entirely fit into the Tribunal books. Three, it allows the variety of the Order to be showcased (more important for newer players, but useful for everyone). Four, it allows tribunals covered by previous editions to get a small update. I figure you could probably have an introduction, 9-12 pages for each tribunal, and then probably a chapter or two about the Order as a whole and saga ideas. That should result in a book between 150-200 pages long.

With eight pages I see something like the following:

1 page introducing the region, discussing the general environments and important sites.
1 page going over landmark events of the tribunal’s history (mundane and mythic)
1 page going over the current mundane political and social landscape
2 pages on the hermetic landscape, particularly notable hermetic characteristics
1 page overview of the major covenants
1 page looking at a specific covenant in detail
1 page looking at a specific magi
1 page of saga ideas

Across thirteen tribunals a variety of covenants (all four seasons, nomadic, monastic, urban, faerie, highly magical, politically powerful, politically weak, et cetera) could be featured as well as a magi from each house.

Getting a book like this to work well with the established books is admittedly tricky. You want to minimize content that is effectively an excerpt but at the same time it wouldn’t make sense if its all new. Chapters covering a tribunal that has a 5th edition books can probably be minimized for this reason, although they’re also an opportunity to feature less important or weaker covenants and magi.

For example, let’s take the Normandy Tribunal.

You’d want a bit about the Carolingians, Capetians, Philip II, Louis VIII, and Paris. Hermetic history would likely focus on the schism war and the squabbles that followed. It would probably be worth doing a paragraph overview of each liege lord. Hermetic issues of note are the scarcity of vis, contact with mundane, covenant vassalage, the tourney, and a little bit about raiding. A covenant from this tribunal is tricky, since you don’t want to be redundant with an existing 5th edition book. Atramentum Renatus is an option. As a vassal of a vassal it features that system nicely, and it isn’t discussed in much detail in the book. Spider’s Palace might be good to tie it into a later discussion of the Lotharingian movement (although a Fengheld chapterhouse might be better for this). Another option is a small covenant not covered in the existing book.

Exemplum, last in the line of Sinapsis, and formally (?) vassal of Lapis Crudus. It was a young spring covenant when its liege disappeared, and while this opened up a number of resources it lacked any political might or influence. Exemplum was a frequent target of raiding, particularly from Atsingani. It floundered for decades, never actually falling apart (thanks to its vis sources) but never really establishing itself either. Around the time it finally started to settle and fully enter summer it’s liege re-appeared, leading to considerable debate over what to do about this. Exemplum is an example of a politically weak but marginally wealthy covenant, it touches upon several distinct elements of the tribunal, and it has hooks to covenants detailed in The Lion and the Lily. Top it off with someone with Diedne blood to be the featured magi of the chapter.

As an example of an earlier edition tribunal, let’s consider Stonehenge. The hermetic section likely focus more on politics (Blackthorn versus Voluntas). Goliard of Blackthorn would be an interesting maga to feature, she doesn’t appear with statistics in Heirs to Merlin, and she likely gives you hooks to the Hibernian tribunal (through the Ashenrise covenant) and Transylvanian tribunal (through her connections). As for a covenant to feature, Libellus and Nigrasaxa are both blank slates and either would be a good example of a spring covenant.

Done right, and I realize this is a much easier thing to say, I think the book could be a convenient resource for established players, give new players a good general grasp of mythic Europe and the OoH as a whole, and provide hooks to other works (and not just the tribunal books).

A book focused on just one city would be neat, but I think something featuring three or four might be a better idea. I think coming up with one single city that works well for lots of players would be difficult to accomplish. Constantinople would be neat, although it's already featured quite a bit in the Sundered Eagle book, although I suppose any major city is likely to be featured quite a bit in their respective tribunal book. (And a minor city would be an odd choice, although still possible.)

Several cities removes some of the intricate detail, but I think it makes for a more flexible overall work. It also means I wouldn't have to go over my distaste for the romanticized cloaca so many of you are discussing. :smiley: (I'm not sure if it would have smelled better or worse in 1220 than it did when I visited. Although I do imagine the food was better back before it became a tourist trap. . . . although I imagine it already was a tourist trap by 1220.)