Aegis and Spells: What does it do exactly?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

This prompted up in our saga, and, well, the text doesn't seem very clear (at least to me :laughing: ), so I thought this might at least spark some discussion, maybe interest some people and, best case basis, clear the mud from my eyes, one way or another.

If a character has a spell cast on him, like Invisibility, or has been changed into a pig, whatever, and tries to enter a foreign aegis, what happens exactly?

  • Does he gets blocked out while under the buff/curse, as if the Aegis was a giant Parma Magica protecting the covenant?
  • Does he get to enter, but the spell is dispelled as if by a Perdo Vim "Wind of Mundane Silence"*, destroying the buff or the curse?
  • Does he get to enter, but the spell is supressed as if by a Rego Vim "Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork", meaning the buff or curse ain't active while he's in the aegis but becomes active again when he comes out?
  • With the caveat that this doesn't affect Parma Magica, which was confirmed by David Chart

Thoughts, comments, cakes...

2

IMS spells casts outside and carried into an aegis are not affected. What is affected by the aegis are spells that try to cross the boundary or be cast once you are inside. Never considered the case of the naked magus crossing the aegis and appearing in the middle of the turb. Woops! :mrgreen: it can be funny, though

But no, as I said never considered affecting those. Worked so far for us

Xavi

3

Xavi, yours is a house rule. Look at the last sentence of the second paragraph of the spell description. Or look at the first bullet point for spells here: https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/a-guide-to-aegis-of-the-hearth/6092/1 .

Fixer, I would combine the penultimate sentence in the second paragraph of the spell description with the ultimate one. The penultimate one says a spell that fails to penetrate "fizzles out" and the ultimate one says spells like the one you mention must penetrate, so it seems such a spell should fizzle out. So I don't see any basis for the first of your three possibilities. As "fizzles out" isn't very specific, it's a guess past there, but I would go with your second interpretation over your third since to me "fizzles out" seems more like "extinguished" than "suppressed."

Chris

4

True. Thanks for the correction. Not something that is very common IMS in any case.

Xavi

5

This is the 2nd most asked question.

(the first being Parma).

The Spells are Resisted... but no one seems to have a good sense on what that means. Our saga uses the alt rules suggestions that say that if the Spell does not have penetration greater than the Aegis and significantly changes you (Shapeshifting, healing), it and you are kept outside the Aegis, if the spell only slightly changes you (invisibility spell, strength buffs, aura's of flame) it is canceled.

All this is extremely "Squishy" and requires some out-of-character discussion over new situations.

Jason.

6

My interpretation of "able to block...spells that were cast before they entered the Aegis, such as an invisibility spell cast on a magus outside the Aegis" is that if you have a spell cast on you outside the Aegis (such as an invisibility spell or Endurance of the Berserkers), and it fails to penetrate the Aegis's Penetration, then it is dispelled. The magus becomes visible once he enters the Aegis, or loses whatever buffs he had, or resumes his normal form.

7

Maybe not dispelled more suppressed, while under influence of the Aegis?

8

Again, it should probably come down to how you interpret "fizzles out." If "fizzles out" makes you think "dispelled," then go with dispelled. If "fizzles out" makes you think "suppressed," then go with suppressed.

Chris

9

Tough call, consider a few things here and we might get an answer.

(in these examples, assume that either the Parma or the Aegis was succesful in resisting a spell)

  1. If you cast a spell at a single target, the spell fails, its effect dissipated. It does not wait or hang in mid air as a trap for someone else to come along or for the original target to drop his guard later and then be affected. Such an effect would have to be specifically designed, and is not the case in the majority of spells. If it doesn't work at initial casting, the spell is gone. This is true whether it's cast at a parma or aegis.

  2. A spell or affect that was succesfuly cast on an object (Blade of the Virulent Flame) cannot pass through a Parma higher than its Penetration total. The spell was cast succesfully, but it still won't penetrate, and under a common ruling the spell and the sword under it would be deflected, but the spell, the flames, would not be extinguished.

If one were to try to bring such a sword with the spell on it into an aegis, the sword and spell likely wouldn't pass. Or would it, but extinguish the spell? This is the essential question. If it doesn't pass, that's simple enough; the spell and the thing it's attached to are blocked and can't cross the aegis. If the spell alone is resisted and the item/person/thing can pass, then what happens? Using example one, one would logically say that the spell dissipates, it wouldn't wait there (as if in midair) for the item/person/thing to return again and then burst again into life, even if it had the duration to do so. This is closely aligned the spell 'fizzling out'.

The other option might be is that the spell is suppressed, its effects completely diminished. A good way to look at that might be that the spell/item gets a bubble around it from the aegis and the magic cannot cross out of the bubble. The spell is alive, but ineffective. When the item/person/thing leaves the aegis, its bubble is gone and the spell comes back to life. This contrasts with the 'fizzle' effect. This also contrasts with the effects on parma, which to me is fine, the aegis is based off of, but different than parma. Game wise and visual wise though, this seems no different than the spell 'hovering in midair' outside the aegis and then reattaching when the item/person/thing returns. The difference is that it was always on the item but suppressed the whole time, but the overall affect is almost no different.

I like the suppressing idea, but I'd have to add a further caveat to it, as there are unintended consequences that can be taken advantage of. Someone with a magical curse could in theory walk into an aegis and be rid of it, if the magic of the curse would simply fizzle out. That provides a loop hole I don't care for. An alternative is that all aspects of the spell are suppressed, including the time that the spell/curse/effect lasts. So you have a spell on you that will last a Moon, you go into an aegis on day 1, wait for a Moon and walk out only to realize that the spell is still under effect as not a full moon has passed for the spell. To me that has kind of a magical/mythic flavor. Someone trying to avoid a curse might be able to do so, but is now effectively trapped within the aegis, and every time the aegis is recast has to suffer it for at least a little while.

These aren't answers, they're theories and suggestions at best, but maybe they'll help.