Another Spontaneous Spell Casting Question

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Dombus the Weak, a Hermetic Magus, has 0 in Ignem and 0 in Perdo, and Stamina of 0.

Sir Chops'em Up the Psychotic, a psychotic knight, is charging at at him with his lance's nasty end pointed at him, obviously intending to turn Dombus into a shish-kebab.

Dombus doesn't know any offensive spells, but does not want to be shish-kebabbed, and doesn't know any spells that would allow him to outrun a Sir Chpos'em's horse.

So, he calls on his general knowledge of magic to cast a spontaneous spell with the same effect as Heat of the Searing Forge (p. 140, 5th ed) - CrIg 10 - which can have the effect of making any piece of metal really really hot within voice range. He targets Sir C's helmet.

So, his casting total is (Cr 0 + Ig 0 + sta 0 + Aura 0 )/5 - i.e. zero, as per p. 81. Dombus is expecting more trouble today so he does not want to blow any more fatigue than he has to - so he goes for non-fatiguing spontaneous magic.

So, casting total - spell level is 0 - 10 = -10. So, expending one fatigue level, he make the knight's helmet really really hot. Hopefully for Sir C, no part of his helmet is in direct contact with his skin or beard.

Dombus, without having any offensive spells, and having to roll no stress die, has just put some serious hurt on a charging knight. Is this how things are supposed to work?

2

There's a contradiction here.

With spontaneous magic, you are not trying to get within 10 levels of the target level.
Instead, you get whatever level you achieve and that is the effect.
In this case, you end up with a -2 level effect. That is, no magic whatsoever.

3

I would say that 'Dombus' had better use the fatigue, and figure out something, because in about two seconds he won't need to worry about LATER....
:laughing:

4

He's got a 0 Perdo, 0 Creo, and a 0 Ignem... and he's irritated the very angry knight...

Might I suggest he try looking at his strengths, and then figure out what sort of spell would be most effective?

Perhaps a ReCo spell that would force his lance hand to grab his face?

A MuCo spell to make the knight's hand unable to grip the lance?

A ReMe spell to put the knight to sleep?

A MuHe spell to turn the lance into something like a wobbly green sapling?

A ReHe spell to plunge the lance into the ground and pole vault the knight someplace unpleasant.

A ReAn spell to make the horse run some other direction? To put it to sleep?

A MuAn spell to alter one of the horse's legs, so that it falls.

A ReAq spell to launch a bit of water from the nearby stream at the knight, blinding him or unhorsing him?

A ReAu spell to deflect the lance or knock the horse off course?

Then you're worrying less about how your 0 casting arts are affecting the roll and aiming for something you have a better chance of pulling off.

-Ben.

5

Fruny,

OK, thanks, that makes sense - your casting total when using spontaneous magic is the highest level of effect you can achieve. The book does not state this explicitly, but now that I look at it, this is the only reasonable interpretation.

So for Dombus to stand a chance to do anything at all with CrIg, he has to do fatiguing spontaneous magic, and hope to get really luck on the stress die. On average, he will get a 5th level effect.

6

Note that with a knight charging at you, you're probably limited to fast-casting in response, too. So that's another penalty to the casting total (-10, I think?)

7

Not necessarily. The magus could take his chances on initiative.

-Ben.

8

No, his tech + form + Stm + aura total is 0 right?

With fatiguing spontaneous magic his level will be die roll/2. That's around 2, not 5.

9

In short, no that's not how it works. You are conflating the rules for Formulaic spells and spontaneous spells. Because you've memorized a Formulaic spell, you succeed when your casting total is within 10 of the level of the spell, but you must use Fatigue.

This rule does not apply to Spontaneous spells. Your casting total on a Spontaneous spell must meet or exceed the spell level of the desired effect. If it does not, nothing happens, except you may lose a level of Fatigue, if you divided the total by two instead of five.

Some generous storyguides will allow a magus to cast a Spontaneous spell and once the level of the effect is determined he describes the magic that happens. So if you have a casting total of 30, the spell is more impressive than a casting total 10, even though the target spell is still only level 10. If that were the case, I would describe Dumbus as slightly chilling the knight's helmet such that he was refreshed and ready for battle (+1 Fatigue).

10

remember he can still shout and wave his arms about so he may get a total of 3 with his average die roll and bonuses after he divides EVERY THING* by 2.

*....does that every thing include a confidence point or do you add that after you divide?

11

I thought that large gestures and booming voice apply before the division - like a focus and anything else that adds to your casting total?

12

I think that agnar, is also taking into account an average die roll.

So, that would (0 Cr + 0 Ig + 0 STA + 1 Bold + 1 Loud + 5 Die Roll)/2 = 7/2 = 3.5 = 3

For what it's worth, I think that you would add the Confidence Point at the same time (as I think you add it to the rolled total).

So the total would be (10/2 = 5) for a normal character and (13/2 = 6) for a character with a Confidence Score of 2.

13

We do the loud voice and expansive gestures before division but add confidence afterwards, so as not to devalue confidence points.

That'd allow for (0t/f+0Sta+0A+ 5.5AvgRoll+2V/G)= 7.5/2--> 4+3Confidence

A 7..., so effectively a 5...

You could create a momentary flash of light at voice range equivalent to a torch. This might distract him.

You could momentarily make the helmet hot to the touch...whether or not this would bother him would depend on if he had something like a cap on under his helmet, or if it were well padded. Personally, I'd base this on the wealth of the knight-- a poorer knight has more threadbare equipment.

You could possibly, with a generous SG, start the knight's hair and beard on fire, doing no damage, but dissuading his charge.

Not a lot of options.

-Ben.

14

John Post:
Actually the rule on spontanious spells states that you need to declare an effect, and if the spell level is insufficient for the effect, it fails. You can modify the spell in terms of duration, target, range and powerlevel as long as you don't exeed the level you rolled, and you maintain the basic effect. It is implied that you can't exeed lvl 50 with it as well, as that would make it a ritual.

(I.e. I cast fire at the knight.... I rolled got 45... Hmm - oki I make a fire that burns for till sundown, is big enough to burn man and horse, and does +25 damage)

15

Right, that's why I said "some generous storyguides." I've done it occasionally for dramatic effect or humor, but it's definitely not RAW. I do it on failures, mostly for humor, but sometimes I reward someone if he gets four 1s in a row or something. Nothing worse than blowing a 1,1,1,1 on some level 5 effect spont spell, so I throw the player a bone.

16

Make me think that a magus with life linked spontaneous magic can cast a spontaneous spell of level 10 by spending 3 fatigue's level. Even if he has a score of 0 in the two art and a Stamina of 0...
Ex: Cr(0) + Ig(0) + Stamina (0) + Stress dire (say 5) = 2

Two fatigue levels needed in addition of the first... Spell succeed...

I begin to see more and more option with my character and his Ignem... :smiling_imp:

17

You need a level 10 spell you say.
So you need a pre-division score of 20.
You've got 2 points due to loud voice / large gestures.
You statistically expect to roll a 5.
That means you should use 7 pawns of Vis. (I hope he's got a MT of 4+)

It gives a couple of botch die, but that's worth the chance to live.

Since it's such a weak magus I would think he is probably a member of house Jerbiton (sorry, personal grudges). So he is likely a nobleman. Go with the "I'm noble, you'll get strung up for killing me, ..., I'll give you money, ..., I'll give you anything you want" defense, it gives a better chance of survival than that pathetic magic.

18

I have a question about Ceremonial casting, because firstly that's a Spntaneus casting... Are Filosophia and Artes Liberales added before or after the total are divided? Do it need Vis for cast a ceremonial spell like Rituals?
Thanks for yours answers.
And I thik tha it´snt possible that one spell worked withot a correct cast total ... Let's simple, Or not?

19

With zeros for scores, he is limited to zero pawns

20

True. Magic Theory affects Vis use in the lab, not spellcasting or anything else. You are limited to your Art scores for that.