I cunt 10 points of virtues and 6 points of flaws at gauntlet, assuming everything marked "initiation" is done after gauntlet. Please remember that you do not get virtue points for the dark secret associated with diedne magic

goldsmith is (per several sourcebooks) a craft ability of its own, not a concentration of metalworker

puissant abilities, unlike arts, get a +2 bonus, not +3

Finally I believe there are time based issues regarding being both magister in artibus and a hermetic magus- the 15 years of apprenticeship need to be in addition to the time to become a magister

So metalworker is all metals but gold and silver? Just want to clarify what it covers.

+3 is including the +1 from dwarf blood.

Fixing flaws, I left one off and didn't mark Ambitious as Major.

I don't mind making him older if you want but I assumed that since a 240 xp apprenticeship is technically only one season per year teaching, that it could be interwoven with attendance at a university.

ah, okay on the +3...

there is, by RAW, no simple metalworking ability. there are blacksmiths, goldsmiths, silversmiths, and tinsmiths or tinkers, who deal in tin, lead, and pewter... jewelers have a limited ability with metals to mount jewels, and other metals may have other specialized crafts, though those are obviously not as widely used

regarding the apprenticeship being interwoven with classes- 240 xp over 10 years (assuming 5 years learning spells) would be 24 xp per year, which would be a significantly higher than average SQ for one season of training- apprenticeship includes 1 season training, a couple seasons of exposure, and a another season of study, presumably from books or other fairly high quality sources- or more seasons of self study. To assume that it can be interwoven with magister in artibus would be to assume an exceptional teacher in the magus as well as being completely selfless in that he expects nothing but heartache and suffering for taking an apprentice- such an assumption exceeds the bounds of strong parens, and would certainly need to be a separate virtue.

Ok. It is in HOH:MC on an npc, but it is a problematic inclusion for the crafting system as a whole. I will switch to goldsmith.

Would you allow a slight re-branding of Magister in Arbitus to just be a major virtue encompassing intensive academic training by covenant tutors?

If you break up the 240 into seasons at 16 xp, that is 15 seasons; another 15 for hermetic apprenticeship with the same math; plus 5 for learning 25 spell levels per season up to 120, out of 15 years it still ends up with 25 seasons where he could have been assisting in the lab or doing whatever else his parens wanted.

at 1 season per year, 15 seasons is 15 years, which means you are extending the apprenticeship to 20 years in your example, and still assuming an above average instructor (com+teaching of 7) who is selfless to boot and wants nothing for the trouble and cost of training an apprentice

I was calculating the total seasons from 15 years (60), to see if there were enough left to allow for a parens to be rewarded for teaching.

I can make him 8 years older, I don't really mind, but isn't that an issue if his hermetic apprenticeship effectively took 22 years?

(8 years is the time it takes to earn a Magister in Arbitus by canon in Art & Academe - pg. 90)

in that case his university professors are really phenominal, with a SQ of 16 for a group class and a Gifted student means a SQ before the gift of 19, which means a com+teaching(+good teacher (5))of 16, so com 5 with teaching 6 and good teacher is the easiest way to get these super-professors

I think the best bet is to figure the magister in artibus as being post-apprenticeship, or take a lesser social virtue that provides bonus educational experience without the age requirements

Hence my request for rebranding it to be "this is a virtue that means your covenant had really good academic tutors"

the thing is that, no, it s not, because it not only gives you a ton of bonus experience, but also gives you social regard in terms of being subjected to canon law rather than civil, and academic prestige

if you just want good tutors at the covenant take strong parens and educated.

I would be fine with those things being cut from the magus version of the virtue; ordinarily I wouldn't ask for a house rule, but since there is one being formed already, maybe make it a major general virtue that just does the xp?

typically "just the xp" is 50xp for a minor virtue, which would equal 150 for a major virtue, not 240. Time and obligation is part of what brings down the cost of the experience of this virtue, so just conveniently dropping them doesn't really fit. Good parens is 60xp for a minor, and even that would only come to 180 as a major.

if you replace magister in artibus with privliedged upbringing, educated, and strong parens that gives you 160 xp with no extra time requirement

ok. I will do something along those lines and let you know when I'm done.

Changes done.

technically increased hubris should just be hubris for the first initiation, which is a cosmetic change.
spring 1190- the first initiation requires less than 10 days (this is unusual, but inherent in the script) so you can take experience that season, or simply shift the remaining seasons one place
a greater enchanted item needs combined powers whose combined powers are at least 7th magnitude, which does not simply mean opening the item
a talisman must be opened in one season and attuned in another
the quest to save a copy of a lost ancient book is more significant than simply retrieving it from a private collector- this would be an adventure requiring one season but worth 5xp from the adventure
also keep in mind that this being the Roman tribunal you do not have ready access to vis- you will need to either rent a sanctum at 1 pawn per season and either earn vis through enchanting or extract vis from the aura in order to have vis for your own projects.

So if you start in Rome you don't get the MTx5 pawns per year from the post-gauntlet advancement rules for enchanting etc.?

I'm not sure what you mean with the comment about greater enchanted item. It sounds like I'm going to have to dump all my enchanting anyway.