Ars Magica: Core Experiences

Games Discussion Ars Magica
21

For me, the most core elements of Ars Magica for me can't me limited to less than 4 [Edit: 5] categories:

  • Troupe play, multiple characters, Magus/Companion/Grog types: I like it how the different character types are different and each have their niche. As long as you remember to have multiple players play grogs so they are not alone. Also remember that the magus' time is very valuable so that's why they delegate jobs to grogs and companions
  • Lab work: One of the first things I remember about ArM that made it different, first time I saw is (it was when 2nd ed was new) was the existence of Magic Theory. I like it that not only can magi invent new spells to add to their repetoire, they can custom make them rather than use a limited list. Also devices, familiars etc.
  • The magic system: Both the Verb+Noun as well as Spontaneous magic is IMHO a vital part of ArM
  • Order of Hermes/Mythic Europe: To me the two elements both result in interaction, because I don't like isolated sagas. It's "The Order of Hermes" not "Individual Hermetic Wizards". I like it that the magi have colleagues, rivals, obligations, protection etc. It's "Mythic Europe" not "Mythic Fantasy World". I like it that the settign is based on real world historyk, culture, geography etc. which can be used for inspiration. And I expect sagas to interact with this and not isolate themselves.
  • [Edit: Time: The passage of time, seasonal activities, and aging - especially the differences between mundane and magus aging. I like this, also together with the mundane interaction. Tha magus gets older and more powerful, the nobles change generations and forge alliances or enmities acreoss the lines and families. But the mioghtly dragon is virtually unchanged, so the magus can grow into defeating it.]
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22

My group and I have only been playing our first ars saga since around January/February, but I think the setting of the game is really essential to making ars work. Mythic Europe provides a wealth of potential rivals, allies, and enemies throughout the mundane and magical worlds, which feels necessary to really tie long running games together. Besides that, the setting incorporates so much history and folklore it's really easy to figure out adventure plot seeds.

Just reading and doing research for our troupe game has been a really engaging aspect of the game. While our game is very much ahistorical, finding ways to make different events or bits of info into a game session has been one of the most uniquely fun things about ars for all of us.

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23

Troupe play and the three different character types are a core trait of ArM to our group. I especially like how I, during my turns as Storyguide, can write stories specifically for one or all three character types. Our introductory story in Modern New Orleans was all grogs.

The magic system with all the trappings of lab work is the heart and soul of the system to me, and why I first bought ArM products.

Mythic Europe is not, IMO a core part of the game, or at least not so much so you can't play "elsewhere" or "elsewhen". I do, however, feel that ArM settings based on the real world plus folklore are always going to be superior to fully homebrewed fantasy settings. I guess what I'm trying to say is, research, both historical and folklorical, is part of the ArM core experience.

Sometimes struggling to find the right spell guideline seems to be part of the core experience for our group currently, but 75% are completely new to the system.

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24

To me, Mythic Europe and the Order of Hermes are very much core essential experiences. Without them, what do we have? A cool magic system and a mediocre combat system.
It is a cool magic system, and is the inspiration for other free-form magic systems. But it is a very old fashioned system. It has been revised and refined over the years though. However, the last major revision was over ten years ago. There are other ways of doing magic that are just as good and not as archaic.
The combat system is acceptable. There are better and worse systems. I will agree that combat is not core, but it is key. Any RPG will live or die by its combat/action system.
The mechanics for injury and aging are cool and unique. I kinda wanna graft them into other systems. The Injury system is relatively new to this game (though as I mentioned, that was more than ten years ago and prolly closer to 15).
Fourth edition and earlier have something of a GURPS quallity about them. ArM5, not so much.

So yeah, whilst I agree that any aspect of a game can be optionall or HRd over, Mythic Europe and the Order of Hermes are the only reasons I play this game. They are the sole reasons why I sought this game out back in the 90s. Mainly it was Mythic Europe that attracted me. The OoH is something I learned of in a different game, and when I found out that this is where it came from, that doubles the strength of the draw.

So, no ME &/or no OoH = no Ars Magica for me.

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25

I focus on two thing:

  1. The setting of Mythic Europe
  2. The 'active' magic system (casting formualic, spontaneous and ritual magic; no lab work though)
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26

The experiences with my gaming group have really run a gamut of scenarios, but the biggest ones revolve revolve around... The following. (Though I will admit my group does not play troupe style, and we are responsible only for a magus)

World building and politics of the order (new and old), from building covenants, attending tribunal, getting screwed/helped other mages, and dealing with our surroundings, mundanes, nobles (and the denizens of the four realms).

If there is anything my group as a whole focused on it was lovingly raising apprentices with dedication and care I have never seen in other games.

My own personal focus ran along experimentation, the mysteries and crafting (I love the crafting/spell system, and the merit/hook system is the best. I actually wrote provisions in the covenant charter to ensure lab time...i adore you lab actions). Especially given the seasonal pace gives a lot of thought about how to spend it.

There's a love in learning platonic physics and the philosophy of the time and bending it to your will, the interactions of history and changing certain facets. Knowing all the rules to the code, knowing you have great power, breaking those rules, and dealing with the consequences.

The beauty of Ars Magica is the investment in the lives of your covenant, I've watched a table of players demand vengeance for the death of a junior magus only freshly gauntleted, and I've watched them laugh hysterically at an attempt to buy robes ending in a war with three counties, and I watched them cry when an Ice Weasel fae could no longer be with them. The core experience is a rich vibrant world you are invested in.

Also small side bitch, ...We really need new books for all the tribunals (Rome, Stone Henge

Combat while lacking as a major system, I've had few such combat encounters last very long, but generally a wound that weeps, or pilum of fire tend to short order combat, a lightning bolt or ball of abysmal flame tend to stop then dead. The magical complexity seems on par, though certamen has the right amount of tactical grit, and story option.

In the words of my first covenant " LEAVE NO WITNESSES!", and "This never happened" I hope this helps, feel free to hit me up to expand or gush about Ars.

27

The Stonehenge book from 4th edition has pretty much zero stats in it, so the only thing you'd need to change was a slight update for mechanics that may not exist anymore.. and I couldn't think of any.

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I honestly really enjoy the sheer amount of detail and style in which the 5e tribunal books (Transylvania and Rhine especially) were put together, but really any major components of your setting should not require finding older edition books, but should be updated, polished and presented for a new edition. I get what you mean, but I feel it was missed opportunity that could be addressed.

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29

You need to update Blackthorn a bit - as is, it doesn't gel brilliantly with 5e Tremere.

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30

Maybe the Blackthorn Tremere are...
A). the exeption that proves the rule
B). are involved in something so comples that it just looks that way to outsiders
C). ArM5 Tremere are just as fascist as earlier Tremere, just without the vampires and they are convinced their fascism is for the greater good.

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Maybe. They are on record as promoting democracy in the different tribunals. To reforming the anti-democratic traditions in the Rhine and Normandy, noble’s Parma.

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This one won't actually solve the problem: Blackthorn famously 'eats their own young', by which I mean they turned their own former apprentices into victims, something that is not only wasteful, but also very much against the Tremere ethics as described in HoH: TL.

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Coming up with a justification for keeping them unchanged is an option, true, although I personally find 5e Tremere significantly more interesting that what I've seen (admittedly limited) of 4e Tremere, and wouldn't want to lose that.

I've instead gone for the "tweaking Blackthorn and Stonehenge political situation" approach as follows

  • Blackthorn exists, and has been politically dominent in the Tribunal (this is consistent with Monica Ierne's write-up in AtD)
  • Goliard exists, and is a renowned Terram specialist (as per Guardians of the Forest)
  • The covenant's membership includes the Chief Quaesitor and the Praeco of the Tribunal (this isn't explicit 5e canon as far as I know, but I don't think it contradicts anything either). Note that with Immanola having been decreed to have entered Final Twilight, the Praeco can be genuinely entitled to the position.
  • I have otherwise thrown out the 4e Blackthorn magi, and replaced them with my own creations.
  • Over the last 50 years, there have been a couple of high profile incidents in the Stonehenge Tribunal of Bloodcap Redcaps (HoH:TL pg 91) murdering (mundane) people to dye their caps. Following this, Blackthorn proposed an addition to the Peripheral Code forbidding the training of new Bloodcaps (like the Tremere had done previously with Dhampir in Translyvania).
    The Mercere objected to this, on the basis that a) Dhampir and Bloodcaps weren't really comparable, the former being a much bigger potential threat, b) the Bloodcap pact had protected RedCaps in the north of England for hundreds of years, and they didn't want to lose that and c) the Tremere had no business interfering in who the Mercere chose to train. In the middle of the argument, a Bloodcap child of the Founder's line was discovered to have the Gift. The Mercere broke with tradition and voted against the proposal at Tribunal, whilst using their influence to ensure enough other people did too such that the proposal failed - the first of Blackthorn's to have done so in a long time.
    Since that time, relations between the Stonehenge Mercere and Tremere have remained frosty. Blackthorn has not been black-listed (that was left as a threat for if the Gifted Bloodcap was killed), but as the Redcap network is the main source of Hermetic news in the Tribunal, Tremere magi find it very hard to gain a positive reputation, whilst anything that would lead to a negative reputation gets disseminated widely.
    Meanwhile, the Gifted Bloodcap has just been gauntleted. His Enemies in the Tremere are watching intently for him to confirm their prejudices, but he has Protection from the Mercere beyond even that normally granted to Gifted of the Founder's blood - a lot of people have already staked a lot on him. What could go wrong?
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34

Perhaps. Mind you, I was being smarmy and half joking. I am also applying modern political philosophy to a situation from 800 years ago. Fascism was not a word back then, though I would consider the Romans to be proto-fascist. And the Greeks as well, especially the Spartans. Yet without the negative connotation of that word, we can reeecognize the virtues of the politics of the Greeks and Romans while recognizing their flaws. I look at the Tremere the same way. Yes, they ave a rigid hierarchy and a strict philosophy. But they value order, cooperation, and progress. These are medieval people who think in medieval ways. Man can only advance by degrees.
As for "democracy", that is a tricky term. Lots of monarchies have an electoral process or council of some sort. We are a few hundred years away from absolutism. It is more a matter of who gets to vote. Most everywhere that has some sort of electoral process has the vote rescricted to a certain class and gender. The Order of Hermes is the closest thing to a democracy in ME. Voting may be restricted to a specific class (magi), but gender and status do not matter.
Except for the Tremere. That whole sigil-holding custom of theirs is what mainly inspires me to call them fascist.

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35

Aww come on getting your sigil makes it a meritocracy, can you show sufficient mastery and skill to make your parens or sigil holder proud? Can you make house Tremere proud of your puissance?
I mean the book kinda points out they aren't trying to crush you otherwise most would likely never get a sigil, but kinda like getting a driver's license, you can show you are part of the big boys/girls club.

Also sadly smarmy doesn't show well in text as much as I wish it could.

36

Over the centuries, the old Roman and Greek states and communities were nearly everything: democracies, timocracies, aristocracies, oligarchies, plutocracies, monarchies, tyrannies, etc.. Greek authors introduced all these terms, provided several encompassing theories on organizing states or communities, and thereby introduced a lot of the political theory of antiquity - which certainly went further than any theories accepted in Mythic Europe.
All the antique theories understood, that a state or community had to be able to militarily hold its own - and the military of this time could only be partly professionalized or industrialized. Ships had to be built, OK. But the warriors of a community had to be grown, indoctrinated and instructed: that is, why Plato reads pretty militarist at times.

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37

This is it for me in a nutshell.

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38

Pity you don't live nearby, we should start a saga :wink:

39

Use discord, get a simple dice roller app..chat on voice/video. It works surprisingly well...cause that's what we do at my table during currently.

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Sure. Where? :wink: