Ars Magica Definitive Crowdfunding Oct. 15th!

I appreciate all the information here! Its going to be interesting to look over the options and stuff.

Expensive. I'll have one anyway.
I ... may have a problem. :wink:

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This is the way.

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I have to say, that from Europe, the 150$ plus another 25 ish $ shipping plus foreign currency fee adds up, it is quite steep (I checked the import rules, the threshold is 150 euros, so while we might be sparred the 19% import duties, our friends in the UK will not), and frankly more than I am willing to pay. I will be chatting with my gaming group tonight, but I think that the pdf will have to do.

I would also add that what I have seen of the map does not make me happy and is definitely something that I will be doing without: the tribunal borders are off and even more eggregious the real life locations are completely off with "Swabia" placed in Lombardia: since Durenmar is in Swabia, it means that it is now in the Roman Tribunal, with the Greater Alps extending into Prague, this puts Irencilla in the Greater Alps. I understand that a little whimsy and "here be drgaons" is appropriate for a medieval map, but I find this one to be counter productive and downright confusing.

To list a few of the more egregious mistakes:
Holstein is plastered over Mecklemburg, Franconia over the Allgau and Upper Lorraine over Swabia
Pagan lands over Orthodox Novgorod
Oland slapped over Gotland
The Danube, despite being the Tribunal border, not being the Tribunal border.
The Eastern Border of the Rhine being in the miiddle of Poland rather than roughly at Bautzen
Ghent in the Rhine despite being in Normandy
Champagne on Burgundy
Thuringia on top of Lusatia
The Provencal Tribunal not starting just north of Lyon

It's like whoever made this map didn't really bother to check the canon or google maps very carefully.

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Does this mean that the new definitive edition won't be available, event as a POD, later? Frankly, the new graphic design is so much better that it's just... superior, and it would be to the game's detriment to relegate it to a few collectible items, IMO.

It would have been even better if the graphic design could be extended to the standard core ArM5 (rather than the extended behemoth), and the rest of the line. But that seems unlikely.

Quite.

That map is not the quality I would expect from a Definitive Edition, and I very much suggest it gets replaced by a correct one soon.
It should be retired asap from the launch site as well, to remove needless embarassment.

EDIT: I currently cannot verify just where the map is coming from. Is there still hope that this is a hoax?

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No, this was shared on the Discord server by me. I follow the artist on Twitter and just shared the changes. As far as I know, this is of course not the final version, but hopefully we can get some clarification from Atlas' side on this thread.

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Phew! So a highly inofficial leak of a map that is intermediate at best. In that case I do not need clarification by Atlas at all. We were loud enough here ... :blush:

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The map is visible poking through here:

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I see. I see also there:

  • ART NOT FINAL
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Oh, it is a box, not just books? That adds 25% plus customs processing fees.

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I'm not fully up to speed on the map progress, I only know from watching the slack channel that it has been sent back and forth with lists of changes and corrections, and I don't know if it's finished. Looking at that map above, I notice it doesn't include the Domus Magna of each Tribunal, and it also does not include any of a huge list of corrections from David Chart (such as the spelling of Toulouse). So it is definitely an early draft.

EDIT: I'm going to make sure the team sees the comments in this thread anyway, in case there any map problems identified in this draft were not already caught!

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We plan to offer Definitive Edition to distributors and retailers and keep it available for sale in the future. What happens whenever the first printing sells out may be tricky, because of the extremely high production cost, but we will aim for that first printing to be enough copies to fulfill the Backerkit campaign, ship to distribution, and maintain stock for sale for, ideally, 1-2 years of ongoing sales. In the absence of better market information, my guess is that we would take the number of copies we need for the crowdfunding rewards, double that and set it as the print run.

POD: Not an option for the production quality of Definitive Edition. If the DE sells out in the future and reprinting it as-is is not viable, we'll have to figure out how to deal with it.

Example: Looking at Amazon KDP's print cost calculator, the maximum hardcover size is 550 pages, so that's not an option. A 550 page hardcover full-color interior print on demand title with Amazon KDP costs $49.65 per copy right now. That means that with ZERO profit margin (which means we'd be losing money on the free shipping we give distributors) it would need a cover price of $125, just for the hardcover book -- no screen, no slipcase, no map, no booklet.

How about softcover? OK, a 600-page full-color-interior softcover with Amazon KDP is $49.

So POD versions would be inferior in terms of content and production quality, and would need to have a higher MSRP than the Definitive Edition.

I realize there's some sticker shock at the $150 price tag, but I think it's actually an amazing value, made possible because we anticipate selling a lot of them at full price direct to fans right at the start. I hope that it will have ongoing sales at a level that will make future reprints possible, but I can't promise that, and I also can't promise what price tag it will need to have in the future to be viable.

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It will be a slipcased book set, not a boxed game. This should count as a book for customs purposes and VAT rates. (Books should be zero VAT in the UK, Ireland; and lower VAT rates for many EU countries.)

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Oh, after a quick convo with Michelle, I want to also add this note: We EXPECT the MSRP to be $150, but it may be higher, depending on the final quantity and printing/shipping prices. It won't be lower. The formal solicitation and pricing for distribution will go out sometime after the Backerkit campaign closes (and, among other things, we'll have updated pricing info based on the actual quantity of Definitive Editions that we expect to print).

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Will a PDF of the Definitive Edition be available as a separate purchase later on?

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Yes!

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A lot of these are already being corrected, and we will make sure that there is an opportunity for people who, you know, live in the areas concerned to point out remaining things later.

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I will profit of this thread seeing more of the team's attention to ask about this:

Is Atlas thinking about an idea like this? If not, would you be interested in hosting such an event?

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