Attribute-less Feng Shui

Games Discussion Feng Shui
1

This is an idea spawned by a thread offsite where I was musing about the problems with Attributes. A spark of brillliance provided by Neel Krishnaswami was to simply ditch them altogether.

Because this idea comes via my own derivation of Feng Shui Lite, there are some significant changes on standard Feng Shui:

  1. The only schticks we use are Gun (also doubling up as Weapon), Sorcery and Creature Powers. Some selected Fu and other schticks are retained. Either way they're not terribly relevant here.
  2. All the old archetypes are ditched for being unbalanced and more hassle than they're worth to tinker with. That also means new Skill list.

Last because of the specifics of the game I'm intending to play (a fantasy one-shot):
3) There are six archetypes, based on the roles from True20.

Rather than rehash the entire thread, here's the gist of the new structure. All characters have three core skills:
Athletics (which replaces all the physical Attributes)
Awareness/Perception (named not fixed, it's for detecting things)
Willpower (for resisting magic and so on)

Variations in physical abilities are represented by some new schticks, all of which basically give +3 to a specific check:
"Strength" - +3 damage and to checks involving lifting/shifting stuff
"Constitution" - +3 to checks against poison, disease and death
"Toughness" - +3 to damage soak
"Agility" - +3 for acrobatic stuff (but NOT Dodging)

I may add more, but generally for anything that would normally use the Secondary Attributes for Body or Reflexes, you take half your Athletics AV.

Where Athletics is largely an active Skill (though it can also used for Passive or Active Dodge), Awareness and Willpower are both used reactively. Awareness can be used to resist Intrusion and Willpower to resist Sorcery and Creature Powers, as well as social Skills like Intimidation and Deceit.

I'm toying with adding a "Bookworm" type schtick which gives you a load of Info skills for free.

Combat Skills I'm using are thus:
Close Combat (ie Martial Arts without the acrobatic stuff; weapon and unarmed combat)
Ranged Combat (Guns, but for fantasy so covering bows, crossbows and thrown weapons live javelins, axes and bolas)
Sorcery (largely unchanged)
Creature Powers

Creature Powers occupies a special place; no one starts with it by default, they have to choose it and replace some of their normal starting schticks to use it.

Otherwise everything else is covered by Skills:
Crafts
Deceit (Seduction merged in)
Info
Intimidation
Intrusion
Leadership
Medicine
Riding
Survival

So if your character is "smart" you pick up lots of Info skills. If you're "charismatic" you get Deceit, Intimidation and/or Leadership at high levels.

I'm still undecided exactly how to balance these. My cap for all AVs is 14; nothing goes higher. I'm musing with allowing everyone to have one 14 in each category, but then the cap for all others is 12. So you can have one good "core" skill, one good combat AV and one good other skill. Everything else tops out at 12.

This I'd build into my six archetypes, which are:
Adept
Expert
Warrior
Adept-Expert
Adept-Warrior
Expert-Warrior

Alternatively, I try to preserve the rough balance that existed in the old archetypes, whereby having a high AV in one combat skill means you can't have too high in any of the others. That went something like:
If you have one high (14 in this case), cap for any others is 10 - like the ex-Special Forces, Ninja and Maverick Cop. Karate Cop is an obvious exception here, with a 14 and 13.
If you have two high, maximum is 13; sometimes that means one 13 and one 12 (like the Masked Avenger). Although you get the Private Investigator with two 13s, others with 13 and 11.
If you have three or more, it's anyone's guess since they're all over the place. Magic Cop (with errata) has a 13 and two 12s. Abomination four 13s.

What I don't want is character's main AVs being too far from each other. Reason I capped at 14 was that everyone has at least one thing at 12 or more, and 2 points is not to big a gulf. I don't want characters with a 14 a 13 and a 12, for example. At the same time, the Warrior and Adept should have a 14 in their primary combat AV.

Anyway, that's the basic idea. I need to rework the archetypes to include Willpower, but here's what I had before:

Core Skills
Adept: Athletics 8 Perception 8
Adept-Expert: Athletics 10 Perception 11
Adept-Warrior: Athletics 11 Perception 10
Expert: Athletics 11 Perception 14
Expert-Warrior: Athletics 12 Perception 13
Warrior: Athletics 14 Perception 11

Combat AVs
Adept: Sorcery 14
Expert: Close Combat 13/12 and Ranged 12/13
Warrior: Close Combat 14/12 and Ranged 12/14
Adept-Expert Sorcery 13/12 and Close Combat/Ranged 12/13
Adept-Warrior: Sorcery 13/12 and Close Combat/Ranged 12/13
Expert-Warrior: Close Combat 13 and Ranged 13

Then for points to spend:
Warrior: 40
Adept-Warrior: 45
Adept and Expert-Warrior: 50
Adept-Expert: 55
Expert: 60

My concern with the current setup is that the Adept gets stiffed. Low on the core skills, only one combat skill when everyone else has two, and not even that many skill points. All to be able to take five Sorcery schticks (max for anyone else is four).

So thoughts on this venture so far?

2

Right, let's try to get these archetypes sorted. This is building their core to be put into a regular archetype patter with some fixed stuff and some chooseable options. I think an easy way of balancing them is the total number of points on their three core skills and two combat ones.

Core skills
Adept: Athletics 9, Awareness 10, Willpower 14
Expert: Athletics 11, Awareness 12, Willpower 11
Warrior: Athletics 14, Awareness 10, Willpower 10
Adept-Expert: Athletics 10, Awareness 11, Willpower 13
Adept-Warrior: Athletics 12, Awareness 10, Willpower 12
Expert-Warrior: Athletics 12, Awareness 11, Willpower 11

Combat skills
Adept: Sorcery 14, Close Combat 10
Expert: Close Combat 13/12, Ranged 12/13
Warrior: Close Combat 14/12, Ranged 12/14
Adept-Expert: Sorcery 13/12, Close Combat/Ranged 12/13
Adept-Warrior: Sorcery 13/12, Close Combat/Ranged 12/13
Expert-Warrior: Close Combat 13, Ranged Combat 13

Skill points and schticks
Adept: 43 Skill points, 5 schticks
Expert: 46 Skill points, 4 schticks
Warrior: 40 Skill points, 5 schticks
Adept-Expert: 46 Skill points, 4 schticks
Adept-Warrior: 41 Skill points, 5 schticks
Expert-Warrior: 45 Skill points, 4 schticks

Now that's based on everyone getting equal points, with a schtick being worth 5 Skill points. Doesn't really seem a lot of difference between them, but for a few points here and there. In the old scheme, the reason to go Expert was that you got lots of Skill points. Now it's not really a big deal.

Should I just go back to the other arrangement, and to hell with it being "balanced"?

Again I'm left wondering if the Expert-Warrior really adds anything.

3

My five cents.

I don't see what the archetypes brings to the game. You could summarize the skills for all archetypes like this:

Core skills
Base value of all core skills is 9.
Divide 7 points between these skills, add no more then 5 to one skill.

Combat skills
Base value of two skills is 10.
Divide 5 points between these, adding no more then 4 to one skill.

Other skills
sumthing.... I didn't understand what you meant.

To be honest, I don't see why you are so determined to have the scale between 10 and 15. That's just more points to shuffle. I would recommend to lower the scale to 0 to 5 or 5 to 10.

I don't really agree on that Info skills should tell you how smart nor educated you are. For me, the Info skills are more flavor that tells you about the characters hobby and interests. Poetry, noodle making and history, for example.

One thing I personally like with Feng Shui is that reflexes and body are so distincly separated through the attributes. That directly helps the players to think "should I play a fast, agile character or a strong brute that can take alot of punishment?", just like the cinematic figures that exists in action movies. Yeah, you have that in your new schticks, but it's not as obvious. And another personal opinion, but "get +X on skill Y" is kind of boring schticks.

...and should you really call it "Feng Shui Lite"? :slight_smile: What's left of Feng Shui? How you read the dices? :slight_smile:

4

Because they're easy shorthands for certain types of character. Especially given this is for a fantasy game, Warrior/Expert/Adept is a neat breakdown of fighting-type, skill-using-type and magic-using-type.

Furthermore, the players in question don't want to be spending an hour fiddling around with numbers, they want something easy to pick up and play (like native Feng Shui is). Thus I'm trying to come up with a schema along which to build these six archetypes so it's easy.

Because you need an outcome of 5 to beat mooks. I've not changed that, and I don't want to change that. Furthermore it means I can continue to use the difficulty tables and others in the book.

For clarity, the range I'm interested in is 9-14, rather than 10-15.

Well that's a matter of taste. The Intelligence attribute is largely redundant in most games. As indeed are many other attributes. In addition, whenever you're actually expected to roll against an attribute competing with a skill, it's a pointless roll. Chances of actually beating a skill with an attribute are slim.

They still are distinct, and "boring" isn't relevant for this game. It's about some simple customisation options. That's one of the reasons I condensed the Gun schticks in one of the other threads. Now most are one or two levels at most.

Shot Counter, AVs, damage and soak, difficulty levels, simple characters. I changed the dice for d10s, which explode less often.

5

When I wrote "lower the scale" I mean (of course) for everyone. If the normal AV for mooks is 0 (normally around 8), it would mean that the characters AV should land around 1 to 6 (normally between 9 and 14). It's also easier to say "Roll a total of 5" then "Roll a total and then subtract it with 8. If it's more or equal to five then...".

Lowering the scale will decrease the numbers as well. To be honest, wheres the hard part in divide five and seven points between three and two skills respectively? Especially if you start out from zero.

And on the plus side, you don't need a table that plots out sex archetypes. It's such an easy formula that you even can write that down on the character sheet.

When mooks has an AV around eight, then they're considered re specialists. Attributes for mooks are around five. Feng Shui characters are action heroes. Of course it should be easy to beat attributes, but for the normal everyday mook, that's sometimes hard even for mook experts. I have no trouble with the major villain to beat the heroes attribtutes,, then they will meet some competition for a change.

But I gave this suggestion from the starting point that you used the normal exploding d6 system. I've changed it too, but only how you read the dices (which gave less subtraction).

When you're at it. Do something about the damage calculation. That formula is horrid!

Positive die - negative die + your AV - opponents AV + damage - Toughness.

That's at least five calculations and three of them are subtracting! Not exaclty what I want from an action game myself.

6

Hmm, one thing I'm not understanding from your scheme, Kiero, is the place of the Creature Powers skill. You buy monster powers with schticks, but which skill do you use to activate them ? Sorcery ? Close Combat ? Or Creature Powers, and if such where does it fit ?

To use my beloved custom "Revenant" archetype as an example to test your system, he would obviously be a supernatural Adept-Warrior archetype:

Core skills
Adept-Warrior: Athletics 12, Awareness 10, Willpower 12

Combat skills
Adept-Warrior: Sorcery 13/12, Close Combat 12/13

Skill points and schticks
Adept-Warrior: 41 Skill points, 5 schticks (2 Sorcery schticks 3 Creature Powers)

It looks fine, but what he does roll to activate Creature Powers ? Does he buy a Creature Powers skill (at 13/12) with skill points ? or does he use Sorcery or Close Combat ?

Also if I get t right, you only get to spend skill points on non-core, non-combat skills otherwise, you need to sacrifice one or more schticks slots to improve Core skills.

I wonder what happened to the investigative skills (Detective/Journalism/Police). Do they get merged with Intrusion ? Or the Perception Core Skill ? I think an Investigation skill might be warranted, if it's not included in Intrusion.

So, assuming he gets to spend 13/12 pts on Creature Powers skill, a possible skill setup might be:

Creature Powers 12/13
Deceit/Investigation 9/10
Intimidation 10
Medicine 9

7

Problem with lowering the scale is that you're increasing the importance of chance (ie dice-rolls) to the outcome. I've already increased that scope by using d10s (go from -9 to +9, barring explosion) instead of d6s (which go from -5 to +5). If you drop the scale, each point becomes even more significant, and you can't guarantee nominally competent characters are actually anything of the sort.

Not that bothered by it, to be honest. Not a lot more complicated than setups elsewhere, and given there's little other calculation anywhere, not a big deal.

Creature Powers is an optional one, I've deliberately not included it on any of the base templates. The default assumption is that characters are human, and thus don't have any Creature Powers.

I'm still musing on how to add them, since it would necessitate then having some trade-off.

Essentially the idea is that if you're playing a non-human, you get Creature Powers at 10 and a couple of Creature Powers schticks (and the ability to swap others). In any case all this has changed, as per below.

Investigation was an unintentional omission. It's back in, as you can see in the new archetypes below.

8

I've now got a setup I'm happy with, though there's some stuff that's undecided. Primary of those is how many Core schticks to give.

Adept

Skills
Core
Athletics 8
Perception 12
Willpower 12

Combat
Sorcery =14

Other
Deceit 10 or Leadership 10
Info/Arcane Lore 10
Info/[your choice] 10
Medicine 8 or Riding 8

Add 16 Skill points (Max for all categories is 12, with exception of one 14)

Schticks
Core: Add 2 Core schticks
Other: Add 5 Sorcery schticks

Weapons
Choose one weapon

Expert
Skills
Core
Athletics 10
Perception 12
Willpower 10

Combat
Close Combat 12
Ranged Combat 13

Switch values for Close Combat and Ranged Combat if desired

Other
Deceit 10
Intrusion 10
Investigation 10

Add 24 Skill points (Max for all categories is 12, with exception of one 14)

Schticks
Core: Add 2 Core schticks
Other: Add 3 Weapon schticks

Weapons
Choose two weapons

Warrior
Skills
Core
Athletics 12
Perception 10
Willpower 10

Combat
Close Combat =14
Ranged Combat =12

Switch values for Close Combat and Ranged Combat if desired

Other
Crafts 10
Intimidation 10 or Leadership 10
Riding 10 or Survival 10

Add 14 Skill points (Max for all categories is 12, with exception of one 14)

Schticks
Core: Add 2 Core schticks
Other: Add 5 Weapon schticks

Weapons
Choose three weapons

Adept-Expert

Skills
Core
Athletics 9
Perception 12
Willpower 11

Combat
Sorcery =13
Close Combat =12 or Ranged Combat =12

Switch values for Sorcery and Combat if desired

Other
Deceit 10
Info/Arcane Lore 10
Intrusion 10

Add 19 Skill points (Max for all categories is 12, with exception of one 14)

Schticks
Core: Add 2 Core schticks
Other: Add any 4 Sorcery or Weapon schticks

Weapons
Choose two weapons

Adept-Warrior

Skills
Core
Athletics 11
Perception 10
Willpower 11

Combat
Sorcery =13
Close Combat =12 or Ranged Combat =12

Switch values for Sorcery and Combat if desired

Other
Info/Arcane Lore 10
Deceit 10 or Leadership 10
Medicine 10 or Riding 10

Add 14 Skill points (Max for all categories is 12, with exception of one 14)

Schticks
Core: Add 2 Core schticks
Other: Add any 5 Sorcery or Weapon schticks

Weapons
Choose two weapons

Expert-Warrior

Skills
Core
Athletics 11
Perception 11
Willpower 10

Combat
Close Combat =13
Ranged Combat =13

Other
Crafts 10
Intimidation 10 or Leadership 10
Riding 10 or Survival 10

Add 19 Skill points (Max for all categories is 12, with exception of one 14)

Schticks
Core: Add 2 Core schticks
Other: Add 4 Weapon schticks

Weapons
Choose three weapons

9

Hmm, continuing my review of your system focusing on the character types that interest me more...

Default combat skill capped at 10 for Creature Powers is way too low. You either need to set it at 12 (with the option to swap another CS at 13 with it), or the option to raise it with skill points.

I'm rather unhappy with the fact that hybrid archetypes get one less schtick. Pure archetypes already get their chance to shine with one AV more in their combat skill, and in FS, one AV is a rather big deal. Robbing hybrids of one schtick slot too is unfair picking on them.

This core skill distribution makes little sense for Adept-Warriors:

Core
Athletics 11
Perception 11
Willpower 10

It should be:

Core
Athletics 11
Perception 10
Willpower 11

Given that Perception is their non-specialization core skill, it ought to be their lowest score.

10

I'm not putting it under combat skills, it just starts at 10. I still haven't decided which of the Creature Powers I'm going to retain. There are some which don't actually require the power anyway (like Regeneration). If they don't, I'm of a mind to just allow characters to swap a schtick for one.

I did make a mistake on the Adept-Warrior's schticks - they should have five (given both Warrior and Adept do) - fixed now.

All the others are simply adjusted to reflect the Expert component. Experts have fewer schticks for more Skill points (1 schtick=5 Skill points). Thus the Adept-Expert and Expert-Warrior have one less schtick, but 5 more Skill points.

That's reasonable - edited.

Any thoughts on an appropriate number of core schticks to give out to every character? I was thinking one or two.

11

If it's not a combat skill, and you can therefore use skill points to raise it (maybe with a cap at 12 or 13), then starting at 10 is reasonable.

Yea, the issue is about those Creature Powers that involve a touch, a HTH or ranged attack, or an action which might fail. Now, I've never been fully satisfied with the seemingly-arbitrary way canon calls for a Creature Powers or a Martial Arts roll, for different combat Creature Powers. Well, theoretically, one might ditch CP skill and either use Sorcery (for ranged attacks and non-attack powers) or Close Combat (for those who require a touch or a unarmed attack). But this would indeed rob the system of some significant flavor, since it would dampen the difference between monster powers and sorcery or kung-fu tricks. Admittedly, your system minimizes the main difficulty with having the three skills separate, since it ensures all archetypes are going to have the option to buy the Close Combat skill, albeit at different values, so it's far less likely a character type will have Creature Powers without the Close Combat skill to use them effectively, as it happens to canon Ghosts.

This is reasonable. It were Adept-Warriors that would have been unfairly short-changed.

Dunno so far. I need further reflecion on the issue.

12

This is it; under this system having a separate Creature Powers seems kind of redundant. All the close-in ones should just use Close Combat, and I'd be tempted to say the ranged use Willpower. Stuff like Domination should rightly use Willpower or a social Skill.

I'm tempted to just say if you're playing a non-human, you can switch up to two schticks (core or otherwise) for Creature Powers. More by agreement on a case-by-case basis.

I'm now thinking of turning this system to another favourite of mine: Star Wars.

13

On the other hand, on further reflection, retaining a separate Creature Powers skill adds much flavor (it keeps monster powers conceptually separate from magic spells and kung-fu tricks) and it solves a significant difficulty: while it is satisfactory to use Close Combat for HTH powers, it requires to use a core (Willpower), not a combat skill, for ranged ones. This is a potentially rather unpleasant unbalance, since in any other case, characters use (generally higher) combat skills for combat actions. Sorcery or Ranged Combat would be more fitting to use, but many character types are not going to have them. Therefore, I heartily recommend to retain a separate Creature Powers skill.

This is a good approach, only that for characters that are going to resemble the old Supernatural Creature, i.e. a "pure" monster powers specialist, they need more Creature Powers. Why not allowing to swap up to five schticks (surely combat, maybe core too) for Creature Powers ?

As for the issue of core schticks, on further reflection, seeing that any of them is going to cover the area of an old Secondary Attribute, and they will grant a +3 each, I'd say two each should be given out to every character.

As it concerns the Star Wars game, sorry, I can't help you there. I utterly lack experience with that game. I only know I would rush to play Sith characters. 8)

14

To be honest, having conceptually different power sources isn't that important to me. I only have two other types of schtick as it is, and if mos of the Creature Powers retained don't actually use the power then it isn't a big deal. If anything that's the opposite of my intent; the simpler it is, the better, the fewer categories of "specialness" the better.

Core skills won't be that far off Combat ones; indeed the might be higher in some instances since you're allowed one at 14 and the other two top out at 12.

Given this is a fantasy setting, I'm not really envisaging pure Supernatural Creature types anyway. While I've retained Creature Powers, they're deliberately de-emphasised. Main powers I want used are Sorcery and Weapon.

Sounds about right.

Ah well, different strokes and all that.

15

I understand your yearning for simplifying the system as much as possible. However, I still deem somewhat kludgy that Creature Powers alone, from all powers and combat abilities, are forced to rely on core skills, and the possible game unbalances thereof. I think things would flow much more smoothly if such powers were allowed to have their own skill. As you point it, it would not be a combat skill, but a general one, starting at 10 with ample possibility to customize its level with general skill points on its own. Not a big deal as additional system elements go. A player would be not moved to mix-max core skills and compromise character concept in otehr areas, to get an optimal score in monster powers use.

OK. But as fantasy settings go, it probably feels richer if there's not only one source for "magic powers". This is especially true since you have already ditched Fu tricks. Deemphasize them if you want, but keep them around.

Yes. However, my first response (the one you quoted, I edited it afterwards) was based on the misreading of Star Trek, not Star Wars. Therefore, my opnion needs change somewhat. The Star Wars universe indeed holds opportunity enough for superhuman stuff to satisfy my needs.

However, I happen to have had very little exposure and experience with Star Wars RPG. I barely seem to remember it's a fairly rigid system, with character classes and all that. As a general rule, I have very, very little sympathy with very rigid and structured character-development systems, with classes and levels and spell lists and all that.

Moreover, I'm not very confortable with the very rigid good-evil dichotomy such an universe mandates. I rather prefer very loose and shades of grey character morality. If anything, I find myself much, much more in sympathy with the "will to self-empowerment" Nieztchean ethos of the Sith than with the ascetic detachment of the Jedi. If called to play in the SW universe, I would likely be clamoring to play a Sith or something similar. The fact the Dark Side holds all the really cool powers is just icing on the cake. 8)

16

I don't agree, but again I'm not seeing Creature Powers-dominated characters anyway. A couple of schticks perhaps, but nothing more. I'm tempted to reduce the list of them down to things like Regeneration, Damage Immunity, Transformation and so on. And limit people to no more than a couple.

Frankly, "multiple sources of power" is one of my pet hates in fantasy. I prefer all magic and weirdness to be one, from the same source, working by the same rules. None of this arbitrary "arcane/divine" split, no high/low chi, just powers.

Not a big fan of Star Trek either.

Which Star Wars RPG are you talking about here? D6 or D20 or Saga Edition? Sounds like the D20 RCR version. Either way, I think Feng Shui is a better fit for the free-wheeling feel than any of those.

Depends what sources you're drawing on, really. Particularly with regard to how the Jedi behave.

17

I see. Well, if you strip out all Creature Powers that call for skill roll, it makes sense. However, in the case I'm going to use your system, which I otherwise fancy, I'm going to overrule you in this, since I definitely fancy keeping Creature Powers in their glorious variety.

On a general rule, yes, I can share your approach. E.g. I definitely despise the rigid arcane/divine split in D&D, and the superheroic settings which I define as the cosmic parade of freaks, where you have a truckload of wholly separate power origins, all coexisting. I rather much prefer settings where there's only one or two explanations for super-powers (typically mutant psionics, reality-warping, or magic). However, I'm also open to some multiple sources of power in fantasy when it makes sense: e.g. IMO a dichotomy that makes sense is magic spells vs. inborn or acquired gifts, such as divine or demonic blessings, or monster powers.

The D20, I suppose. But it's stuff that I got to make a lazy cursory read in FLGS, once or twice. As I said, besides the fact I hate class-based systems, there's the fact I also hate the systems with enforced goodey-good morality, and the fact you got to quickly lose your PC once he started using any of the really cool powers, was a huge turn-off. And anyway, my sympathies always went to the much-maligned Sith.

The movies (all of them) and the Expanded Universe comics, esp. the ones that detail the ancient ages of the Republic (Golden Age of the Sith, the Sith War, Knights of the Old Republic).

I agree that in past ages, the Jedi were not so oppressive on their own, but my sympathies go to the "will to power" warrior ethos of the Sith nonetheless. Although I agree they really need to tone down their destructive rapaciousness and infighting somewhat into a ruthless but functioning meritocracy, without crippling themselves down to two at a time (OTOH, the ancient Sith Empire functioned quite well with more than two Sith masters around at a time).

I think that in an ideal setting, my sympathies could go to a "grey" Force Adept philosophy that taught to embrace both sides of the Force equally. But I have very little patience with an ascetic philosophy that teaches to reject passion and force in yourself and in nature as an abominion. I can see where it originates in Eastern philosophy (and Eastern religions happen to be the only major modern religions I can respect, b/c they never really got their hands bloodied or Inquisitions in place, as far as I know), but I don't share the urge that originates it. I prefer to remain passionate with lust and intellectual gluttony and rage and most definitely pride and tie myself ever so tightly to the wheel of Karma, thank you.

18

Hey, if you're using it for your own games, be my guest! :stuck_out_tongue:

I like the approach in Angel. Powers are the same, just because you give different in-game rationales for them doesn't mean you need completely different sets of mechanics with their own special rules for it.

19

Maybe. At present, we are completing an Ars Magica story arc, but after that, who can say ? Anyway, one of the biggest defects I've always lamented in Feng Shui is the lack of a system to customize archetypes and build characters from scratch, and your system looks like a good step in the right direction, even if I really do not share your simplification fury :stuck_out_tongue: So, if I do it, I absolutely going to keep full-fledged Creature Powers and maybe also full Gun and Fu schticks. Not Transformed Animal powers, no, if I can avoid it. They have always stricken me as quite lame, as a character concept.

20

If you want a more traditional style template, the ones I used in my various attempts at Lite could serve well. Basically it's thus:
*All Primary attributes start at 5; you have 6 Primary and 6 Secondary to spend (1 Primary = 3 Secondary).
*You've got 30 points for Skills (I tend to top out at 14 and offer nothing lower than 12).
*You've got 5 schticks.
*Schticks can be traded for Skills/Attributes at a rate of 1 Schtick=5 Skill points=1 Primary attribute.
*Everyone defaults to Working Stiff. Optional whether being Poor gives you a Schtick worth, or being rich costs a Schtick.
*Optional whether lots of weapons costs anything.

For what it's worth I agree with you on the Tranimals. What's more, I really don't like the way their powers are like an alternate Fu system, even using the same power source. I don't like duplication for it's own sake.