Begining economics

[Trogdor]

@silveroak

I have been assuming that the redcap would be treated as a full magus.

It seems like sometimes he is, and sometimes he isn't.

For determining Loyalty, it seems he is. After all, there's a category of ungifted magus listed.

But for determining upkeep, it seems he's considered a companion. At least that's how they did it in the example given on page 68 of Covenants. But it would certainly make perfect sense to consider him a magus for purposes of upkeep, etc.

[Trogdor]

@silveroak

Keep in mind that given the scope of the scriptorium, they already employ a percamenarius shop, which we could 'borrow' from as we can with scribes, book binders, ink makers, etc.

But that could take away income. And it seems like Robbing from Peter to pay Paul if we reduce our costs only by reducing our income.

[silveroak]

It depends on your finesse ability. Assuming a standard craftsman with ability 5 to do what they can do in one season requires a finesse+ inteligence roll of 14 is required. for one month an Int+finesse roll of 11, to replicate one day's work would require a roll of 8. To affect wool with spontaneous magic would require Rego+animal+stamina+aura+die roll of 20 (3 for wool, 1 for range touch, then multiplied by 5). To simply harvest the wool requires no skill so the finess roll drops to 6 for a days work, 9 for a month's and 12 for a season, but the target becomes part (of the sheep), and raises the casting requirement to 25, unless you want to try and sheer many sheep at once which would raise the target to group, which means you would need to roll a 30 for the spell to sheer 10 sheep at once.
now enchanting sheers to shear 10 sheep at once- that could provide an actual bonus to the income roll...

[Trogdor]

@Arthur

Just a comment here, not an objection. The wives would work as servants. The elderly parents would live out of the worker's wages. This category is for the dependents of the covenant itself, such as retired grogs and covenfolk.

I just put the 5 dependents in there as a bit of a fudge factor. Maybe we have 0. But I doubt we have more than 5.

@Arthur

Wagons are usually pulled by oxen rather than horses. And since we are setting up at a mountaintop, we are more likely to use donkeys and/or mules.

I figure whatever we have has some kind of horse-equivalent in terms of cost.

@Arthur

Over the long term, laborers end up costing more than they save us. Particularly when we move to a Summer covenant, where the points of inhabitants doubles for each covenfolk. Also, we will live on a mountaintop and our cover is that of a school, so we don't want too add too many people.

I hadn't noticed the doubling. It just seemed reasonable that we might have a small herd of our own and a small vegetable garden. And Orien likes a diet of fish, so having a few fisherman is something he'd appreciate.

@Arthur

Skilled craftsmen are more effective to reduce expenditures, particularly the rare ones. Certainly, a percamenarius would make a lot of sense, since one of our source of income is a scriptorium. It is also useful for the school and for the magi.

Again, since we have a ready supply of sheep, a percaminarius seemed like something we could easily find employment for.

@Arthur

We can also use the surplus to acquire mundane books. Area Lore, Artes Liberales, Canon & Civil Law, Church Lore, Medicine, Philosophiae, Theology. But also Dominion Lore, Faerie Lore (mythology texts) and Magic Lore (see the Literature section in TSE pp.43-44).

Good point.

@Arthur

The schoolmaster should be treated as a companion rather than a specialist, if you consider his standard of living. Perhaps even as a noble. In fact, that's the conditions he would instst on. Otherwise, how could he be treated seriously by the nobles who send their children to his school?

FWIW, I counted the schoolmaster as a companion in my calculations.

[JoelHalpern]

@silveroak

It depends on your finesse ability. Assuming a standard craftsman with ability 5 to do what they can do in one season requires a finesse+ inteligence roll of 14 is required. for one month an Int+finesse roll of 11, to replicate one day's work would require a roll of 8. To affect wool with spontaneous magic would require Rego+animal+stamina+aura+die roll of 20 (3 for wool, 1 for range touch, then multiplied by 5). To simply harvest the wool requires no skill so the finess roll drops to 6 for a days work, 9 for a month's and 12 for a season, but the target becomes part (of the sheep), and raises the casting requirement to 25, unless you want to try and sheer many sheep at once which would raise the target to group, which means you would need to roll a 30 for the spell to sheer 10 sheep at once.
now enchanting sheers to shear 10 sheep at once- that could provide an actual bonus to the income roll...

I have a Perception+Finesse+Specialization (rego) of 12, and a Rego+Anima+Stamina of 23 before considering aura.
I figured I would want skilled results so I was trying to achieve with each casting what a craftsman should accomplish in one day. I presume I can cast at least once a minute allowing for supplies being moved around, etc. So I presume I can achieve the equivalent of bout 500 days work by a skill 9 craftsman in one day of my time.
I had not considered sheering the sheep, although if the sheep are within our aura, I can presumably handle one sheep a casting.

[JoelHalpern]

@silveroak

To simply harvest the wool requires no skill so the finess roll drops to 6 for a days work, 9 for a month's and 12 for a season, but the target becomes part (of the sheep), and raises the casting requirement to 25, unless you want to try and sheer many sheep at once which would raise the target to group, which means you would need to roll a 30 for the spell to sheer 10 sheep at once.
now enchanting sheers to shear 10 sheep at once- that could provide an actual bonus to the income roll...

Once I have a lab, presumably with 2 suitable vis I could enchant the sheers. Which would then save us 2 lbs of silver a year, if I understand covenants right. I could even do it at +2 magnitude for 3 vis, but that would seem it imply that we have a LOT of sheep.

[silveroak]

With those scores you should be able to replicate a season worth of work in a single casting as either a weaver (wool) or percaminarius (parchment). Either of these would be very usefull cast twice a year to fill in for a single craftsperson in terms of covenant savings

[JoelHalpern]

@silveroak

With those scores you should be able to replicate a season worth of work in a single casting as either a weaver (wool) or percaminarius (parchment). Either of these would be very usefull cast twice a year to fill in for a single craftsperson in terms of covenant savings

I am certainly happy to cast two fatiguing spells twice a year. I can get an effective score up to 20 (life-linked spontaneous), but as I understand it increasing the quantity further would increase the finesse requirement, and I want to make the finesse roll reliably.

[silveroak]

Yes and no- increasing the quantity will increase he spell requirements, but the finess is based on required time- by making it a season of work instead of a day (+6) I have already taken that into consideration. int+finesse for a seaons of work for a skilled (skill 5) craftsman is craft ability level (5) + 3 (base)+6 (season of work)=14 on a 12+stress die roll. If you roll a zero you botch anyways, if you roll a 1 you double the result, so realistically 14 is your lowest possible non-botch roll (except a zero non botch), and I would say 90% of the time is pretty reliable.

[JoelHalpern]

Thanks Silveroak. That makes sense to me.