Book Titles

Wonderful books and, especially, writers :slight_smile:

But you do know of the tractatus writing limit? The same person writing 10 tractati in Philosophiae is practically impossible.

Exceptionally rare, but not impossible. And if i read it correctly, the aim here was for that to be a lifetime achievement, with a longevity ritual included.
If she can keep up ~10XP per season used to study this, its <105 seasons needed, <70 if affinity with the ability. With extensive correspondence and sending books back and forth, thats usually possible even if its not exactly easy. Should take her less than 50 years if she´s fairly obsessed but not quite extreme(with extreme, it shouldnt take more than 35 years without affinity or 25 years with).

Then, once thats done she should start writing a few Summae, with level limits around 3-4(as low as possible that still gives bonus to quality), 5-7, 6-8 and of course one with level limit 10.
Combine all that up together and she might get famous. Better still, if she doesnt have Com 5, she should bugger some magi to help her max it out, or if she´s lacking "Good teacher" find a way to aquire it. An extra 3 to quality would put her work into the "ooooh, thats GOOOD!" category. :wink:

Not to mention it could be more than one person writing under the same name.

While theoretically true, in my sagas I do not wish to have lvl 10 Summa for abilities (not even for Magic Theory). While Philosophiae isn't really unbalancing, it'll open a whole new can of worms.

Lvl 20 is 1050XP, let's say she starts out at lvl 5, so that leaves her 975XP to get to lvl 20. With an affinity, that's 650XP. Even assuming the (extremely high!) 10XP/season, that's 65 seasons = 16.25 continuous years of studying. Not to mention that you'll need 65(!) tractati of Q10 (that's a Com+4 author!) to get there. In my Mythic Europe 65 Q10 tractati on Philosophiae do not exist.

While it's possible under the RAW, personally I'd advise against it. Next time someone wants to make a L10/Q11 MT summa? Then you get in trouble with suspension of disbelief, as there is no reason magi would creep around at MT 3-5 for beginners, or 5-8 for expert, 8-12 for specialists. Everyone would be able to get to lvl 10 quite easily.

So the feasibility comes down to saga assumptions. I would personally allow a player character to achieve access to resources that will allow him/her to fulfill his goals, in return for stories. So the scholar could achieve this, but will do so by a series of adventures (like, say, traveling to Hades to question the spirit of Plato on a particular thorny issue in the theory of Forms, receiving tutelage in natural philosophy from a powerful angel in gratitude for aiding a saint, and being initiated into the secretive Cult of Pythagoras and given access to the lore it has collected over the eons). This solves the problem of why there aren't any more of these level 10 summae lying about - the player characters are Special(TM), they get opportunities mere NPCs never get - and more importantly does so in a fun-to-play-out way.

Fully agree. Basically, what I don't really like is that you can get to lvl 20 (a so fantastically high ability trait that you should be treated like those Mythic Artists of C&G) by reading hundreds of tractati written by people with a skill of 3-6 in the relevant ability. Those story seeds you posted are being noted down into my "for later stories" folder, thanks! :slight_smile:

I know it is stretching the possible, but I didn't claim she was completely logical, either :wink: It's a minor flaw driving her to become the best scholar in the world, and being female the only way to prove it is to write The Ultimate Book (tm). She hopes that living with a resident longevity expert will keep her frail body alive long enough to maybe finish it. I figure she should be able to do it by the time she is 100. Hopefully.

The covenant is still agreeable to having her as she contributes to the library, teaches and can do lab assistance now and then.

As for the availability of extreme books, that should be for another thread.

Book Learner helps too - then we're talking Com+1 authors.

That said, we're getting mighty far off topic, aren't we?

Completely understandable, but that is an arbitrary gameworld CHOICE by SG and/or players, not gaming or rules.
And for Philosophiae, dont forget Verditius magi. They could make superb use of such levels.

Exactly as my math showed yes. As i said, someone obsessed with affinity shouldnt take more than 25 years with a little luck. And in this case it was someone obsessed, within a scholarly environment(or access to such), with fair expectation of getting a longevity ritual available. Nothing odd in it.

I said roughly/average (~10XP), thats not the same as 65 all Q10. No, its a Com+0 to +5 with and without Good Teacher.
And really, with any kind of even slightest realism, the Order itself probably has more than this number of tractati all by themself. And i would expect their average somewhere between 9 and 11, because worse ones will not get copied or preserved while good ones does.
The scholarly sites of Europe probably has far far FAR more than 65, although their average will probably be slightly lower, but getting 65 at Q10 or ABOVE is probably quite realistic.

And remember what i said already, "With extensive correspondence and sending books back and forth, thats usually possible even if its not exactly easy.". Thats the real deal, can you haggle enough and make enough deals to get your hands on those books you need? For a less action-focused character this is excellent storymaterial really.

Actually no. You simply cant just say suddenly "you cant write that book" because you´re bending the rules "just because" and thats a really bad thing, and the player who has spent maybe 25-75 years to become able to write it is now :cry: . And because it can be made isnt the same as easy for others to get. And why stop at L10/Q11?
Add Good Teacher and you get L10/Q14.
Do you realise that even then, going from score 0 to 10 takes 20 seasons of just reading the SAME, EXTREMELY DESIRABLE book? And BTW, IF i my character can write that book by RAW, i would write a L8/Q20 or L6/Q26 instead, at least for starters. :wink:

Furthermore, while 3-5 or more likely 2-6 is fine for beginners, i would say 6-15 for experts and anything above 10 for specialists. Because really, you cant assume there are only young and middleaged magi around, and with the occasional 100-200 year old magi, some WILL be able to accomplish this.
And dont forget that its relatively easy to raise your Com to +5 (by ritual CrMe i mean). Due to that, there simply WILL be a quite decent amount of good books around. But again, they might not be EASY to get.

If we're in a simulationalist mood, I'd note that there are also immortal magi prancing around, some of which may be centuries old. A pre-Hermetic ascended Daimon can be thousands of years old, and even with the slow advancement his mode of being implies this means he can develop Philosophiae to arbitrarily high levels, if that has been even a minor consistent effort for him over the eons.

In our saga, we tend to have a variety of book names--some utilitarian, some attempting to sound medieval, and some funny.
Some examples of more serious attempts:
Aquam Bellicum: Tractatus on Aquam
Form and Substance: Tractatus on Creo
Aristotalian vs. Platonic Forms: Tractatus on Creo
Unbinding the Mortal Shackles: Tractatus on Perdo and Corpus (basically 2 volumes)

Some of the more humorous ones:
Why Horsies Are Pretty: A study - Tractatus on Animal
Why Lions Don't Make Good Pets: Tractatus on Animal
Why Stone Doesn't Burn: Tractatus on Terram
When People Annoy You: Tractatus on Perdo

What Fire Would Be Like If I Could Cast Spells About It: Tractatus on Ignem (written by an apprentice with an incredibly high Art score but no spells).

Intriguing - is there a story behind that? :slight_smile:

Yup... basically, the poor player got ribbed at least once or twice a session because she taught her apprentice ridiculously high Art scores yet held off on teaching spells for a while. So the net result is that he was halfway through his apprenticeship, with Art scores (especially Ignem) comparable to starting Magi, but not a single spell. I proposed this title for a book to much humor.

A couple others that ocurred to me, back in our 4th ed saga:

Paint the World Green!: Tractatus on Herbam
Paint the World Red!: Tractatus on Ignem

Those are a bit more obtuse; they're jokes on the video game Culdcept.

Oh i like those... :mrgreen:

Ill add some of ours(although the translation makes the names sound a bit more dull even than intended(and a lot less funny sometimes))
A Primer on illusions, Imaginem Summae, Lvl 8 Quality 16
Easy introduction to illusions, Imaginem Tractatus
Easy basics of illusions, Imaginem Tractatus
Easy to handle illusions, Imaginem Tractatus
Advanced illusions for anyone, Imaginem Tractatus
Spectacular illusions in 90 days, Imaginem Tractatus

[i]Influencing the weather I, Auram Tractatus

The essence of magic I, Vim Tractatus

An examination of magic part I, Magic Theory Tractatus

A primer on the magic interaction with plants, Herbam Summae

The logical world? part I, Artes Liberales Tractatus

Minds and Thoughts, Mentem Summae

How to avoid confrontation, Stealth Summae

Swift hands, Legerdemain Summae

The essence of fire, Ignem Summae

Fire is my friend I, Ignem Tractatus

Philosophical Musings part I, Philosophiae Tractatus

Making, Creo Tractatus
Seeing, Intellego Tractatus
Changing, Muto Tractatus
Destroying, Perdo Tractatus
Moving, Rego Tractatus

Mirages I, Imaginem Tractatus

Magicking the earth I, Terram Tractatus

The delicate nature of magic, Magic Theory Summae

The nature of the human and magic, Corporem Summae

The Basics of Seeing what is really there, Intellego Summae

A primer on what is reality, Intellego Summae

The obsolence of the strict apprentice system I, Teaching Tractatus

Morphing I, Muto Summae

How to mend the broken body, Chirurgy Summae

The actual shape of the world, Area Lore(World) Summae

Know your magic I, Magic Theory Tractatus

Magic Defense I, a how to, Parma Magica Tractatus

How to defeat magical defenses I, Penetration Tractatus

How to not loose your concentration I, Concentration Tractatus

How to aim well I, Finesse Tractatus

How to handle the unknown cultures I, Diplomacy Tractatus
How to handle the unknown cultures II, Charm Tractatus
How to handle the unknown cultures III, Etiquette Tractatus
How to handle the unknown cultures IV, Carouse Tractatus
How to handle the unknown cultures V, Folk Ken Tractatus
How to handle the unknown cultures VI, Charisma Tractatus
How to handle the unknown cultures VII, Intimidation Tractatus

How to travel through the unknown I, Athletics Tractatus
How to travel through the unknown II, Brawl Tractatus
How to travel through the unknown III, Climb Tractatus
How to travel through the unknown IV, Swim Tractatus
How to travel through the unknown V, Animal Handling Tractatus
How to travel through the unknown VI, Survival Tractatus
How to travel through the unknown VII, Chirurgy Tractatus
How to travel through the unknown VIII, Hunt Tractatus

Magic Lore from another place I, Magic Lore Tractatus

Meditation is good for you, Concentration Summae

Calmness of the soul, body and mind I, Concentration Tractatus

A primer on Precision, Finesse Summae
How to hit what you aim for, Finesse Summae

The flaws of the Enigma, Enigmatic Wisdom Summae