Brainstorm Breakthroughs

Games Discussion Ars Magica
41

Whereas I think that the having two different levels for temporary and permanent effects is self-contradictory under the Hermetic frame-work. It's clear that the levels are set as high as they are for game-balance reasons, rather than an in-setting justification. I also agree that they're too high, in as much as temporary things should be fairly accessable. I'd rather propose that you simply rule that Permanent ritual spells cause warping to the target proportional to the number of Pawns of vis used. It makes healing spells a bit more of a last ditch option, and favours spells which simply improve and speed healing, but it also means that any magus wanting to boost his stats pretty much guarantees himself twilight and a lot of warping which in turn shortens his life a great deal. That way I can see a mage being prepared to burn off a few years of life to get rid of a major penalty (which is a pleasant story event) and means that only the most insane or dedicated Bonisagus would actually try to boost himself all the way to Str or Int +5.

Instant healing being dangerous (but useful in extreme circumstances) is to me far more mythic and appropriate than a mage being unable to make himself temporarily stronger or faster.

42

Yep. Recreate Diedne magic and then integrate it properly. Or, indeed, any of the other virtues which boost Spontaneous magic. Making it any more powerful though will devalue Formulaic spells. Mind you, a breakthrough to allow spontaneous ritual spells would be nice. Useful only to extreme specialists, but kinda fun.

43

My magus has the Diedne virtue, and I would like to be better at spontaneous spells.

44

Well, my magus is about to write a nice tractatus about spontaneous magic (magic theory Q 12), to which covenant shall I send it? (it will be spread through the bonisagus folio of 1242, weehoo)

45

Minor:
The magus' casting total is not hampered by dominion auras, but botch dice are not changed.

Major:
The magus benefits from domiion auras much like a Merinita from fay auras.

46

There is an option about realm aligned spells somewhere in the books. Others will probably know which book and page.

47

There is (True Lineages, page 34) but it's so ridiculously underpowered compared to anything else that I'd just fold it into normal Hermetic magic, either as is or as a Mastery Option - probably the latter. Faerie magic makes your magic both magic and faerie aligned, rather than allowing you to, by research, tailor a single spell to be realm aligned. (As an aside, that section also claims that magical auras add to botch dice which contradicts the core rules that only a foreign aura does so - if magical auras increased botch dice, magi would have much shorter lives.)

That said, Dominion alignment is something which is terribly powerful. A mage who used such a spell to sin should expect some spectacular side-effects.

48

Don't know if this these were ever ressurected, but...

Setting enchantments in your Talisman so that the penetrate using your Art Scores instead of a separate penetration score enchanted in the item.

Enchantments that can use vis to accomplish enduring Creo effects (healing potions, endless water decanters, bowls that produce food, and etceteras)

These are both good ideas for a Verditius breakthrough or hidden mystery.

49

Ah, but neither do they require voice/sight (either natural or InIm) to target, beyond per + finesse (IE, they have to be targeted). Hence, they would be ideal for items, less so for normal spells.

Steve

50

A kind of group casting, each magus enhancing and taking care of some aspect of the spell.

Like, each magi must make a finesse + INT roll of 9 + 3/ magus involved. Each additionnal magus adds the lower of his technique and form involved.
Make botches nasty, and any error of the finesse roll is a spell failure.

51

I like this, though I'd make the Finesse rolls a flat 9 difficulty. Just adding extra magi increases the probability that one of them will fail linearly - making it more than that is just nasty. Add one botch die per caster though, I think, and make it a mastery ability to group cast a Formulaic spell (You know how to cast it perfectly yourself, but it takes effort to bring that in line with others)

Ars Magica does lack a decent combined casting mechanic, and this would work nicely.

52

Agreed. In the Ars5 core rules, there are no spells with non-standard targets or ranges, and only two with non-standard durations (mists of change and watching ward). Yet variant targets/ranges/durations can already be done by anyone inventing their own formulaic spell, so the motivation is probably not there too often for doing the painstaking, time-consuming research needed for a new standard, integrated range. Not grandiose enough, and not likely to give much renown (when anyone already can do it, except in spontaneous spells).

53

Why do you two not favor the 'Wizard's Communion'?

54

New "Spell modifier": Aura
Cost from +0 to +3 magnitudes.

This adds magnitudes to the spell so that the spell affect a zone, a bit like room, but need not be a room. But also, and more importantly, the Aura-spell affect people who happen to enter the zone. "Zone" can be metaphorical.

Exemple:

Eyes of the serpent
ReCo 25
Range: personnal; Duration: Sun; Target: Individual - Aura

Anyone who cross the eyes of the beneficiary of this spell will be paralysed as long as you keep eye contacts.

BASE: 5 (hold a body motionless)
Duration: Sun +2
Aura: +2 (Storyguide/troupe judgment call)

This is the same as having the same spell at Range:Eye, and Duration: Mom cast repeatedly each round. (a level 10 spell)

This was removed when converting from 4th to 5th, and I can see why: Auras bring a lot of problems with them.

This makes the rules system more comprehensive and coherent I might say, but at the same time it seems to be that something is lacking in the new rules without it.

A good exemple is Aura or Rightfull Authority, which in 4th edition affected anyone who came near the beneficiary of the spell. (from memory)
In 5th edition, most spells needs to be casted at the one to be affected, and so AoRA. (see ArM5)

Wards already works like an aura : they control (or supress, or stop) something that enter their zone. Checking the Rego Auram guideline, they cost one magnitude more than is needed to control what is warded. That +1 modifier for wards is not consistent with other Forms, but would be a balanced way to see it.

A few other spells works a bit like this in the core book.
See ReHe30 ArM5 p. 138: Treading the Ashen Path and the +1 fancy effect modifier.
P. 124 Break the Oncoming Wave range 10 paces from you !!

Many spell invented by player (either on this forum or in our saga) tends to work like that: I guess it is somewhat natural. That's why I try to figure out how to bring it into the 5th edition system without unbalancing it.
My 1,99 cents

:slight_smile:

55

For myself - because it feels very much like a fudge. It means that a characters ability to help with casting a spell or ritual has nothing to do with their understanding of the same, but rather their ReVi score. And, essentially, I'd rather that the requisites for helping someone cast the terrible ritual "Foot of the Fire God" which crushes and burns a city had at least some link to their Ignem score.

Wizard's Communion doesn't really let magi combine their efforts to produce something more powerful than one could - it just lets them cast a spell that one of them knows with added penetration. It's also ... well, comparitively safe.

56

Because we talked of a means to enhance spontaneous magic, not ritual magic.

Wizard's communion is great for rituals, but it is mercurian magic. I think a "group spont casting" should work differently, and more along the lines of diedne magic. I can't see a group of magi using "wizard's communion"-like rituals to improvise a spell on the fly.

Most of all? Once I had my idea of Group Spont Casting, I tried to imagine of such a thing would work, and created mecanisms fitting that vision: Magi trying to coordonate and link their incantations, each bringing a little something to the spell.

57

I like this idée

What if it was possible to use you’re Magic Theory score, when casting a spontaneous spell,

Or an affinity with spontaneous magic, that would function like an ability in 4ed.

58

Sorry for not following up on your current conversation, it's interesting but I have nothing to add to it.

Some idea about new Effect Modifier for enchanted Items:

+1 level / Second Trigger: allow for a second, normal trigger condition, that can be modified as per the normal rules.

+0 / Permanent effect for Weared object: Can be applied if the magical object is of Touch range and Sun duration, and affect only the wearer, this modifier will make the effect permanent as long as the magical object is weared. [Instead of costing +4, it's free, but you have to actualy wear the object, this one person at a time can profit from the magic.]

+1 level / +2 finesse : adds to the Finesse rolls for the modified effect. Does not change Initiative.

59

Perhaps not very powerful, but my maga is going to find out (i hope): remove the fertility problem by the longevity ritual.
The breakthrough my maga is actually working on, but since we found it too powerful, she will not discover it: removing the warping problem from longevity rituals. (while failing this one she will discover the above effect)

But a more general problem. Why would you try to discover only powerful thing, where useful things a much more interesting for roleplaying? I consider breakthroughs more something of roleplaying than something of making a powerful magus.

60

I see it as being reliant on both your knowledge of the art in question 'and' your ability to use it with another... and thus ReVi. i.e. You still have to cast the reduced level effect in the relevant art, so you need to be competent there as well.

I might personally consider a breakthrough to allow the use of the communion with spont. spells with the caveat that they would have to use ceremonial casting. Thoughts?