Perhaps we could read the breakthrough as merely allowing for attacks by something under the affect of hermetic magic in a manner that creates something that could be natural to not have to penetrate? So, if you give yourself claws, or create a rock, these things are no longer resistible, but pilum of fire will still be? That still seems like a pretty significant breakthrough, but makes an end run around the essential nature issue and addresses what was probably the point of the strangeness of the shapeshifter virtue.
Could one change a man with the shapeshifting virtue into an animal using Rego magic? If one changed a man with the shapeshifting virtue (into an animal) using Muto magic would he automatically revert to human form when the duration ends?
Just thinking out loud about what it could mean if the animal(s) are part of the shapeshifters essential nature.
It's been suggested before in this thread. I honestly cannot see how.
My first reaction would be:
- yes, use ReMe and the shapeshifter changes as per your command. Base 10 or 15 and you can issue the command: 'Change!'
- maybe, ReVi, taking over someones magical capability and activate it... would need a breakthrough
I think the original question was a bit different compared to my first reactions, but I think there is are still ways how you can use Rego to initiate the shapeshifting.
Or it could be that the Bjornaer are right and people using the shapeshift ability are soulstealers. (Though it's still handwavy to say that makes a difference)
Either way it calls into question whether a folkwitches use of the shapeshifting ability works the same way as other "shapeshifters" with the "same" ability. On one hand they seam to rely on fetishes or potions to use the ability. So their ability might be more like skinchangers or hermetic magic and involve an ongoing effects that warp and must penetrate for those affected to harm someone with MR.
On the other hand Folk Abilities like Sixthsense and Shapeshifting are the apparently the "same" abilities as the normal versions. So for instance a text on Sixth Sense written by non-folkwitch with that virtue would provide a study total for a witch if she read it. Also by the strictest sense of RAW there is no mention that the Folk use of shapeshifting produces different results. So it "must" mean that the end results are the same even though the use of fetishes and the limited duration of the potions suggest otherwise.
Interesting. I would say no to Rego. (Though as other have said ReMe and maybe ReVi would work) For me it raises questions about Muto magic. If you transform a man into a woman with a MuCo they would stay that way for the duration of the spell. If during that time you hit them with a transform woman to man spell they would change accordingly. They would be under the continuing effect of both spells but for all intents and purposes be their natural shape. If the second spell was a shorter duration then the first they would turn back into a woman but if the second spell where the same duration or longer they would seam cured when it was cast.
So lets say we have a shapeshifter who can turn into a sparrow, a shark and a wolf. What happens though if you MuCo the shapeshifter into a wolf. The spell would work no matter what shape they were, and if they happened to be in wolf shape in theory it wouldn't change them at all. When the spell expires would they go back to whatever shape they where before the spell was cast? There is no ongoing effect to kick back in and they are in a shape natural to them. Would the expiring magic make the effort to change the character back into a shape different from a wolf. Or to put it another way when the character's true nature reasserts itself couldn't they ground out to the comfortable alternative instead.
Hermetic Breakthrough?
Hmm.
ReCo(An) might be suitable for a guideline that transforms a person into his Heartbeast. InCo(An) might be suitable for detecting a person's Heartbeast. This doesn't seem like too huge a Breakthrough. Somewhere between Major and Minor. (Another Bjornaer conflict in the works: One faction thinks that they would gain power if all magi could get in touch with their Heartbeast. The other wants to keep the mystery in their Mystery. But if Bjornaer want to push this, they definitely have targets to study....) This isn't what is being asked though.
Hermetic Magic intrinsically cannot sustain an unnatural change. Others magics might be able to, to some degree. Shapeshifters are worthy of study for this reason, because the change for them is MuCo(An) Mom, yet the change persists. If this works, the next step is to become Size +3 permanently, or gain Eyes of the Cat. I think each is at least a major, probably Hermetic, breakthrough, though after a few of these are accumulated a generic Hermetic Breakthrough would allow all of these.
Of course, not all breakthroughs have to be permitted....
I like the question.
Going with the notion that the Shapeshifting virtue dodges the limits of magic by being an innate supernatural power integrating the Shapeshifter ability could provide you a virtue like this.
Hermetic Shapeshifter
[i]Minor, Hermetic[/i]
Your magic provides you an innate supernatural power to change shape like someone with the Shapeshifter virtue, invoking a momentary effect only at the moment of transformation. Using special MuCo spells you may change your shape into a variety of innate forms. You only have a limited number of such shapes to choose from, equal to your muto score divided by five rounded up, and must learn a separate spell to achieve each one. These shapes are most commonly mundane beasts but mundane plants and even other natural human shapes are possible. With your storyguides approval inanimate objects, and certain magical creatures might be appropriate.
Usable only by Magi with this virtue Hermetic Shapeshifter spells are all nominally MuCo with a base effect and form prerequisites appropriate to the specific shape the Magi assumes. (As per MuCo guidelines ArM5 pg. 132) All such spells must have the parameters R: Personal, D: Momentary, T: Individual. They function differently from standard hermetic Muto effects. Like other innate shapeshifters there is no ongoing magic past the moment of transformation so remaining in an alternate form does not warp. And a Hermetic shapshifter's mundane attacks against openants with MR while in an alternate shape do not need to penetrate to do damage. Also like shapeshifters and standard hermetic effects the character is still essentially human what ever their shape and subject to Mentem and Corpus effects. Unlike other Hermetic MuCo self-transformations the caster cannot cancel these changes at will. Instead a Hermetic Shapeshifters automatically learns a simple Muto corpus spell in addition to their normal spell compliment that can return them to their native human form.
Rise Again the Form of Man
Muto Corpus 3,
R: Personal, D: Momentary, T: Individual
The Hermetic Shapeshifter returns to his native human form.
From the MuCo guideline p. 132 "utterly change appearance".
(Base 3)
Integration Effects. Bjornaer would be utterly appalled by the introduction of this Virtue. Decrying it's possessors as soul stealers. Individual Bjornaer would be no more likely to learn it then the Shapeshifting ability nor would someone with this virtue be allowed induction into the mystery house. Further research could even provoke the house into rash action declaring wizards war or even attempting to withdraw from the Order.
Also while this virtue at face value breaks several hermetic limits. A lack of consensus among the Order's theoreticians as to how or even if the Shapeshifter virtue violates Bonisagus's Laws might prevent this innovation as being Heralded as a "true" Hermetic Breakthrough
As a Minor Mystery Virtue, I'd even remove the limit on the number of shapes, and allow such a magus to invent as many spells as desired. It's something nice to give those Gothic shapeshifters lurking on the fringes of Ex Misc.
Anyway,
Ken
This is a little too easy (and this guideline is pretty prone to abuse by players, IMHO)
I'd suggest looking instead at the spell to change an animal to human. The Beast remade, IIRC.
One reason I put the limit in, other than tying it thematically with the non-hermetic ability, is that a character with a focus and a good lab total is going to be able to crank out a ton of these spells per season. As a straight base effect plus the minimum parameters they are just that easy. Particularly since I allowed the potential for human to human transformations.
You may be right. I wanted a spell that was easy to cast still and silent and figured returning to your native form would be about the easiest thing you could do.