By the Power of Math!

So, a lot of the non-hermetic traditions are looked down upon by both the magi and the forum goers. However, I would contend that some of the non-hermetic traditions are actually quite powerful especially if abused properly.

The set-up: Our Gifted Mathematician (a.k.a. Learned Magician) shall use a route to absolute power that runs on a strange combination of amulets, charta, and stupidly powerful charms. The one wiggling requirement here is that we get to logically extend the various base effects upwards indefinably. Specifically we'll want a Succurro Magicam effect with a base of 80 which has been extended upwards from "Grant a supernatural virtue".

Now our Mathematician upon graduation will need a combined artes liberales + int of 9, an artes liberales of 5, a lab total in Succurro Magicam of 25 and strong amulet magic. Not easy but doable.

Now for are first action we shall invent the great charm of...
You're never gonna cast this Succurro Magicam 100 Duration: Season, Target: Individual Range: Touch
This has a similar effect to granting transformed being (human), but its been amped up to a base of 80. Its probably really cool. To bad you'll never cast this.
Base 80+3 season+1 touch.

Now with his lab total of 25 you might ask how he makes this? Easy, for inventing charms his lab total is multiplied by 5. That gives him 125 and he makes this in four seasons.

Great! Now on to making the following charta.
Respite from Distortion Succurro Magicam 35 Duration: Season, Target: Individual Range: Touch
This is made as an amulet or Charta. Grants transformed being (human). The target gains no qualities or inferiorities besides those automatic.
Base 20+3 season

Now you are probably wondering how our magician gets the +45 bonus to his lab total. He starts by grabbing 5 in form and material bonuses. Makes a horoscope for another +10, gets +10 from his virtue and a mighty+20 from his similar spell bonus. Now this provides two useful bits of help, 1 he doesn't warp and two he doesn't age. The warping is really important because he can now pile on the spell and not get picked up by some random power at high warping scores.

He'll want to spend the next season making this in amulet form. That way he'll not need to worry about losing even a few hours of age when the protection momentarily drops. But just living forever isn't all that fun if you can't gain godlike power. I suppose level 100 charms are pretty cool and eventually something this dude could pull off. He could also get high cult lore and initiate himself in whatever. But that takes way to long. We want infinite cosmic power now! We'll make a level 100 charm that grants powers, which will in turn let us create this charta.

Grant Power X Succurro Magicam 25 or 35 Duration: Season, Target: Individual Range: Touch
This is made as an amulet or Charta. It grants a specific X power virtue.
Base (10 or 20)+3 season

The main use of this ability is to give yourself power you would otherwise lack access too. Since nothing is preventing you from repeatedly iterating these powers you can build up truly insane powers. Ritual powers can even create momentary effects lasting beyond the end of the effect, when you have confidence to burn. For example granting virtues that never fade.
Now that you have infinite power you want to not die. Parma Magica is probably unknown to you nor do you have inhuman soak, so while powerful you are still mighty squishy. You need both protection from magic and raw damage. Again we turn to Succurro Magicam, by now I think you understand how to make high level charms so we will create this charta:

Grant Immunity X Succurro Magicam 25 or 35 Duration: Season, Target: Individual Range: Touch
This is made as an amulet or Charta. It grants a specific Lesser/Greater Immunity to (x) virtue.
Base (10 or 20)+3 season

Somethings to become immune to include all the forms, and all techniques when combined with corpus, mentum or vim. Then you should be reasonably invincible although the chartas will need to be remade each season leaving you vulnerable for about a week after the start of each season. (Since you don't actually need sleep and each charta can be made in nine hours or less). Anyway at this point you can basically do whatever you want. And those hermetic magi thought their high and mighty system was better than the math of Learned Magicians. The fools!!!

Commentary: Any system that allows for granting of virtues runs into instant problems. Virtues are really powerful. Mythic companions are supposedly on par with magi due to their bonus virtues: why would you allow anyone to make virtues for themselves? On a side note while a GM might be stricter about similar effects, this is still possible with a more advanced Learned Magician. Finally, warping isn't a good balancing measure. A major virtue kills it and even in core you can just mind control a magic creature and work through it or work through your familiar. Oh and any tradition that can outright grant magical virtues can pull off something similar. So comments?

Or the Herbalism... ... a-ars.html

Sorry the Spanish, i've made this Alternate Tradition that use the Herbalism (A&A General Ability substitute to Un-learned) and i thought to make this Learned Magicians mixed with Pharmakopians, but no educated greatly.
The Prize for the Virtues are of course the Warping, really high. If you design the effects or are made personal (Imposible with Chartae/Amulet), the continous effect still.

There is a thread called "Frightening Munchkinism" or something like that where people developed both hermetics and non hermetics folloowing the pattern you just posted. My best contribution was a priest of apollo (ancient magic) able to obliterate whole Boundaries (including covenants) at Arcane range. I also really liked some other conepts floating around. The trained giant (gruagach) turb is something that we are currently using in our saga. Quite fearsome

I'd argue that using Succuro/Magicam, Give/Blessing, Myrrh etc, to confer supernatural powers ought to be subject to the same rules as using hermetic Vim magic to affect foreign spells and powers: the caster must be familiar with with the new magics being granted on some level rather than simply being able to invent any power they want.

It doesn't necessarily prevent the abuse being talked about, but at least you can get some cool stories out of it! :smiley:

I have a great interest in the Learned Magicians, so this drew my interest. Unfortunately, I don't know what transformed human does, or why it requires a base 80 effect, which is essentially homebrewing anyway.

It's a supernatural virtue from 'Realms of Power: Magic" that essentially transforms your character into a Magic-aligned being with all the benefits and drawbacks thereof. Normally, the benefits and drawbacks of having Might are fairly equal - You get immunity to aging, MR, and supernatural powers, but are subject to apotropaic, summoning, and warding magics as well as having to deal with acclimation and reduced study totals. The ability to revoke the virtue at will, however, effectively negates those drawbacks...


These guys can be very good. They can grant themselves greater powers and then make such a power variable, solving some of their penetration problems. They can grant themselves greater or lesser immunities to fit a situation on a day's notice. They cannot give themselves Gentle Gift (a Hermetic Virtue), but can cause other people to not mind the Gift. Transformed Human eliminates warping while it is active! They can boost Finesse to incredible levels; this is less useful because it must Penetrate but does allow incredible crafting.

Variants can be fun too. How about a learned musician version of these guys, with university degrees in music? The power of song, truly. And maybe the various schools of learned magic are truly the worldwide, universal magic, since a Chinese, Egyptian, Persian, etc learned magicians are fundamentally using the same Artes Liberales as everyone else, since they are living in the same world....

They also get 30xp/season during their "apprenticeship," which is very good.

Of course, an unsympathetic SG can make these guys useless. That's true of many traditions. (Oh dear, 1 pawn of vis per decade! Average text quality is 4!)

But the best thing of all is probably the breakthrough available to Hermetic Magi who study these guys. The ability to bring a full, Verditius lab total to bear on a charged item that is ready in less than a day? Not a minor effect at all.



I am working on one of them, but i am using Music like his Lab Ability. They are based upon bars and anothers Mystic Musicians from Ancient and Middel Ages.

Actually having might 0 is what really negates the drawbacks. Acclimation is easy to handle at that point and it reduces study totals by 0. You don't even get any powers with just that virtue.

you can get qualities by balancing them.... and no warping means no twilight or equivalent on megabotches...