Hi,
I'm wondering if a magus with tethering (or any other virtue allowing to use tethered spells) could invent a ReCo b15, touch : transfer your level of fatigue towards someone ("the gift of vigor") then cast it on someone, so that person is the effective caster as per tethering, and has no choice to transfer his or her fatigue level to you?
HOHTL p97: for tethering: Magical “tethers” allow the caster to give the reins of his spells to others, or tie them to an inanimate object. Control may be passed to another person within range of the caster, who may treat the effect as if he or she were the caster; or to anything that can hold the spell like a charged item, casting it automatically when an appropriate target comes into range. A tether only lasts as long as the duration of the effect it controls, and cannot be made permanent. Ritual spells cannot be tethered.
Nothing in it seems to say the "caster" can decide not to cast the spell, and especially it says "casting it automatically when an appropriate target comes into range". So if you tether the gift of vigor to someone by touch, it becomes the caster for a momentary instant and the spell will target anyone into range, ie you since you are touching the "caster".
May, means they do not have to. Have a bunch of well trained grogs who are willing to give the magi energy, it works. I would suggest make sure it's not a magi with Blatant gift trying to drain the life energy from "willing" participants though.
well I did read that as in you can decide to stop an effect, if it were at concenration duration (the example of a flying spell, where you can decide to stop flying). A caster of a momentary spell cannot decide not to cast a spell or if the duration is diameter, you cannot decide that a spell ends if you want it to end by principle.
So in my reading, that part was not about "be able to not cast a spell" but "be able to stop using it"
If your reading is the right one, and thus if the spell must not really be cast does this mean a magus with magic addiction can use tethered spells to make the magic produce no visible effect by just tethering them to a person next to him who would then decide not to cast them?
Yes, however, the magi is a magic addict. The Storyguide should remind the player an addict does not just casually pass away what they are addicted to.
My opinion:
There is a visible effect; the addicted mage casts (gestures, verbal incantations, etc) and rolls to generate a casting total -- which includes a chance of botching & generating warping and Twilight. If they succeed, then they are perfectly free to pass the result to someone else, who can choose not to manifest any effects.
It is a little bizarre, and it doesn't help the addicted mage in any way, but it is possible.
This doesn't work. There are two different parts of Tethering, and it's a little unclear which you're talking about using. They're not the same. And then there are general issues, too.
When you use Tethering, you are still casting the spell. You roll to cast the spell, paying the Fatigue for doing so. This loss comes after the transfer. So the transfer comes before you even get to Tethering.
For the first part (control), look at Tethering again. You pass control of a spell to another. That means you must control a spell. So you cast your spell. Now it's under your control and you can hand off control to someone else. However, you've already transferred Fatigue.
For the second part (to an object), look at Tethering again. First, it's questionable if a person can really count as an object to begin with. Second, the object is never said to be the caster.
For the first bullet, it wouldn't really matter since it's a formulaic spell and in most cases, I have never seen a magus spend fatigue if not in a huge divine aura for casting this. I assumed the spell would be used by an already tired magus desiring to refresh himself.
For the 2d and 3d bullet : what if the object is for example a wand, but is a human turned into a wand. It's thus an object. Or if that doesn't work (in some way if you say "it's not an item, and is only target-able by corpus... which is quite weird [ and I would never do so because then in my saga every apparent sword ("item"- would be a Muto'ed something else (animal, or even human bodies) to confuse magi and other sorcerer]), do the opposite and turn a wand into a human. Sure that human person would lack intelligence but the human body has fatigue per nature. But it's essential nature is still a wand so the "object" part of tethering would apply.
The main blocking factor would be that "caster" argument. So that's the main issue to find a solution for. Maybe first MuMe(Co) base 25 iirc to turne your mind into a human body and cast it on your body; tethering is not even needed.
I think you missed the point. You dump the Fatigue to be transferred into the spell before you even finish casting the spell, as that potential Fatigue loss from casting happens when you finish casting the spell. That still matters quite a bit. It means even if you could get past the other bullet points, it still wouldn't work.
How about D:Held?
Could you Fatigue yourself, somehow using Spell Timing, and rest 10 minutes or more. Then later in the day, release the spell to restore new Fatigue.
You'd have to deal with Contentration, but that's solvable.
I was thinking similar. It seems like you might be able to use it as a battery for yourself. But I'm not sure that actually works for a different reason: the exchange of Fatigue levels determines how much you put into the spell. If you exchange with yourself, you don't change the level. I'm not even sure this spell works at all with Tethering to an object, as the spell needs to know the Fatigue level you're exchanging with for the spell to even be cast properly.
So far I've only found one way that definitely works as a Fatigue battery. My problem with my method is that without adding a house rule on top of it, it becomes truly gross. The method is to make an invested item. You put this spell in it. That seems useless at first, as the item has no Fatigue levels to give. However, you also invest an effect to turn it into an animal. Now you just need to determine the best way to trigger the spell and have the animal stick by you. Here's the kicker: you make the Duration of the MuTe(An) effect Diameter or Concentration and allow it to end soon thereafter, and you give it plenty of uses per day. When it becomes an animal again, this is technically a new animal, so it should have fully Fatigue levels, as the item had none to go missing. But that makes this an unending Fatigue battery. So you need a house rule that somehow the inanimate item maintains Fatigue levels it doesn't have and needs to be in animal form to regain them or something like that.
OK it took me 5 readings, but I finally understand why it doesn't work. It was very hard because I didn't catch what in our posts was not working together. It's so hard sometimes to understand english ^^.
For your battery, that's what I was going for in my other points, it doesn't even use tethering at all. The version I tried to use in the past was a charged item then a enslave the mortal mind/entrancement or similar on the user of the charged item to use it and transfer the fatigue to the character.
It didn't please me as much to force the holder but it was working until the SG just let that guideline go because it was broken in items.
The problem with that approach is that the item is the caster, so the item needs to be the one exchanging Fatigue levels, which it doesn't have. Same problem with the Familiar, as the bond is the thing that is enchanted, so it's the bond that must supply the Fatigue levels. Neither of these approaches is actually valid.
You need a solution where the item firing off the effect actually has Fatigue levels to exchange, which is why my approach uses MuTe(An) to turn it into an animal, which has Fatigue levels.
Is there something preventing to turn a living animal into a magical item? (if it's only because "it moves", well turn it to a wooden wand while you enchant it, each day or for the year if something in the rules say the item must remain static during the full season).
Well, they're supposed to be "physical creations" and "items." We do know living trees can be enchanted. But we do treat plants as things that are shaped, very differently from how we treat animals. And animals seem to have their chosen place as Familiars. So while it's not explicit, it seems pretty strongly implied that you cannot enchant a living animal as a magic item.
I don't buy things like turning an animal into a wooden wand. If that would work, we could just turn anything into an animal and then get it as a Familiar, including people. And we could do that with spirits and other things that would normally require special Virtues. If that's the case, why even bother specifying it needs to be an animal? That it is specified suggests this won't work.
However, there are ways around this. You can enchant a corpse, and you can bring the corpse back to life if it was an animal rather than a person. You might be able to use Binding to attach a spirit to an animal or person and give the animal or person the ability to use The Gift of Vigor; I'd need to review Binding to make sure the power is in the creature rather than the bond, though.