Casting Tablet Question

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

How does one build penetration in casting Tablets (from Covenants) ?
I can´t find where the rules for it are.......

Because of the overhelming Response I´am more specific :
I´am refering to Casting Tabletts (Pg.89 the Covenants Book,below the Chapter Opus Types)

2

It works the same as for a normal spell: subtract the Spell Level from your Casting Total.

This could be very negative, obviously.

3

from this and the text i conclude that penetration skill is not included in the caster's penetration total. "... do not have Penetration bonuses unless built in by the author" p.90 of covenants

I don't see how a penetration bonus "built in by the author" could work (unless the author had a magical potency virtue)

4

And there are a few more things to be clarified for tablets:

How are the Penetration bonuses build into the spell's level?
How much Penetration bonus can the author build into the spell?
His penetration ability? With or without mastery?
Is the multiplier for the type of arcane connection used?
Can the author additionally specify or incorporate sympathetic connections?

Are the virtues and flaws of the author affecting the spell incorporated into the tablet?
Does the caster add his virtues and flaws to the casting score?

If the author designs the spell for ceremonial casting, does the caster add his Artes Liberales and Philosophiae to the casting score? Or are the Artes Liberales and Philosophiae of the author used? Or both?

Any single type of arcane connection to be used, are specified by the author at writing:
Are the example connections from AM5 page 84 enough, or should they be more explicit? E.g.: Blood of the target or blood of the dragon XY?

I would really like to add tablets to our saga!
Regard,
adumbratus

5

Guys, you are overthinking this.

I don't see how a penetration bonus "built in by the author" could work

It works like this: the author of the tablet chooses the Penetration bonus of his spell. If you can't reach the casting total for the spell's level + Penetration bonus, using the casting rules for tablets, you can't use his tablet. Go get a weaker tablet.

That is, the author had a maximum (level + penetration) total when he is putting things together, he chooses how to balance those factors, and you don't get to change his balances. If you can't handle the total you get from them, you can't handle the tablet.

Tablet spells need a "Penetration bonus" to have a Penetration other than 0, which would not get through magic resistance.

How are the Penetration bonuses build into the spell's level?

They aren't. They are built into the casting total of the spell.

How much Penetration bonus can the author build into the spell?

As much as he can conventionally muster.

His penetration ability? With or without mastery?

Whatever he has the chops for...of course if he makes it too high, then only people with the same virtue set will be able to use his tablet.

Is the multiplier for the type of arcane connection used?

If the author says so, then yes, but this makes the AC absolutely compulsorary.

Can the author additionally specify or incorporate sympathetic
connections?

Yes, but again, these are absolutely compulsorary for every use of the tablet, if he does so.

Are the virtues and flaws of the author affecting the spell incorporated
into the tablet?

It depends. 8) Mystery initiatio,n you need. If you make a tablet with an Enigmatic Spell, the a person without Enigmatic wisdom can't cast it. If you have a spell that requires Faerie Magic, then, again, no.

That being said, if you have Magic Focus (Blowing stuff up), then no, the reader doesn't need that. If they can't get to your casting total without it, that's bad luck for them.

Does the caster add his virtues and flaws to the casting score?

He does for the writing bit: you don't for the casting bit.

If the author designs the spell for ceremonial casting, does the caster
add his Artes Liberales and Philosophiae to the casting score?

No. You add the author's.

Any single type of arcane connection to be used, are specified by the
author at writing:

Yes.

Are the example connections from AM5 page 84 enough

Yes.

6

Thank you for the answers!
Putting all together I came up with following:

Step by step guide to tablets

  1. The author has to learn and master the spell.
  2. The author specifies at writing: the Range, Duration, and Target of the spell; the exact amount and Art of raw vis consumed; and any single type of arcane connection (and sympathetic, if necessary) to be used. The example connections from AM5 page 84 are detailed enough. Virtues and Flaws which are mandatory to learn the spell are incorporated.
  3. The author can add a casting bonus up to his (Artes Liberales + Philosophiae). If he does so, the caster has to use ceremonial casting for the tablet. The Author can add a vis boost to the casting score, the exact amount and Art of raw vis have to be specified in step 2 and are absolutely compulsory for every use of the tablet.
  4. The author can add a Penetration Bonus up to the maximum he can generate for the spell. If he cannot achieve this Penetration Bonus without using arcane and sympathetic connection(s), he has to specify these in step 2 and they are absolutely compulsory for every use of the tablet.
  5. The author writes down the tablet from the same pool as laboratory texts:

Title
Technique Form Level
Range Duration Target, non-ceremonial or ceremonial or Ritual
Requisites
Vis: amount(s) and art(s)
Arcane (and sympathetic) Connections
Casting Bonus
Penetration Bonus
Description

  1. To cast from the tablet the magus must have the Virtues and Flaws specified and may not change anything else laid down by the author in step 2-4.
  2. The magus determines the Casting Total:
    Stamina + Technique + Form + Aura + Casting Bonus + Stress Die
    Technique and Form are modified by requisites and virtues & flaws of the caster. Only the Casting Bonus of the tablet is added, nothing else.
  3. Then the magus subtracts the Spell Level and the Penetration Bonus of the tablet from the Casting Total and looks up the result on the table on page 90 of Covenants.
  4. The caster determines the Penetration by subtracting the Spell Level from the Casting Total and adding the Penetration Bonus of the tablet. No other penetration bonus is added!

Any comments, additions or changes?
I am still not sure about step 7.

Regard,
Adumbratus

7

Does the author have to master the spell?

8
  1. I see two options here.
    4.1 The Author uses his penetration total de fix the penetration value of the tablet.
    4.2 The author builds the penetration total by adding +2 per extra level of the tablet + bonus from AC

I personally think 4.2 would be more balanced. basically it comes down to creating a charged item with extras...

  1. I think that the prnetration is also already built in the tablet. You cannot alter it. the spell weather works or fails with the presets of the tablet.

Ps. & yes, the author needs to have mastered the spell

W

9

It might be cleaer to call the casting bonus in 3 a "Ceremonial Casting Bonus". You could call it that in the later maths, too.

I'd just like to also point out that although this length and preciseness seem good on a mailing list, in the book it would have taken too much space.

10

It would have been simple to say take charged Item guidelines & apply 'Casting Tablets' template to them.

Ceremonial casting Bonus
AC management
Etc.

Any how, glad to see casting from text is back again. I would have like to read that it was an adaptation from Mercurian magics but I guess I can add this myself in my campaign.

W

11

I had this at first until I realised that the author may include a casting bonus from vis. And I wanted the tablet format as lean as possible.

Agreed. :slight_smile:

A built in Penetration Total (not Penetration Bonus) would have been simpler, but obviously not intended, see the post of David Chart. Unfortunately the 2 pen for 1 spell level does not work with Penetration Bonus. The Penetration Bonus from step 4 does not increase the spell level! Therefore the change in step 8.

Regard,
adumbratus

12

ahh... Let us try an example:

Casting Tablet: Summon the King of the mountain Level 50

Author Luganius Of Merinita
Arcane Connection Penetration Bonus against the fey lord of the mountain (A part of the lord's shadow (+4),Symbolic representation of him(+2))
Vis use for ritual 10 (4 Rego, 6 Vim)
Vis used for penetration 10 Vim
Ceremonial casting

Caster Vistugras, Filus of Luganius
Re(4)Vi(16)
Aura: +6

Casting total= ReVi(20) + aura + Mastery of tablet(1)+ Artes Liberales of Caster(3) + Philosophie of Caster (3) + Vis (20) = 47+ aura
Penetration total = Casting total + Penetration skill(Caster) + Penetration Bonus(caster) - Tablet level = 47 + 3 - 50 + die = 0 + die + Aura Interactions

Vistugras cast the mighthy level 50 ritual with a penetration total of 0 + penetration bonus + die + aura interactions at the most probable cost of one fatigue level & 20 pions of vis. Most probably the king will resist & nothing will happen except meaby that the king might feel disturbed.

Hmmmm... most unsatisfying. It looks like learning the spell will always be more beneficial & as easy/hard as casting from a tablet. Only spells that do not require penetration might benefit from tablet casting unless I'm missing something (most probably am)

W

13

It doesn't give you an advantage over the original writier of the tablet, no. It does make you more versatile, though. Sure it's better to know the spell, but knowing the spell takes you a season, mimimum, or you can have a library full of these things, which take you no time (because they can be copied by other people).

14

Agreed. I was hoping it would be more as follows:

Casting Tablet: Aegis of the Earth Tablet Level 80 (Spell level + skills (ceremonial casting free) + Penetration levels)

Aegis of the Earth 50
Author Luganius Of Merinita
Arcane Connection Penetration Bonus of +60 against the fey lord of the mountain (A part of the lord's shadow (+4), Symbolic representation of him(+2))
Vis use for ritual 10 (4 Rego, 6 Vim)
Mastery of +4
Penetration skill +6
Penetration Levels 20 > 40 penetration
Ceremonial casting +10

Caster Vistugras, Filus of Luganius
Re(4)Vi(16)
Aura: +6

Casting Total = ReVi(+20) + Local Aura + Mastery of tablet(+1) + Ceremonial Casting Author(+10) = 31 + Local Aura
Penetration total = Built in penetration of tablet = 60 + die + Aura Interactions (Add penetration bous of +60 due to AC againt th king of the mountain himself for a total of +120 +die + Aura interactions)

Vistugras will be able to cast the tablet at the cost of a few fatigue levels & meaby a bit of warping:

31 + 6 - 80 = (-33)

Luganius gave this tablet to his filus as he feared that his final twilight was approching & that the Mountain king would come & destroy all that he swore to protect.

W

15

Sorry, I may not be following your notation, but you are allowed to write in Arcane Connections. So, you can include "Must use X", which lets you use the Fae dude's shadow, in your example.

16

I think the question at this point is, what is the benefit of including an arcane connection is if the penetration for the spell is already precalculated? Does the author Penetration x Arcane Connection get added to the spell's penetration in addition to the penetration that got "baked in" the level of the tablet?

17

Indeed..I just did not define the penetration bonus to would give to poor Vistugras

"Vistugras cast the mighthy level 50 ritual with a penetration total of 0 + penetration bonus + die + aura interactions at the most probable cost of one fatigue level & 20 pions of vis. Most probably the king will resist & nothing will happen except meaby that the king might feel disturbed. "

If we give him a penetration skill of 4 & a mastery of 2 we find:

0 + 36 + die + Aura interactions = 39 + die

The King of the mountain will most probably resist...

W

18

Well the point is that it allows you to include a higher precalculated Penetration, obviously.

But to go back the the inital poster's point, no...you don't get to do things with casting tablets better than if you knew the spell yuorself. If you did, you'd never learn spells, you'd just spin up copies of casting tablets projected from a storage device and read them, instead. Writing these casting tablets would be the job of a highly-paid menial caste.

19

Ahem, the caster adds only his Stamina, Technique and Form modified by requisites and virtues & flaws. Everything else is determined by the author.

Let us do it step by step:

Author Luganius Of Merinita (Artes Liberales 5, Philosophiae 5, Penetration 6)

  1. He has learned and mastered Summon the King of the Mountain ReVi 50
  2. He specifies: Vis use for ritual 10 (4 Rego, 6 Vim), Vis used for boost to casting score 10 Vim, Arcane Connection (A part of the lord's shadow), Sympathetic Connection (Symbolic representation of him).
  3. He decides to include ceremonial casting, this gives a casting bonus of 10 (Artes Liberales 5 + Philosophiae 5). Additionally he gets another 20 from the 10 Vim Vis.
  4. He can generate a Penetration Bonus of 6 x (1 + 4 + 2) = 42 for the Spell (Penetration 6, Arcane Connection A part of the lord's shadow (+4), Sympathetic Connection Symbolic representation of him(+2)). He decides to include a Penetration Bonus of 39.
  5. He writes down the tablet:
    Tablet: Summon the King of the Mountain ReVi 50
    Ritual
    Vis: 4 Rego, 16 Vim
    Arcane Connection: A part of the fey lord's shadow, Sympathetic Connection: Symbolic representation of the lord
    Casting Bonus 30
    Penetration Bonus 39
    Caster Vistugras, Filius of Luganius (Sta(3)Re(4)Vi(16), Aura: +6 )
  6. He determines the Casting Total: Stamina(Caster) + Technique(Caster) + Form(Caster) + Aura + Casting Bonus(Tablet) + Stress Die = 3 + 4 + 16 + 6 + 30 + Stress Die = 59 + Stress Die
  7. He determines Casting Total – Spell Level – Penetration Bonus = 59 + Stress Die – 50 – 39 = Stress Die – 30. Most of the time he will receive 1 Warping Point, 4 Fatigue levels.
  8. He determines Penetration Total = Casting Total + Penetration Bonus(Tablet) – Spell Level = 59 + 39 – 50 + Stress Die = 48 + Stress Die

Vistugras will cast the spell unless he botches, he will normally get 1 warping point and he has a 90% chance to Summon the King of the Mountain.

Well, same author, new tablet:
Author Luganius Of Merinita (Artes Liberales 5, Philosophiae 5, Penetration 6)

  1. He has learned and mastered Aegis of the Hearth ReVi 50. His mastery is 4 and he has Penetration Mastery.
  2. He specifies: Vis use for ritual 10 (4 Rego, 6 Vim), Arcane Connection (A part of the lord's shadow), Sympathetic Connection (Symbolic representation of him).
  3. He decides to include ceremonial casting, this gives a casting bonus of 10 (Artes Liberales 5 + Philosophiae 5).
  4. He can generate a Penetration Bonus of (6 + 4) x (1 + 4 + 2) = 70 for the Spell (Penetration 6, Mastery 4, Arcane Connection: A part of the lord's shadow (+4), Sympathetic Connection: Symbolic representation of him(+2)) against the King of the Mountain. He decides to include a Penetration Bonus with a maximum of 30. He does not need the Sympathetic Connection for this, but he likes the picture of the fey lord.
    Tablet: Aegis of the Hearth, especially against the King of the Mountain ReVi 50
    Ritual
    Vis: 4 Rego, 6 Vim
    Arcane Connection: A part of the fey lord's shadow, Sympathetic Connection: Symbolic representation of the lord
    Casting Bonus 10
    Penetration Bonus 30 (only 10, if it is not the King of the Mountain)
    Luganius gave this tablet to his filius as he feared that his final twilight was approching & that the Mountain King would come & destroy all that he swore to protect...

Caster Vistugras, Filius of Luganius, studies the Tablet:
7. The magus determines the Casting Total: Stamina(Caster) + Technique(Caster) + Form(Caster) + Aura + Casting Bonus(Tablet) + Stress Die = 3 + 4 + 16 + 6 + 10 + Stress Die = 39 + Stress Die
8. The magus determines Casting Total – Spell Level – Penetration Bonus = 39 + Stress Die – 50 – 30 = Stress Die – 41. No spell, 10 Warping and 5 Fatigue.
9. The magus determines Penetration Total = Casting Total + Penetration Bonus(Tablet) – Spell Level = 39 + 30 – 50 + Stress Die = 19 + Stress Die against the King of the Mountain, Stress Die – 01 against everybody else.

And concludes that he will not be able to use the tablet. Perhaps he should give it to a Criamon for the warping? But his parens insisteted on learning Wizard’s Communion. He gathers his four sodales and the accumulated levels are 100. Enough to use the tablet (lvl 50 x 2). The modified Spell Level is 50 / 5 = 10.

  1. The magus determines the Casting Total:
    Stamina(Caster) + Technique(Caster) + Form(Caster) + Aura + Casting Bonus(Tablet) + Stress Die = 3 + 4 + 16 + 6 + 10 + Stress Die = 39 + Stress Die
  2. The magus determines Casting Total – modified Spell Level – Penetration Bonus = 39 + Stress Die – 10 – 30 = Stress Die – 01.
  3. The magus determines Penetration Total = Casting Total + Penetration Bonus(Tablet) – Spell Level = 39 + 30 – 10 + Stress Die = 59 + Stress Die against the King of the Mountain, 39 + Stress Die against everybody else.

Vistugras will cast the spell with only fatigue loss and the King of the Mountain will not pop in for a surprise visit.

I like the second tablet because it throws light on a few questions:
How is the Penetration Multiplier integrated, especially if it does not apply to everyone affected by the spell effect?
How does Wizard’s Communion work with Tablets?

And now a really nice one:
Can I use Tablets with Wizard’s Communion to cast a spell with Wizard’s Communion?

As shown in the 2 examples:

Regard,
adumbratus

20

Nice!

Much more clear than my examples :slight_smile:

A Few details to be cleared out still...

  • You did not take in account the mastery level of the author in the 1st example. Was it intentionnal?
  • Can the caster gain a mastery skill in the casting of a specific tablet?

"8. The magus determines Casting Total – Spell Level – Penetration Bonus = 39 + Stress Die – 50 – 30 = Stress Die – 41. No spell, 10 Warping and 5 Fatigue."

This is where I wen't wrong. Thanks for saving casting tablets for me.

W