Character Creation Discussions (OOC)

Also, I would do father Luc with a bunch of holy aspected virtues rather than a holy method. But having a righteous person in the covenant sounds good to me.

I like the slightly heretic byzantine merchant better than the slightly merchant heretic Jew :slightly_smiling_face:

Also, maybe he would like to accompany Regulus to Normandy (we will pass by Paris when returning after all), or follow Perion or Wolfgang when they go to the Rhine.

I can see him working with either of the covenant's magi, so for me it's a yes.

About the hedge wizard, I get you... but at the same time, it's kinda like saying "a knight is the poor man's Flambeau". =9

If I stat Father Luc, he is going to be a divine hedge wizard, in function if not in name. But I'm having trouble thinking of a pair of Method and Power that is both useful for the group and brings something that couldn't easily be done with hermetic magic. Maybe that's why you recommended avoiding M&P?

Also, do we prefer faerie trouble or church trouble?

Yeah, that's why I don't recommend them. You hyper specialise to do something that a Magus can do with like a level 20 formulaic spell.

But supernatural virtues are often a thing people can't do

Learned Magicians are often priests, that could be a way to go.

Sense Holiness/Unholiness is really the only supernatural ability that magic can't replicate, and the way it interacts with MR is a very harsh limit on it's usefulness. (Far too much, IMO.)

But hedge magic or holy magic doesn't have to be useful to be fun.

Byzantium is less of a tie-in now, but either merchant could work. not being in the Hanseatic league could be a tie-in, cause the Order offers a way to trade while completely ignoring them.

I was thinking of something aligned with the divine if I go for father Luc, and something that doesn't require him to have a lab at all.

What about this small iteration on the concept:

  • True Faith and Banishing (from HoH:S, p.118), + Magic Sensitivity and Premonitions (all aligned with the Divine).
    • Banishing gives him the ability to banish (Realm) creatures from a certain area for Sun duration. Not as good as a good Rego specialist, but can still shine when required.

Story flaw Plagued by Supernatural (some faerie creature around the village, that he has managed to keep away... until now, at least).

This is assuming we want our village priest to be more present in covenant affairs. There is nothing wrong with him being just a regular priest. ^^

@RafaelB You're right about bringing discussion over here. There were two ideas going on when creating Mariana originally, and doing so started spreading her out a lot (Flambeau + Madres & Matrones + Cult of Heroes + 5 or 6 Arts getting pushed). I'm trying to clean all that up. I feel like pushing Apromar Flambeau would be too much overlap, so I'm now looking at the Creo/social end of Mariana instead. I think I've got a cleaner version that accomplishes a lot: Mechanical/Rustic Maga with the Gentle Gift focusing on Creo. I think this will keep her distinct enough and fairly parallel to the old idea. Some big start-up benefits: no Mystery Cult and no Familiar - far less messy.

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I think it would be interesting to see how two Apromor Flambeau with different backgrounds and motivation develop over time, but well.

The new concept seems nice.The initial one had some focus in Mentem, correct? Are we looking at a CrMe rusticani then? What about motivations and story flaw?

The thought is to retain a lot of the ideas from before, but simplified. So she'll still be dealing a lot with House Mercere, but not the same level of recruiting and cult membership (sure, Cult of Mercury like a quarter or so of the Order, but not a pivotal Cult of Heroes person). Cutting back on the Mentem but starting with the Gentle Gift, so actually better socially. Lots of Creo, so CrMe is still quite viable, but working with Co more to start so I can sell Longevity Rituals and magic items to the Redcaps. I'm thinking very similar motivations and Story Flaw to before; I'm not trying to change that so much as make things less messy.

Having trouble reconciling the Rusticani tradition with any form of cult membership. They tend to be a bit outside of the regular Hermetic circles.

Also have some trouble with the statement "Cult of Mercury like a quarter or so of the Order". That seems way too many.

In my opinion, far less than half of the Order belongs to any mystery cult (putting aside the Mystery Houses). And not all the cults described in the books actually exist in a given saga (again, probably less than half). So let's be careful not to go overboard with them in this saga.

(This is just advice, not any form of criticism.)

Question, does the line of Hercynius still exist in the Bonisagus House? I know some members joined Ex Miscellanea, but unsure if that means it’s totally extinct in its home house.

I’m kicking around being the filius of Occultes, the exploration-focused former librarian of Durenmar. And if he could plausibly have been from the line of Hercynius (publicly or privately), then that provides

  1. Potential stories relating to the Diedne or relics of the Schism War
  2. Interesting political considerations relating to Durenmar or the Rhine tribunal more broadly
  3. More symbolically, a connection between the line of my magus and the Jura Mountains, which were once part of the ancient Hercynian Forest

I agree with you that most magi won't be in a Mystery Cult. But the Cult of Mercury isn't a Mystery Cult. It's a Hermetic Societas with open membership. Maybe you thought I was talking about the Neo-Mercurians, who are an off-shoot Mystery Cult developed from it? As a Hermetic Societas, it's more like the more dominant of the two dominant religions (Christianity being the other) in the Order.

Essentially, Mercury Cultists are Mediterranean nature-worshippers, and their ceremonies focus on anthropomorphizing forces like weather, death, love, war and so on.

they welcome any magi who wish to join their group.

The reason I said "more dominant" is that they're also heavily integrated into the general Hermetic society. Their leaders are like the religious leaders who bless non-religious events in our world.

At Tribunal, the flamines often perform an invocation or a blessing before the event, and fulfill other duties such as leading Hermetic naming ceremonies, witnessing oaths, or conducting funereal rites.


As for the numbers, I was exaggerating. It need not be that big, of course. But canonically it really is huge and could be that big. We have statements that the Cult of Heroes is one of multiple smaller sub/side-groups of it. The Cult of Heroes alone is mostly House Mercere, with a few Gifted members and a bunch of unGifted members. And then there are more Mercere outside of the Cult of Heroes, with about half the Gifted Mercere and more Redcaps who aren't in the Cult of Heroes. And despite all these Mercere

[House Flambeau] are still most represented. Through Priamitus they have always had very close ties to House Mercere, and they welcome any magi who wish to join their group.

The Cult of Mercury includes magi from many different Houses

Additionally, we know those in the Cult of Heroes and the leadership of the Cult of Mercury are pagan, yet

A good many cult members consider themselves Christian as well as Mercurian.

So the books aren't very precise. But putting them all together, it's essentially impossible for there to be fewer than 50 or so magi (including unGifted Redcaps). The lower limit is probably closer to 75 or so. Even 75 requires straining textual statement. Having worked with stats a lot and putting all these statements together, I have a hard time believing the implication is under a hundred. Yes, that is well under a quarter of the Order, but it really is huge, and the text doesn't rule out it being a quarter or more.

Now, that is just canonical stuff, and need not exist in game. I was just going off it being a major, open Hermetic Societas that is essentially one of two religions within the Order to which many belong.

I agree that it is probably (and certainly publicly) the largest societas/cult within the Order, but I would estimate its numbers at about 10% of the gifted magi (with a somewhat larger percentage of ungifted redcaps). So around 150-200 members.

Edit: My main point, however, was that rusticani were unlikely to be Mercurians, besause they are specifically less involved in the traditions, rituals and society of the Order.

From the Rhine book and a small mention in HoH:S I understand that the lineage is extinct in House Bonisagus.

The idea seems interesting. What about story and personality flaws?

If we dig too deep into the Diedne and Schism War side I might not be the best person to run such stories, so I don't want to compromise yet... But I'd gladly tag along with grogs or a companion.

A gentle gifted but offensive to animals Merinita, focused on mentem and spirits, with ties to Irencilla and driven to discover how/why her mother died. Is that right?

I like her. =]

Just to put everyone in the same page.

Since I entered this wagon a bit further down the road I'm not formally committed to any particular magus (as in, no current character required my approval), but at this point I think it's pretty much solid that I'll be running several stories for Wolfgang. I do have an inclination to run exploration and combat (thanks, DnD background).

Other than that I'm trying to get more rounded up in other kinds of stories, as long as it seems interesting and I think I can do a passable job. Thus my questions to get some grasp on the magi concept, motivations, flaws, etc.

Thanks for the feedback! My comment about Diedne/Schism War stories were more an option than a specific request, and I was thinking more stories about learning from relics of the past than stories about reigniting that war.

As an example I was thinking about, since the covenant’s main vis source was said to be planted by druids, is that maybe that means the Diedne learned how to grow their own vis sources.

  • Could we learn to do the same if we investigate the Oak of Binding Promises, or if we journeyed to find other trees like it?
  • How would Quaesitors or the Order as a whole respond if our covenant was found to be creating new vis sources via Diedne-inspired practices?
  • Could we use this technique as a bargaining chip with one of our vis-strapped neighbors to help solve our Tribunal problem?

Again, I just wanted to give my thoughts and am totally good if the troupe wants to skip on these kinds of stories.


As for story/personality flaws of my character…

Personality-wise, I would describe him like a cheerful cat. Hopelessly curious about anything mushroom related, he will investigate anything regarding his interest, even if it puts him in a tough spot. An optimist, he knows that even when things get hard, things will work out in the end. That doesn’t always end up happening, so he consoles himself that at least he learns something in the process.

I was considering something like Favors or Mentor connecting to Occultes — whose whole schtick is “gathering information from far and wide about noteworthy artifacts or strange magical practices”. So my maga would have every reason to investigate strange sightings or oddities. I imagine he’d be interested in similiar stories as Wolfgang. But instead of a story just about finding and destroying the coven of hedge witches, my maga might try to negotiate with Wolfgang to first do a heist of their valuable artifacts, or to spy on the witches to learn where they do their Sabbot or how they find vis.

Overarchingly, my maga’s drive is in the ancient Hercynian Forest that once covered all of western and Central Europe and is now fragmented into dozens of disconnected smaller, younger, and lesser forests like the Black Forest and the Jura Mountains. My maga’s belief is that the ancient forest lives on, still powerful and continuous across all of Europe. While man cut down the forests above, deep below the roots of mycelium live on, a world unto themselves. My maga ultimately believes that underneath one of the remnant forests, the genius locii of that greatest forest still lives as a fungus spread over all of Europe.


To be clear, are you talking about running these types of stories, or these are the types of stories that would hook in your magus?

My bad, I conflated the two. To be clear, the top section is how I’d think about running a Diedne story (though probably not that specific story since that’d likely have a big impact on the setting and covenant). The bottom section would interest my magus.

True. They commonly don't join covenants. I had been figuring the character would have to be unusual in that sense to be joining a covenant. I was thinking Covenant Upbringing in Greece, so already being peripherally a part of Hermetic society before choosing a Mechanical as a parens.

But since your comment I've been playing around with shifting to Gifted Mercere with the same Creo/MT/Longevity bent as the Mechanical idea. That would mean dropping Gentle Gift, as I'd pick up Mercurian Magic. What I like about this idea is that seeking old Mercurian rites to recreate them would become a significant interest, and that being associated with the Redcaps would be inherent.


Any thoughts on how Lesser Benediction (Unusually Fecund) would interact with a Longevity Ritual?