Character Creation Discussions (OOC)

Thank you both for the feedback. To be honest, I myself am not so sold on this character concept anymore :grimacing:. I'd like to come up with one that fits better for the saga. Looking through the Notes and Claims thread, there is a list of roles - Heir, Mundane Ambassador, etc. Should I aim to fill one of them with my magus? If so, which ones are most in need of filling? Are there any story ideas that are in need of a protagonist? Or, am I over thinking this?

I think you are overthinking. =9

If you want to fill in a role, feel free to do so, but I don't think it's mandatory.
For information, we currently lack a dedicated enchanter (not necessarily a Verditius, mind you). Also, none of the current magi has a martial bent, and we have no one explicitly geared towards mundane interaction (but we have people who can fill in this last one if needed).

Our cast current has Clusius, the heir to the old magus who founded Tugurium. He is a non-Gentle Jerbiton focused on MuAq and unnatural changes to water. Celeste is a Gentle gifted merinita focused on Mentem and with a mMF in ghosts. Alba is a faerie-blooded Merinita with a poor grasp of the mundane and geared towards ReHe, with a focus on animating wood. Regulus (my character) is a Guernicus quaesitor who wants to reform the Code, and whom I intend to lean to InTe and InVi, most likely.

With companions and grogs (most still undefined) I don't think we need to develop magi to specific roles, but that's my personal opinion. I think it's more fun if we can do the magi we want to and use companions and grogs to cover for any need the magi are not capable of. =]

Alba fills the gardener role :+1:

Now seriously, just do the magus/maga that you prefer to play. Use the roles as a base if you want, but they aren't mandatory to fullfill (i see them as an inspiration source if you really aren't sure about what to do).

So, don't worry so much and write whatever concept you have :slight_smile: We will think about stories later if its necessary :stuck_out_tongue:

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Hi everyone, here is take two for a magus concept. I've never played an Elementalist before, mostly because it didn't seem worth it when you only gained 1xp in the other element Forms when xp is earned in one. But now that errata make it half the source rounded up, I like it more. So that was the starting point. But I don't want to make things too easy for my magus, and let him become an elemental attack spell spammer. So I'm thinking to go with Short-Ranged Magic, because it's a flaw that would impose an interesting limitation. One last major component of his Gift is a minor magical focus in self transformation, since personal MuCo(Element) spells fit well with the theme of short-ranged Elementalist. Personality-wise, my thought is to go with a severely compassionate Seeker. I want to get him out of the lab, exploring the surroundings of the covenant and beyond in an environment-friendly manner, and serving as the covenant's protector (he could go merciful-martial). I haven't picked a House yet. Maybe Bonisagus, maybe Mercere? Don't see many compassionate Flambeaus around. Any suggestions or anticipated issues with this concept?

Could be interesting. How about a Bjornaer? He could make use of his self-transformation to give his hearthform elemental properties.

I like the idea. =]
Keep in mind that transforming into elements are fairly high level spells, even with an applicable focus.

House Bjornaer seems a very good option. I can also see the concept working well with ExMisc, Tytalus, Tremere, Criamon... Most houses, except perhaps for Verditius and Jerbiton.

Sorry, I went AWOL a few days :stuck_out_tongue:

Reading the concept seems cool to me. Its original and different :slight_smile: Im curious to see the spells that will create :smiley:

About the house, unless my companions, i dont see it Bjornaer at all :sweat_smile: The House Bjornaer are usually very reticent to use Muto into themselves a lot, and usually they would frown upon somebody that apparently tries to "modify" his/her "true shapes" in a very extreme and/or habitual way.
The long list of rules that Bjornaer must follow its what it makes lose a lot of appeal to me, since it leaves out a lot of concepts out if you dont want to have problems with your own house.

To me, good houses would be ExMisc (ofc, that one serves for any purpose) and Bonisagus (developing new things is their work, and your magus/maga would work great to make original spells and concepts).
Also, Verditius would also make a good use of a lot of your abilities (being able to make transformation rings and other items like that seems very good... a ring of transforming itself into wind, or water, or whatever... thats cool. And also they are good with the Martial side if you want to create improved swords/shields/whatever).

About Elementalist, in general, i'd say that the biggest advantage of Elementalist its being able of mixing elements and picking the Requisite with a better value. To me that virtue works best when you have a concept that uses compound-elements (a magus with a focus in "Ice and Snow" or "Magma" would need several elements as requisites into his spells, for example).
But here, you will need to level Corpus as much as your elements, and since the resulting spell would be very high level already, you hardly will have a lot of spells mixing several elements + Corpus. So, unless you really want to make Corpus spells with several elements i'd advice against picking Elementalist, just pick Book Learner or any extra xp virtue and numerically will work much better and will let you to achieve those spells earlier (unless you pick it for the rule of cool, in which case, go for it, ofc).

Hi everyone, I've made some progress on fleshing out the concept a bit, and have a pretty good sense of which virtues and flaws I'd like to go with. Here is an outline; I can keep adding flesh if things look good. The one virtue I'd really like to make sure everyone is okay with is Boosted or Tethered Magic (haven't decided which one yet). For Boosted Magic, I don't see using it to increase range beyond touch, since his short-ranged magic would kick in. But it would provide great flexibility for using vis to increase targets and durations. Tethered Magic is interesting too, since it's another way to use his magic to help others, at the risk of making undesirable arcane connections.

Background

  • Great-great-grandmother (maternal) was a Mutantem Maga, from whom he inherited most of his Hermetic virtues
  • Son of a minor baron who is feuding with another baron of a different lord (Feud flaw - maybe a flaw better for mundane characters, but I think it could be interesting to see what he ends up doing, between the Code and his compassion. I'm not planning on any inheritance; he'll have many brothers)
  • Has a love of lore, learned from everyone who could stand having him around when he was a child (Arcane Lore virtue)
  • Apprenticed at Fengeld with a Gifted Mercere
  • After gauntlet, decided to become a Seeker, continue his pursuit of arcane lore and hunt for the secrets of the ancients. Wants to follow up some leads in stories he remembers from his childhood.

Virtues
Puissant Muto (0); Elementalist (3); Affinity with Muto (1); Affinity with Corpus (1); Fast Caster (1); Minor Magical Focus (self-transformation) (1); Arcane Lore (1); Improved Characteristics (1); Boosted Magic or Tethered Magic (1)

Flaws
Short-Ranged Magic (-3); Compassionate (-3); Feud vs. the von Radeggs (-3); Seeker (-1)

It would be quite unusual for a descendent of a Mercere maga to have been lost track of like that. Not impossible, mind you, but unusual. Note that this is a background element that isn't mandatory. It is just as possible for a Gifted youngster to manifest an affinity toward transformation magic and something like Boosted/Tethered Magic even if he is not from Mercere blood. There are plenty of other Muto magi out there. Or even right here at the covenant! :wink:

Or are you settling for House Mercere? Just noticed that he was apprentice to a Gifted Mercere at Fengheld. If so, this raises the question of why Fengheld? Canonically there are no Gifted Mercere living there. Why wasn't he brought up in Harco, for example, where it is much more likely a Mercere magus would be? They are few and precious. Also, why would he join a potentially constested covenant? That's a precarious place to live, politically, and House Mercere tend to avoid political conflicts (and go so far as not to vote at Tribunal) out of a general policy.

A feud with mundanes isn't really a Major flaw for a magus, in my opinion. Unless you live right on their doorstep and for some reason cannot just squash them. But then it tends to become a covenant hook, rather than an individual flaw, so I'd rather avoid that.

I think that Elementalist, the mMF and Boosted/Tethered are kinda pushing the character in different directions. I don't see a lot of interaction between them. Is it worth paying half of your virtues for that set? Maybe you saw something on that that I'm missing.

Arthur's point about Feud between magi and mundanes makes sense. Perhaps Close Family Ties would work better, with family expecting him to occasionally help (or maybe he just can't bring himself to say no)?

To make a lost Mercere, I'd likely put his great-great-great-...-mother dying on the Schism War, leaving behind an son or daughter who everyone thought to have perished but actually lived, with house Mercere only recently locking on that branch of the descendants.

Yes, that was my intent, and I didn't mean to imply that House Mercere had lost track of him. With his emphasis on self-transformation into elements, I thought it would be a good fit for that House and Mutantem magic. He doesn't have to be apprenticed at Fengheld. My thinking here was that since his apprenticeship was from 1185-1200 or so, there could have been a Gifted Mercere at Fengheld during that period, since it is the Redcap hub for the Rhine Tribunal. But if you'd prefer to apply the 1220 canon to that period, I can move his apprenticeship to Harco, or some other covenant that has a Gifted Mercere according to canon (I don't have a source for the Roman Tribunal, so can't chose a canonical resident to serve as his master).

Highlights of what I found written in the House Mercere chapter that relate to this are (1) Redcaps don't vote at Tribunal to keep out of politics, (2) Gifted Mercere aren't required to be apolitical and to not vote, but usually abstain to avoid seeming superior to their Redcap Housemates, and (3) Gifted Mercere have more freedom to find their own way than Redcaps (but not unlimited freedom of course). Unless he's been forbidden or asked not to go by his superiors, my character would go to Tugurium to pursue lore and to be closer to his family.

Understood. I'll go with Close Family Ties as Rafael suggested and figure out two more minor flaws to make up the difference.

I wanted to try something different here, and give my magus an interesting set of capabilities. They weren't necessarily meant to work together. Do you think that this approach results in characters that are difficult to play, or in anything else I should avoid?

In my mind (it might be different for Arthur), he being the son of a noble and staying around long enough to get involved in politics means that house Mercere only identified his Gift relatively late. Since they usually have a good grasp on the family tree, it would indicate that the Mercere had lost track of the lineage at some point, only identifying him late in life. But there might exist other reasons for a late apprenticeship.

I think apprenticeship at Fengheld makes it easier to integrate him to Tugurium at the next Tribunal. And as he joins Tugurium his master might decide to relocate to Harco (keeping canon intact, if this is our desire).

Minor idea, he could be an Illegitimate Mercere. It might help to explain a lack of a "proper" connection to the Founder (like, even if he is a descendant from him, unless he can prove that he is still illegitimate, right?) and make it easier to justify him joining Tugurium (in a sense, no one expects "proper Mercere behavior" from you). And he trying to prove he is a legitimate descendant is an instant source of stories. But again, just an idea.

I think this depends on what you want to do with him.

The mMF puts forward a focus on Muto and Corpus. Elemental Magic puts at least another Art for him to focus.

Short-Ranged Magic means that the most common spells on the elemental arts are quite hard for him, unless you want to dedicate a lot of xp on them.

Tethered/Boosted I find interesting and flexible, and it's hard to judge w/o a clear understanding of what the character will be doing.

I think my main concern is he becoming dependent of having high scores (15 and above) in too many different Arts, which means you might need to wait a bit to make full use of him (if you are ok with that, this is fine). Or maybe you will focus onlower level spells and my concern is unnecessary.

But I personaly like characters that have a more broad set of V&F. =9
I don't think the character will necessarily be difficult to play, and it will surely be an interesting fellow.

I think some of the choices I've made have bogged the character development process down (in addition to my slow posting rate, which I'll improve on). Here is another take on my Elementalist concept that I hope will help get things moving again.

Virtues: Elementalist (3), Minor Magical Focus (communicating with Airy spirits) (1), Improved Characteristics (1), Fast Caster (1), Affinity with Rego (1), Affinity with Intellego (1), Arcane Lore (1), Inoffensive to Magic Spirits (1)

Flaws: Deficient Perdo (-3), Compassionate (-3), Seeker (-1), Major Story flaw, depending on background option chosen from below

Background (to be fleshed out further, once concept is approved and option 1 or 2 below is chosen):

  • Born into a forester's family in Garmisch, Bavaria, who dealt with his Gift at the beginning (age 0-5)

  • Over time, his family didn't want anything more to do with him because of the impact of his Gift on the small village (forester being a position of authority that his malignant presence was undermining), and off-loaded him to the monks of Benediktbeuern, who take in foundlings/orphans. His monk caretaker showed him kindness, despite the Gift. Through the monk's fosterage, he gained a compassion for the plight of others and a keen interest in arcane lore. Wandering the area to visit those in need, he grew to have a strong connection to the land and the weather. Especially the mountains to the south with their abrupt thunderstorms, and the fresh lakes and streams that are born from the snow that falls on them (age 6-12)

  • His caretaker had dealings with magi in his pursuit of knowledge, and recognized similarities between the boy's effects on himself and the effects of those magi. So he introduced the boy to:

  • Option 1: Dorana of Fengheld (House Bonisagus), who specializes in weather magic and took him on as an apprentice. Upon discovering his facility in communicating with Airy spirits, she encouraged his development in this area to support her research. Over the years, Dorana's mentorship and attention has made him feel particularly beholden to her. Her emphasis on peaceful and rational politics resonates with him. To top it off her subtle intervention to prevent an embarrassing blunder during his Gauntlet has him owing her a big favor. Additional Option for Option 1: After his gauntlet, Dorana has asked her former apprentice to join Tugurium in an attempt to build additional support for her agendas, should the new covenant happen to join the Rhine Tribunal.

  • Option 2: X of covenant Y (House Z), who began his apprenticeship. After a year or two, word of his ability to communicate with Airy spirits reached Marcella (House Bonisagus) of Stella Durus, who used her right to take apprentices from others because she believed he could eventually support her research on vis extraction through the symbiotic interactions between a genius loci and a settlement. The transfer was contentious, and through many faux pas that occurred because of her oblivious nature, Marcella made an enemy of X, who now looks to ruin both Marcella and the stolen apprentice.

  • After being Gauntleted and spending a few years as a peregrinator, he applies for membership at Tugurium. He wants to continue the study of magic lore that he pursued during childhood and apprenticeship, now with the additional context of being a Seeker. His latest approach is to search for the secrets of the ancient people who lived near the mountains, and the magic they practiced long before the Romans came. Perhaps he can find an Airy spirit that can assist.

I know Rego and Intellego are already Techniques favored by other magi at Tugurium, so if you prefer not to add another sink of the resources for those Arts, I can think about what focus he could have with Creo or Perdo instead.

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I'd say that "Communicating with elemental spirits" is narrow enough (it still VERY narrow) to be a Minor Magical Focus in itself, without needing to narrow it down further to airy ones.

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I was thinking along similar lines as Gaxxian. Airy spirits would quality as a minor focus without needing a limiting word.

If you prefer to limit the focus to a specific technical aspect, then it could be broadened to include elementals.

Any of the 3 potential story flaws are acceptable, though each would need to be fleshed out a bit.

Personally I like Option 1 the best. =]
And it can slowly transition into Option 3 (he joining Tugurium after his mater suggestion, but soon realizing he can seek ancient magic from the Alps).

I think that with the diversity of goals and specializations of the other magi in Tugurium, a little overlap in Arts won't be a problem. And instead of becoming a sink, it might become an helping hand (the utility value of a high level Rego summae increases if three magi can benefit from it; the magi can write tractatus for mutual benefit on the shared arts; etc).

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I dont have any issues with the high level arts too. Pick the arts as you see it fit :slight_smile:
About the background options, I also like a little more the Option 1 (that would mean that you magus and Alba already know each other, too. Even if its just by sight). But any of them is good, so you choose :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the quick feedback! I'll go with Option 1 - I like it more too. For fleshing it out, is there any area/aspect you'd like to have more detail on in particular, to make sure I cover it?

Regarding the minor magical focus, it'd be great to go with the unlimited "Airy Spirits" then. For alignment, it would include sensing + communicating (In), summoning + controlling (Re), and destroying (Pe, though he's not going to do any of that). It seems to me that creation of Airy spirits can't happen magically, because non-natural things don't have them (though I haven't yet found a statement to this effect in the books). Anything else?

Also just to make sure, I'm including Spirits of the Elements and Spirits of Places (Genii Loci) under Airy Spirits (RoP:M, pg 103-107). Technically, there are also Spirits of Florae and Fauni, of Emotions, of Sensations, and of Hardship. But these don't fit with the theme of Elementalist, and he won't be focusing on the relevant Forms for them anyway.

Agree that direct creation can't happen (at least not as I understand Airy Spirits).
Wouldn't Muto also apply, for making changes to the spirits?

If you are not going outside of the elemental forms, perhaps do as Arthur suggested and refine the scope to include elementals?


I don't think I have any comment regarding his background for now. I'll just take this chance to like the concept. Looking forward to creating trouble for the character. =9

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Imho, I would say that "Elemental Spirits", or even "Elementals", would remain a Minor Foci.

Also, if your plan as "Elementalist" is being able to affect elementals above anything else, you will hardly mix the arts Au, Aq, Ig and Te. So, you will not make full use of your Major Virtue.
Remember, the real deal with Elemental Magic its NOT the extra exp into elemental arts that you only get when you study them (not exposure, not the starting points), but the fact that you can ignore requirements from your spells.
You should think about the spells you plan to make, just in case, to be sure. Otherwise you will end with a Major and worse Secondary Insight version.

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