Character Creation for Gaxxian (OOC)

[Gaxxian]

@Arthur

I've mentioned the primary counter-example of Conjuring the Mystic Tower many times.

Apparently a bad example due to being exceptionally underperforming spell. But it cannot really drop a point in Size or the tower size should shrink too.

@Arthur

The box on Targets and Sizes on ArM5 p.113 is also my primary reference, as well as the definitions of the base individual for each Form.

Again, doesn't mention anything. Or at least i don't understand anything at all like you. There is a line that helps to make a different idea? I read about mass in there, yet interior empty space and air doesn't add mass into a Creo Terram or Herbam creation.

@Arthur

Another counter-example would be Conjuring the House of God (A&A 133), which requires 6 extra magnitudes of size for creating a church that is 19,000 suqare feet and up to 140 feet high (2,66 million cubic feet, or 100,000 cubic paces).

Yep, an underperforming spell. Yet taking into account the foundations and all the interior walls, surely couldn't work with less Size either.

@Arthur

Looking at Herbam, Conjuration of the Seaworthy Cog also creates a container based on its full volume. The average cog is about 20 paces long by 6 paces wide. Assuming it is about as high as wide (if we disregard its mast), that's 720 cubic paces and the spell uses 3 extra magnitudes for size.

You literally took the smallest possible average cog as example:

Yet again, you can make that the spell create less volume than the max, so that doesnt really proves nothing.

@RafaelB

At this point I don't think arguing anymore is going to be helpful?

I don't think so either, and this will be my last post writing about this.

@RafaelB

but it's a mater of 1 mag of difference, so it shouldn't be worth it to to spend much more time on it anyway?

Well, to be honest, that mag of difference is also the difference between Alba being able to do the spell in a few seasons, or not at all. But even then, thats not really the problem, no, since i counted on the possibility that people wanted to increase the Complexity.
What i never expected was a new ruling which also contradicted the previous nerf to Herbam (with which, although i still do not agree, i was able to accept it because, at least, it followed a consistent logic).

@RafaelB

(Well, there's a matter of principles also, but still.)

Yeah, well, if we continue down the path of interpreting the rules in such a draconian way, i would like to point out that since the fire flames in itself have no mass (at least, from a Medieval perspective), regardless of Ignem's base individual, all Group spells from Ignem wouldn't see their size increased to be able to affect multiple targets unless you also pay at least a +1 in Size.
The existing spells? I would handwave it as being legacy or just plain special discoveries (maybe through experimentation) that cannot be reproduced directly by players.

@RafaelB

Hey, at least expectations were clarified?

If you mean about this specific spell, now i know that i will not able to make it, so yes.
But if you mean for the future in general, then not at all, to be honest.
We have a ruling that allows you to have a spell with which you can create a cubic wooden bin measuring 1 meter on a side (slightly bigger than a pace)... but only when the opening faces to empty space. If with that spell you try to create that same bin facing down to the ground then, since its now an enclosed space and thus a "container", suddenly now the spell fails.

If you need an actual example of this problem in action: Character Creation for Gaxxian (OOC) - #87 by Gaxxian When I designed it, i mentioned about using it on cabinets. The spell was accepted at that time, but today a +1 Size would be required to be able to move cabinets. So, if something can be done or not it depends on the day.