Character Creation for Nithyn (OOC)

A metal object can be moved more or less forcibly, or be more massive, hence inflict more damage. Both of these can require additional magnitudes in a Rego attack spell. By symmetry, a defensive spell needs additional magnitudes to fully protect against a more damaging attack.

You are correct about the R:Per, so I'm taking that back. Though that raises the question about why Ward Against Heat and Flames hasn't been errata'd (or perhaps it has).

Maybe it comes from an older version and they just did it like that for that reason.... Ward Against Heat and Flames also works with flames up to 1 pace distance... and you can cast it into a companion, grog or friend. So... there is it :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, that also makes sense (regarding warding against metals).

As for Ward against Flame, at R:Touch you can cast it on a grog, or on an object you don’t want to see burning.

True. With R:Touch you can use it on others. In fact, I seem to remember a variant somewhere with R:Per that was 5 levels lower.

I think adjudication of this spell ...

... hinges on the interpretation of this guideline

And how it contrasts with the subsequent guideline below it.

So I would say firstly that this seems to make clear that Terram Wards require a Base of 5, so effects based on the Base 2 are not Wards. But they are effects that can manipulate the Form of Terram.

So what can this guideline at Base 2 do? And how then does it contrast with 5?

This all appears to hinge on the interpretation of two key parts of these guidelines.

First is what does "conscious control (that is, you must be aware of its presence)" mean.

And then also I note that the Base 5 has the word "all" in the guideline, and the Base 2 does not. I'm not sure I would consider that conclusive but it is a difference.

There is also a canon spell to use as an example.

This is a parry spell much like the aforementioned Repel the Wooden Shafts. This establishes that the guideline can be used that way with a Momentary effect.

The question remains ... can this guidelines "only" be used with an Active defense (such as a targeted parry, requiring a fast cast) or can it also be the basis of a Static or Passive defense (working similarly to a Ward), though requiring awareness of the thing constituting the attack/hazard?

The more I stare at the Base 2 guideline description the more I think it is a very poorly crafted sentence. However this is hardly a helpful observation. :wink:

The two key points I noted before seem key to differentiating the two guidelines.

I think a Base 2, +1 Touch, +1 Concentration, +2 Metal effect (so lvl 10) is possible. Specifically because as a Concentration effect it can be directed against something with the intent of the caster on the fly. But that this does require both awareness of the attack as well as mental effort/attention and therefore likely could be overwhelmed if there were a number of attacks on the beneficiary in a round to the extent that they were unable to mentally track them all and direct the effect as a defense. An arbitrary measurement of this limited capacity to set a number of "parries" usable in a round comes to mind as an option to reflect this. Perhaps based on Finesse or Concentration either one.

The Base 5 however explicitly is a Ward and includes the word All, so that to me is a much stronger and explicitly passive defense that does not require either awareness or mental effort to execute.

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With a caveat, concentration enables you to affect the target over an extended period of time, not to freely change between valid targets for the duration. So it would be usefull to make sure a particular sword can't touch you for an extended period, but wouldn't allow you to change your focus to several swords over the course of a few minutes and block them all unless the target is Group from the beggining.

Indeed. D:Conc does not gives, by itself, the capacity to change the target of the spell.

Hey folks, to be complete honest, I'm getting all sorts of burnt out right now, and I think I need to take step back and re-evaluate the character as a whole. There have been a number of things that have come out through the building process that are making me question if the character will work the way that I had envisioned it. So I'm going to take a few and figure out if I can salvage things, if I need to take the build down to the studs as it were, or if I just need to pivot entirely.

As always, appreciate the feedback and patience.

Understood.

Re: Concentration

I think that issue depends on whether the person being protected can be the Target or not. I could see an argument either way, given the language of the guideline and contrasting the Base 2 vs Base 5.

The Base 2 arguably takes direct mental focus (more than just awareness in my view, but I can see how the sentence appears to define what it means as explicitly awareness so ... that is not an uncontroversial claim), but I don't see that the Target can't be the protected individual/self. However that interpretation, that the target of a non-ward (and I don't think this guideline creates a ward, because that is set at Base 5 and includes the word "all" in the guideline) must be the thing controlled is not unreasonable either.

Alrighty, so question to lay at folk's feet before I move forward. What do we think of Physical Warding as a Minor Focus? That is to say Rego effects that ward the target against X, provided that it's something that can physically strike the target. So Terram, Ignem, etc, but none of the Vim-based realm stuff.

I think I would be ok with that as long as it didn't cover any of the wards vs creatures of might etc. So as you say covering Ignem phenomena but not creatures of Ignem? Hmm. Animal, but not creatures of animal seems perhaps odd. Though mundane animals vs. no realm creatures of animal might be a distinction to make.

The idea would be to leave out of the might stuff. And don't worry, I'm almost 100% sure animal already draws that distinction in it's guidelines. That is to say might versus non.

I think it would be clearer if it was called Warding Against Natural Things. So anything of a supernatural nature would not be warded. Makes it fairly clear where it begins and stops. So anything with Might, any spell or power, would be outside its scope. Humans who are only asociated with a Realm (through having a supernatural virtue or flaw) would be included in the scope, but not their powers themselves.

That would seem to make adjudicating effects difficult. Ward against heat and flames say, is nominally a physical/natural ward until someone shoots you with Pilum.

Perhaps another way to limit it and ensure is clearly a minor would be to focus it on personal wards and not circle/ring wards?

I’m not sure here. We do t have examples of warding foci and it is a broad yet also specific type of effect.

Noted, thanks. You indicated earlier that you're fine with the Ward Against Heat and Flames guideline being extended across the other forms. Giving some thought as to what a focus on those sort of things might look like.

Yeah, which is why I was thinking about focusing purely on the soak wards so there's no confusion like this?

Can you be explicit about what would be covered by the focus and what wouldn't? Just to make sure we all understand the scope.

Well, just to be clear, you are okay with the Ward Against Heat and Flames' guidelines going across the forms, yes? Wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand you earlier. If so, then I'm thinking about just saying that guideline. The soak wards as it were. I would need to come up with a good name for it, but it feels thematic to me?

I'm fine extending the use of the ReIg guideline used in Ward Against Heat and Flames to other Forms.

Essentially, for personal wards only, Base 4 will provide a +5 Soak against attacks of that Form. Each additional magnitude will provide +5 additional Soak.

Understood. And yeah, gotta keep the power creep under control, else everyone and their mother would be passing them out.