Character Creation for Nithyn (OOC)

It isn't. A specialty in a specific laboratory activity will boost the vis handling limit when performing that lab activity. Longevity rituals is quite relevant. Familiars can be as well.

Tell that to those who invents spells, enchant items, and bind their familiar, all using their favourite Art.

1 Like

It's questionable if a specialization in "labs" (let’s say laboratory work) is even valid for Magic Theory. It’s just too broad.

It's not.

Sure. But the bonus of a lab upgrade to the same Art can be several points rather than one. You have more time invested, but that same specialization option then is giving you a larger bonus to the same broader scope of activities.

It makes the specialization in the Art itself comparatively less valuable/attractive as an option.

This is interesting. While these are less frequent activities I think you have a point here that I will think about a bit.

Lab design/optimization? It seems like a sufficiently specific task out of everything that Magic Theory covers to me?

1 Like

Lets be honest, from a purely numerical standpoint, until you have or need very high Art values, laboratory virtues are bad and just dedicating the same time to study is more worthy ^^! (at least, very few of them are worth)
BUT they give a lot of fluff and can be very fun to roleplay when you see another magus' lab. So i love them just for that xD

He mean to specialize to increase your Refinement for the lab, thats all.

1 Like

Correct. Which I thought I already made explicit?

I'd even say that one specialization like that should count for gaining the Virtues: Highly Organized and Spotless, too.
But another name could be better to avoid confusion :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

Agreed on both counts.

Read too quickly, thought you meant lab work in general. My mistake.

I agree with you, a specialization in increasing your lab seems fine. But as Gaxxian pointed, improving your lab has it’s own cost.

Nithyn here is my initial stab at familiar powers for Dolabrius. Feedback welcome.

Sense The Feet That Tread The Earth

Sense The Feet That Tread The Earth (Mod.)
InTe 25
R: Per, D: Conc, T: Touch (Sensory)

As ArM5 pg 154. Modified to Touch Sensory effect.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +1 Touch (Sensory), +3 Size)

Sense the Deeps

Sense the Deeps
InTe 40
R: Per, D: Conc, T: Touch (Sensory)

Provides a sense of the mixture & composition of the earth, by mystical touch sense, out to roughly 1 mile. This sense identifies the complex composition of the earth and thus can provide a great deal of detail regarding the contents (where something is buried - where stone, gems, metals etc. are located - underground water reservoirs) and location of objects beneath the surface.
(Base 5, +1 Conc, +1 Touch (Sensory), +5 Size)

  • I did not do math here for the volume of earth involved, so feel free if you want to nerd it up as to how far this can reach with the size bumps. The intent was to take something like the tremor sense and bump it up from detecting things moving on/in contact with the earth to broadly detecting composition... and then I added two size bumps to try to maintain the rough range.
Eye of the Master

Eye of the Master
InTe 40
R: Per, D: Conc, T: Vision

This effect gives Dolabrius the ability to discern the properties and functioning of complex items (like buildings, siege engines, or other constructs) by sight. Dolabrius uses this to spot damage or deterioration that needs repairs, weak points in objects/structures/fortifications, or to understand "intuitively" the functioning of say a strange new siege engine.
(Base 15 (Mundane properties of a composite object), +1 Concentration, +4 Vision)

Rock of Viscid Clay

Rock of Viscid Clay (Mod.)
MuTe 30
R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Part

As ArM5 pg 154, modified for increased size.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +1 Part, +3 Size)

A Thousand Ready Dolabra

A Thousand Ready Dolabra
ReTe 25
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Part

Craft Magic, as Covenants pg 51, for affecting large quantities of earth and stone.
(Base 2, +1 Touch, +1 Part, +1 Stone, +1 Second Effect (affecting Earth), +3 Size)

  • Note: Part vs Group? Does an effect like this require Group to say, for example, affect a pile of already cut stone? Part of the intent here is for him to be able to cut and/or lay stone with the effect in large quantities. Perhaps mixing in a +2 Group and a +1 for also being able to affect "Parts"?
The Mystical Carpenter

The Mystical Carpenter
ReHe 25
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Group

As Covenants pg 51.
(Base 5, +1 Touch, +2 Group, +1 Complexity)

A Tunnel Wherever I Need One

A Tunnel Wherever I Need One
MuTe(Au) 50
R: Touch, D: Conc, T: Part

Transforms earth to a vaguely airy substance that does not impede passage. The passage can be just large enough for Dolabrius or up to the size potentially affected by the effect in a simple cave or tunnel shape. This effectively allows Dolabrius to create an instant tunnel in which to travel which returns to being normal earth as he moves on. Like the base spell of Short Step of the Ghost the transformation merely makes the Part of the earth it affects passable without affecting the structural properties of it or the whole.
(Dirt Size: 10,000 cubic feet)(Stone Size: 1,000)
(Base Spell: Short Step of the Ghost, MuTe(Au) 25 (MoH pg 93))
(Base 10, +1 Touch, +1 Concentration, +1 Part, +1 affect stone, +1 second effect (affect earth), +3 size)

Chamber of Spring Breezes

Chamber of Spring Breezes (Mod.)
CrAu 5
R: Touch, D: Conc, T: Ind

As ArM5 pg 125. Size increase allows for an effect strong enough to provide air to sustain larger numbers of people without straining.
(Base 1, +1 Touch, +1 Concentration, +1 Unnatural, +1 Size)

Earth Flow

Earth Flow
Re(Mu)Te 50
R: Touch, D: Conc, T: Part

This effect provides an "escalator" or "people mover" like effect, causing the earth to move smoothly and consistently with their direction of movement in a way that amplifies their rate of travel. This is accomplished with Rego. The ability to affect stone simply allows this affect to also take place on paved roads. Complexity accounts for the effect occurring as the beneficiaries move through an affected area, and for the spell returning the ground/road to original condition afterwards. The Muto Requisite facilitates this process taking place smoothly and easily both as travel occurs and afterwards. This effect is large enough to provide benefit to a sizable group of travelers easily, and accelerates their overland movement to roughly 40 mph. One must still deal with geography (changes in elevation) and natural barriers (such as a river or mountain), but most other types of terrain effects are negated due to the earth being say pulled up to provide a suitable travel surface in a swamp.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +1 Concentration, +1 Part, +3 Size, +1 Stone, +1 Muto Requisite, +1 Complexity)

Dolabra of the Titans

Earth Control
ReTe 25
R: Touch, D: Conc, T: Part

Exerts continuous control over a large volume of dirt. The effect can shape and move the dirt continuously under the control of the caster/user over the duration of the effect. This however is over the same quantity of dirt and exerting control over a new quantity of earth requires using the effect again.
(Dirt Size: 10,000 cubic feet)
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +1 Concentration, +1 Part, +3 Size)

Looks fantastic mate! Very much gives me the whole engineer vibe that we were discussing earlier.

Posting from my tablet, which is why I can't easily check it, but does Dolabrius have scores in Concentration and Finesse? Note that xp for these abilities can only be purchase through left-over levels from powers, not his regular allotment of xp.

He doesn't have a full sheet built yet, I just posted a tentative list of power ideas for use when doing so.

The need to purchase Concentration and Finesse using power levels means he may end up with a few less levels of powers. Check the rule in RoP:M.

Just thought I'd mention it to avoid disappointments later on.

1 Like

I'm looking for the rule in question. What I've found so far is the rules for getting xp for said abilities from Improved Powers, and the rules for character creation for assigning Ability xp. Which ability xp being assigned is in the inset on page 30 in the Season phase, and in the Season phase on page 34.

From page 34

Season is how you will determine the character’s starting experience points. Choose which Season best describes the character, and consult the following table. These points may be spent as you would for any beginning character; you must have an appropriate Virtue or Flaw to purchase Abilities that are not General. If your character concept includes innate Abilities (as many animals do) you will need to spend your starting points on these scores first.

I think that this means that Dolabrius would need a suitable virtue to unlock Arcane Abilities, but not that it couldn't be done?

Analysis on spells:

I don't think you can change R:Touch to T:Touch (sensory) and have the same effect. You are not touching things 1 mile distant from you. Sensory spells just add new functions to existing senses, and the sense of touch doesn't work that far. Also, +3 size wouldn't make sense, senses have no size. ^^
Why not keep the regular version of the spell?

Same concern in regards to T:Touch (sensory).
As for the sensed area, 2 extra mags wouldn't do much. +5 mags is 1000000 cubic meters, which is a lot... but at an 1 mile radius that's only 12cm deep. You could make it, however, a hemisphere of roughly 80m radius. Or a 100x100x100 cube of earth.

This is the fork discussion all over again. It's debatable to what degree functioning and (specially) purpose of an object can be discerned by InTe, regardless of the guideline used (except for the high level ones that allow one to directly comune with an object).

Also, all of the effects above are InTe. Maybe it can be covered by a Focus Power (idk, "Understanding Earth and Stone")? This would give a bit more flexibility to Dolabrius.

Affect how? Since you say "part of the intent" I think you want to do more than just cutting/piling stone? If so, this is walking in the direction of a focus power.
Yes, group is required for several stones. Part is required to quarry them. The intended flexibility also is pushing this towards a focus power.

I think it's questionable if you can always create a cave/tunnel "up to the size potentially affected by the effect" "without affecting the structural properties of it". Short Step of the Ghost affects only a relatively small section of the wall.

Minor reminder that this one needs to penetrate to be of any use for Dolabrius or people with MR.

This one seems extremely complex as described, and I'm not sure if it's fully possible at all. Maybe for personal use only, but not giving 40mph speed. For a "sizeable group of people", I don't think you can coordinate the way earth moves and people move to boost speed collectively like that at all.

In General:

Dolabrius has a lot of really high level powers. Don't forget you need to pay for his powers with qualities. Are there enough points for everything he will need?

Personal opinion (so take it with a grain of salt): a few of the powers seem a bit out of place (I'm looking at you, The Mystical Carpenter)? Not that they aren't useful for a combat engineer, but Dolabrius is a magical badger first and a combat engineer second, no? Also, he doesn't need to do everything alone in an army.
There's some overlap between the uses of some powers (A Thousand Ready Dolabra and Dolabra of the Titans, for example).
Also, his powers are all over the place in regards to Arts. Mostly Terram, but a bit of Herbam and Auram. All techniques, except for Perdo.
Dolabrius isn't a magical badger who doubles as a combat engineer. He is a combat engineer who happens to be a magical badger.

Regarding Concentration, Finesse and Penetraition: I believe Vortigern is correct in this:

It's just that unnused levels from powers, or points from Improved Powers, can be exchanged by xp in those three abilitities. Not that they can only be obtained through this way. Indeed, several creatures from RoP:M have penetration coming from their regular pool of seasonal xp.

Also, Beasts of Virtue in particular seem to have no restriction regarding requiring virtues to access academic or arcane abilities (check Season and Abilities in pg.56, and compare with Season and Abilities for Magical Giants in pg. 85 for example).

But I'd say this doesn't really apply to Dolabrius, because he isn't a Beast of Virtue by design, so he does need the virtues if he wants to use his regular xp pool.


Taking an appropriate virtue will indeed give access to Arcane abilities.

Note that some of the creatures presented in RoP:M do not follow that rule. But any magical character (including a future familiar) should.

1 Like

Easy enough to just make them Sight or something. Though there are certainly effects to use your senses at range. But I digress. That said, I think the intent is to keep him from constantly having to recast the spell over and over as he moves though?

Not sure I agree here mate. Craft magic as written is extremely flexible. After all, the same spell can split wood, create beautiful wooden carvings, make a bow, or even build a house. This definitely isn't anywhere close to a focus power though, given the fact that a RAW example of that is the ability to use spont magic of two techniques in a given form. Maybe if he had a focus power in ALL craft magic or something? Remember, it's supposed to be similar to a focus, so slightly less than a single Hermetic form.

Easy enough to fix with a Rego requisite?

Good catch. Thankfully magi can lower their Parma. Plus, I would hope you count as having a permanent AC to yourself? :wink:

Really? It seems pretty straightforward to me. It's basically The Well Troden Path plus a Rego Terram effect to move a chunk of earth in a given direction at speed. Very much inside the scope of what magic can do.

I think this is mostly just brainstorming? Tossing stuff out there, soliciting feedback, etc. We'll just have to wait and see what a draft build looks like!

Making it R:Sight wouldn't change that. Unless you are thinking about T:Vision? T:Hearing also matches with the intent, albeit having a lower range. Up to the SG to say if it could be increased with additional mags (it does have the advantage, over Vision, of being omnidirectional).
If going standard spell, to have the effect effectively recast as you walk, a +1 mag can contemplate that (see Threading the Ashen Path). Also, since it's actually a power, there isn't much risk to recasting the spell often... you need only concern yourself with the might cost (which can be offset with qualities if needed be).

Not to the point of changing targets this way. Rego Craft has a definite target, with a potentially open ended result. Here we want to affect either a part or a group (different targets).
But maybe a +1 is indeed enough, as Vortigern proposed. Idk.

I sure hope so! XD
I'm mentioning because it's easily forgetable, and depending on his might Dolabrius might need a few points in Penetration.
As for Parma... well, it's better if it doesn't need to stay suppressed for too long, right?

Well Trodden Path just evens out the ground in an area. We are talking about boosting movement of a large group of people. Who are bound to walk in a very assyncronous way, each with their own gait, pottentially over different terrain (imagine you are at the top of a hill, part of the group climbing up, part going down). And we want to move the earth below each one in the perfect way to match this and significantly boost their movement. A single +1 complexity doesn't even begin to address that, IMO.

Let me step back a moment. Is baseline 3 even capable of boosting the movement of a single person such that it reaches 40mph? How would the spell be designed if it was to boost only the movement of the caster?