Character Creation for Plot_Device (OOC)

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: The Heir of Laimunt Valley
44

That is true. But the more Hermetic virtues an apprentice has, the harder it becomes to teach more of them. Why didn't Philippus teach the virtues he felt approriate? I can see Zaldun teaching one or two minor virtues to widen Wolfgang's repertoire with something Philippus couldn't teach himself, but why didn't either of them follow that up with appropriate training?

That's the lot of most apprentices. Every player would like more xp to spend on their initial character. I just think you are suffering from a lack of focus in your character concept. It's not a cardinal sin, don't get me wrong! :wink: But it shows in your selection of virtues and how you spread your xp too thin.

For example, you selected Affinity with Ignem. Why? It only saves you 5 xp. The only spell where that really helps are Winter's Icy Grip and Mien of Helios. You could get the same result by moving the Affinity to Perdo (saving 26 xp) and spending the 5 extra xp in Ignem. That frees up 21 xp and you end up with the same scores everywhere.

Same with your Affinity with Vim, which only saved you a paltry 2 xp. Is it worth a minor virtue? (It may be, if you really really intent on specializing the character in high-level PeVi effects. But there may be better ways to reach that goal.)

Another example of the lack of focus: Do you need to start with 3 variants of Might-stripper, one for each Realm? They are easy to learn or invent after apprenticeship. Select a Realm and specialize there for now. There are plenty of more useful spells out there (Bind Wound is almost essential for a magus who expect to face combat, for himself or his grogs).

Just friendly advice. :wink:

45

I think we have different philosophies - I want to have something in my arsenal to deal with every situation. Which I'm far from, but for instance that's why I have all three realm might-destroyers.

Both his affinities are really about his magical nature that got converted by opening the gift, but yes, I'm quite happy to have those for my future advancement plans. The affinities are more about where he'll be growing later, not to save xp for the gauntlet version.

Overall, I'm happy with the way he is, he's maybe a bit weird but he meets the minimum of being able to contribute on an expedition of war (barely), which I think is necessary, and otherwise I think the issues come down to him still being a baby.

If it helps, think of him as a dual-school magus, both Apromor and Founder; that is basically my intent. (Perhaps Boreas also, but that just comes as a natural consequence of being good at the prior two.)

46

That's fine. He's perfectly playable that way. Like I said, this is just advice.

It comes down to the constant specialist/generalist debate. I would just say that in the Ars system, it's easier to start as a specialist and then generalize, then to try to specialize a generalist.

47

Great.

Edit: One more thing, are we happy with Major Duty-Bound and Mentor: Phillipus? This is the one area where I had in mind an end result and wasn't 100% on how to best replicate it with flaws, or if virtues are required.

1- He's a member of the Ash Gild, with duties, privileges will come along later as he progresses to Journeyman and Master.

2- Phillipus sees him as his successor (Yeah, he's 25 years younger, but probably already warped enough to be thinking about that kind of thing). So he will put tasks to him to make him prove himself, and expect him to go along on expeditions to Scandinavia, but also, they are actually friends. (I'm amused by the potential scene if the old man comes for a visit just to be sociable and everyone else is freaking out about why the hell he's there.)

There are plenty of Arts he'll never go above 5 in, so he's not a total generalist anyway.

Is it time to start the next stage of things? I don't see a lot of character threads yet but not sure if that means it just hasn't happened yet or we're waiting for something.

Should our advancement narrative go there, or here?

Not gonna post today regardless but will give me something to do over the weekend. :wink:

48

I'll create a character stats thread for you today. You can post his version at the end of Gauntlet there.

Narrative advancement will be posted here and debated by the troupe (level of rewards, suggestions for links to other characters, etc.) If you then want to post a final version of it in your character stats, feel free to do so.

It might be a good idea to have some sort of summary of advancement, so that we can check to make sure there was nothing forgotten or miscalculated along the way. I've had that happen more than once.

49

Summer 1194

What a wonderful feeling it is to be a magus! I still have to pinch myself occasionally, and I haven't been able to stop grinning. I have joined the ranks of the esteemed and mighty Order of Hermes. I had the honor of swearing the oath at a Grand Tribunal, along with a few others. I don't suppose it matters, really, it was honestly more nerve-wracking to know I was in front of all the most important magi in the order.

My gauntlet went quite well. It was a simple affair of fighting a pack of hounds, some of which were magical and some of which were not. It seemed a bit wasteful, but I dispatched them without too much ado. Phillipus had been a bit annoyed about my studying outside of his specialty, but it was worth it. The reaction to the combination of Mien of Helios and Icy Grasp was favorable, I was told later that it's uncommon for a gauntlet performance to show proficiency with both fire and ice, and the versatility is considered a good thing. I accepted the compliment without exposing how rudimentary my Ignem really is.

I was elated to be offered a laboratory in the basement of Phillipus' tower. It was with the tacit understanding that I remain at his beck and call, though formally independent, but that would have been the case regardless so I don't mind. I'm also aware that nobody is particularly keen to share a home with Sordus, but I'm used to it. One just has to remember to sniff before drinking, in case his eminence has gotten too close.

Speaking of drinking, there was quite the party for the Ash Gild. I wonder what anyone outside the Ash Gild would think if they came to our meeting and saw upwards of 20 magi, all specialists in belligerence, deep in their cups. I felt honored to be one of the reasons they were celebrating, along with my fellow new magi and new members, Flora and Florimel of Tremere, and Advoke of Tytalus. Flora is wonderful, but I think the presence of her brother kept her a little isolated from amorous advances - it stopped mine, anyway. Another Flambeau gauntleted with us, Mariana, but she didn't come to the gild meeting - I think she may not be from the Rhine. Or, I suppose, she may have joined another gild.

Phillipus announced that he finally got Murion and Stentorius to agree to an expedition (amazing enough that they agreed on anything, I wonder how much it was because nobody wants to make a real enemy of him). It's something to do with the Eastern border, the Ash Gild has promised to vote with the Oak, against all the others, and in return the Oak will support an expedition. It will be a foray into the upper reaches of Scandinavia. He is giving the Gild time to prepare, for which I am grateful, but his impatience is obvious - before the drinking got truly underway, he announced that we were to meet in Skagen two weeks after the tribunal of 1200 ends.

Anyway, all that aside, I restrained myself in the drinking. I was up at my usual dawn the next morning, and was able to find the book I was hoping to: The Pleasures of Ignition, by Sute ex Flambeau. I managed to get in and out before most people were awake, especially the hung-over members of the Ash Gild, and avoid the rush for such volumes that Phillipus' announcement may have triggered. I think it behooves me to prepare as much as I can, while I can, so I will be devoting myself for now to the study of the Founder's school. I think it will serve me better in the far north than Apromor or Boreas.

[Study Pleasures of Ignition, by Sute ex Flambeau - Ignem Summa L12 Q17 - 30 xp after book learner + affinity]

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50

L12Q17 summa is on the high side. Did you use a die roll to determine that, or was that simply your decision?

Otherwise that sounds fine. Total xp is high but that is because of virtues.

51

It was just a decision, I can lower it if you want. I will make sure things even out regardless

52

You don't have to. Just remember to balance it out later with something on the lower end of the qualities.

Personally, I use a die roll to help me decide if Clusius got his hands on a good or an inferior quality book. If my luck turns out to be consistently rotten, I may decide to arbitrarily add someting near the end of his period.

If you check out my topic, you'll see that my magus isn't very focused, nor is he making optimal decisions all the time. Only 67 xp and 20 levels of spells over 8 seasons. I'm just letting the story carry me.

53

Sure. Wolfgang's development will probably be more episodic, periods of focused study interrupted by periods of going out and doing stuff that doesn't give a lot of xp.

54

Fall 1194

I continued reading this season. I found I was almost stalked by Flora and Florimel, I spotted them a few times, and I think they want the book. I'm almost done with it, no elders would want it, I think, but I'm not certain I could win in Certamen against them so I avoided being near enough to hear a challenge. It is cowardly of me, but so be it – I must stay focused on being ready, no matter how much I might want to be better friends with them. Fortunately nobody bothers me much in my basement.

[Continue to study Pleasures of Ignition, by Sute ex Flambeau - Ignem Summa L12 Q17 - 30 xp after book learner + affinity]

Winter 1194

Well, I finally gave them the book. I don't know how they intend to study together, and I'm afraid after the seasons I avoided them we may never be friends, but who knows if they would have been anyway? In any case, they have that excellent primer, and I have only been able to find an odd summa, A Tool of Light and Flame, by Ranulf ex Flambeau. It is very comprehensive, but not easy to read.

[Study A Tool of Light and Flame, by Ranulf ex Flambeau - Ignem Summa L17 Q7 – 15 xp after book learner + affinity]

Spring 1195

I had quite a harrowing experience during the spring thaw. Sordus took off! According to Phillipus, he smelled a female, and his normal lethargic self felt the spring in the air and took off after her. I couldn't object, though I find it ridiculous that I need to do this, but Phillipus assured me that Sordus was quite willing to come home, just afraid... Afraid! of his erstwhile mate. Phillipus doesn't want to kill her, since the basilisks are so few, so he gave it to me as a challenge. I think he intended me to take an egg for my own familiar, as a reward, but while I said nothing, I'm not interested. When I eventually find my companion, I do not intend it to be such a lazy creature as Sordus is. Nor do I want to face the difficulties of drinking good beer forever that I deal with now. Anyway, it took almost two months trekking through the forest to find the female's cave. I really should invent a spell to make things easier. While she was larger, and more fearsome than her mate, the female turned out to be relatively simple to deal with – dangerous, but slow, just as lazy as Sordus, and unable to pierce my Parma with her deadly gaze. I grabbed an egg, and I managed to keep her occupied chasing me around her cave, which allowed Sordus to escape her. When I saw that he had fled, I left the egg, and she was too lazy to pursue me at that point. Sordus and I headed back, but he must be the slowest walking creature I've ever encountered. We got back safe and sound, but the season was spent.

[Story XP – Parma 5 xp, Magic Lore 3 xp]

Summer 1195

The beautiful Flora finally left, along with her brother. They did at least say goodbye to me, though they didn't visit with me much before they left. They're back in Provence by now, with a stack of books they've copied from the Great Library. They were here a year, and they left with quite a large number of copies – and I know that means they must have copied an equal number of books that remained here at the disposal of the librarians. They had tokens, so there could very well be some magic afoot. I wonder, can twins bind themselves to each other magically? Or does that happen innately? Could they share memories or senses or both? Would that even help them to copy? Perhaps if each one was copying, and somehow a memory of what they copied was stored... I've heard of memory palaces, but I've never been trained in that, perhaps that's the solution? Someday I'll learn more Mentem but not any time soon, maybe then the mystery's solution will be obvious.

[Study A Tool of Light and Flame, by Ranulf ex Flambeau - Ignem Summa L17 Q7 – 15 xp after book learner + affinity]

Fall 1195

For a change of pace, this season I brought back Ranulf's summa and tried to find a better one – and I did! Genesis Magica by Yannis ex Jerbiton I was surprised to find it available, but I did, and snagged it. I got a nasty letter – my first Hermetic correspondence! But my elation at receiving my first piece of correspondence was diminished by the contents of the letter – a polemic about my absence at the Mercuriad this spring, at Aedes Mercurii. I can't believe I forgot about that! But it's such a long way... I'll definitely have to go this spring, but I'll need to find a way to avoid making that trip every year... I wonder how many here are part of the cult? I haven't noticed any rituals happening, but this is a big covenant, so that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Study Genesis Magica by Yannis ex Jerbiton - Creo Summa L14 Q15 – 18 xp after book learner]

Winter 1195

Cold, lonely, miserable. My basement is actually colder than outside – how is that possible? If I warm it with Ignem, Sordus comes and stays all day... which means I can't have a drink without leaving the lab, and going out into the cold. I sort of like the lizard, I think he's cute, but I can't imagine having one as a familiar. I wonder why Phillipus doesn't enchant the bond to suppress those effects? I guess he doesn't care, or likes the effect it has on others. I had to spend the whole season fixing a connection for Phillipus – connected to some site in Sweden, he says.

[Exposure – Parma Magica +2 xp]

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55

My only problem here is that you are having your character studying from books, season after season, without anything ot anyone disturbing him. That's 7 seasons straight, milking your Book Learner virtue. No one is asking you to provide any service to the covenant? Nothing happens to disturb your study plans?

I think you should lose at least one of those seasons of study to something really sub-optimal, like fixing arcane connections for someone else. :wink:

56

Yeah it seems very very very very very fortuitous....unless the next 7 seasons are ones where you get 2-4 exposure/practice xp....

57

And note that though lab work may only give exposure, but the other benefits it provides makes it qualify as "uninterrupted study". So if this is followed by several seasons of lab work, my comment still applies.

58

I thought we were aiming for around 45 xp per year before virtues?

I will cooperate with whatever power limitations Arthur wants to impose but the idea that gauntleted magi are mostly at the beck and call of others is not really accurate.

59

A season in a period of two years hardly constitutes "mostly at the beck and call of others".

I just want events to happen that will sidetrack or de-optimize advancement. Spending multiple years in dedicated study or following a plan is not realistic. Would that happen in play? The objective of narrative advancement is to simulate actual play, not to set an arbitrary limit to the amount of xp. A good narrative that forces the character to invest xp into abilities that are not really beneficial can grant more xp overall but won't increase the power level. A poor narrative allows the character to pump all of the xp into a limited set of Arts or Abilities to optimize a narrow specialty.

For example, a season spent hunting down faeries that are harrassing Durenar's collecting of vis sources, and which gives your character some xp in Hunt and/or Survival (or even Faerie Lore), would be totally appropriate. Having a member of the future expedition prepare a number of charged items for use by the grogs would also make sense (these items being consumed during the expedition) -- it forces your character to only 2 xp from exposure but gives him a lab text that can be reused later.

60

I would note you will want to adjust the dates you have above. We're starting in 1205, so 1193 is a bit early unless we're allowing for more than 10 years.

61

Well I picked a tribunal year, like we all did I assumed?

Anyway I'm having hard time staying enthusiastic about this game given the harsh reactions I've gotten, I'll be thinking about this over the weekend.

I thought this would be a mid-high power game, I tend to have less fun with low power games which it seems like this is actually going to be; but I do enjoy this character and the setting we are in. Just hard to pick up my "pen" right now.

62

I hope my responses haven't felt harsh.

63

It's nice of callen to try and draw some of the responsibility, but I'm pretty sure you were thinking of my comments when you wrote 'harsh'.

My comments weren't meant to be harsh. Of course, I am trying to read and comment of every character creation topics, so sometimes I can be in a hurry and fail to select the best words. My apologies for that.

I would also note that our expectations are based on our experiences. My experience with Ars Magica dates from the early 90's, with 3rd Edition. Back then, the epitome of power was being able to cast Ball of Abysmal Flame with some penetration. There has been a significant power creep since then. It is even notable within 5th Edition, from early supplements like Guardians of the Forest describing, for example, Phillipus Niger of Flambeau as being one of the most powerful magi of the Order. Compare that with the power level being discussed in a supplement like Hermetic Projects.

That is why we had to discuss 'power level' in more details in Saga Discussions. Simply saying medium-power or high-power isn't enough, for there are too many paths to power.

Looking back, there was one element we failed to discuss. That is Hermetic age and how it relates to the power level of magi. At what age does a magus or maga expected to be able to beat an 'average' threat? To me, with the lifespan of the 'average' magus reaching around 70 years post-Gauntlet, it may easily take 20 to 30 years before a magus comes to his Hermetic adulthood. The peak of his or her power only comes around 50 to 60 years post-Gauntlet.

At 10 years post-Gauntlet, a magus is quite young. He or she will be able to beat an average threat if it falls within his or her specialty, but often with some difficulty. For some magi, less focused on conflict, it may take twice or thrice that time.

So it comes down to the pace of advancement, and the Hermetic age of your magi at the time play start. I did suggest not making your magi too old because of the time and efforts it requires to advance them, and the troupe seemed to agree with that. The troupe also seemed to want all magi to be approximately the same age and power level. Personally, I don't particularly mind if one or more of the magi are a bit older. My only worry is the time and efforts to get there, before we play a single story.

You probably had a certain goal in mind for your magus to have reached before play starts. So what if it takes your magus 5 more years to achieve that? If the troupe agrees, we just need to make your magus a bit older than the rest.

I would finally note that how powerful a character is -- well that's not what makes a character interesting to play, or interesting to create stories for. What the character seeks to accomplish, how he does it, the mistakes he makes on the way, his struggles with right or wrong. Those are elements that make a great character, someone we want to read more about. Those are what make a story worth writing and reading.

The rest are just numbers on a screen, in my very humble opinion.

I hope you can find the fire within yourself again. That you can find your character's struggles as inspiring as they can be, as they deserve to be.

(I should probably be sleeping right now. I may be rambling. If so, my apologies again.)

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