Character Creation: General Discussion

Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Isle of Wrath
258

I might have misunderstood.

By the book, if I have Might 5 (before modifications due to size or Might-increasing qualities) I have 5 points of qualities, right? And then, each extra point must be balanced by an inferiority? And in theory I could have 50 extra qualities, as long as I balance them with 50 inferiorities?

So what we are agreeing on is that if my Might is 5 I have 5 free qualities, and to gain new qualities through transformation I must first buy 1 extra Might point for each new quality I want to accommodate? So far this is what I'm getting.

But do we also cap qualities paid for in inferiorities? Otherwise, what stops me from making a 0 might creature and piling up qualities (with the necessary inferiorities) on it through transformation?

EDIT: not that I would do that, mind you. No need to worry. I'm just trying to iron things out.

259

I'd have to dig into those rules again to confirm but my recollection is that you are correct. I don't believe I recall a hard cap to those in RAW. I'll address this further below.

This seems correct to me as well.

  • I don't believe any Magic Being would be "balanced" metaphysically speaking at a Might Score of Zero or even generally 5. With a score of Zero it is essentially barely Magical, with a 5 it is amongst the weakest of Magic Beings. It also would not be a Might Score that is fitting for basically anything but the weakest of mystical beings, generally the most minor or the developing young of more powerful beings. In general I would stipulate that either the larger and more physically powerful, or mystically powerful, or older and more advanced in general that a Magical Being becomes the less appropriate that a lower Might Score becomes. This seems hard to establish a firm rule for, but it is something I would have my mind on when evaluating creatures and advancement.

  • I do think some type of upper limit cap on Inferiorities seems apt if only to prevent the absurd from being seen as permissible. Do we have a suggestion for a cap?

  • The Magic Realm by nature seeks perfection and improvement towards its essential nature. This is not in keeping with artificially (for gamist reasons) keeping a low Might Score.

  • While creature advancement is nominally under the control of players if necessary it could be stipulated that at certain judged points that the creature would crave the increase of Might Score, driving it to appropriate behavior to fulfill the need. Enough to become problematic until something changed, such as eating your vis supply or grogs to make it happen. If you go and get a dragon hatchling, as it tries to grow and fulfill its nature it is going to be hungry at the very least.

Thoughts?

260

Agree with all on a metaphysical (maybe metamagical? I digress) level.

But the very reason we are talking about imposing a limit to qualities based on might is to stop a metagaming exploit (not that all metagaming is harmful, but I do think the particular one exemplified would be). So we might very well go all the way, right?

I mean, we could all simply agree to not abuse the system, and then no house rule would be necessary. I'm always strongly in favor of dealing with problems only when (if!) they become problems indeed.

261

I think this is the best solution. We all seem to be of the same mindset and if anyone has any concerns about a character that is being created, we address them then.

262

I've been thinking on this. She'll actually be pretty good at buffing people around her. A male warrior who can manage social interactions with nobility or similar might work. With all the children she's having, there is also room for someone to make a Gifted child if they want, though right now that would be a 1-year-old or one still in the womb. I had been debating if someone might make a companion of Sadb, but she's too tied to my maga and so is really better as a grog.

263

I have a vague concept in the back of my mind for a willful and headstrong Irish knight who sought out the Cult of Heroes trying to become the hero that Hibernia needs to withstand the English. I'm not sure what form it would take (in fact I'd be open to suggestions) but that kernel of a concept appeals to me.

264

Ok, a concept got a hold on me. What can I do to make this guy fit with our cast of magi?

Key idea: Praesis librarian survived.
This guy was Praesis librarian. He is already getting old, but has a lot of knowledge on the most diverse subjects.
He remembers a lot about Praesis, and can give a detailed account of the things stolen by the continental magi. If we decide to explore Praesis' ruins he could be of great help, remembering where each magus had his lab, passwords and traps to certain places, etc. And he has an excellent memory (aided by the Art of Memory ability) and can tell you the list of all of Praesis books, and even who read each book and when. Besides other things.

He knows a lot about the Coil Trí, having been present for several meetings between Praesis and the Coil.

And last, but not least, he is a skilled librarian (we will need one, won't we?), and scribe, fluent in Latin, Gaelic and English, and knowing enough Magic Theory and (Realm) Lore to copy books without corrupting them.

So, what do you think? He is a guy with an academic bent, and depending on the abilities other than his professional ones he can fulfill different roles, it really depends on the needs of the magi.

My other ideas:

  • Merging the mercenary captain and the kennel master idea: a mercenary who likes to train dogs on his spare time. He wants to train a magical one, and joining the covenant gives him more chance of finding and capturing one. Could work with Vorsutus.

  • A viaticarus as a companion for @Nithyn. Since he is technically dead he is not affected by Domnall's gift. I'd give him banishing, an ability he acquired after dying and returning. He believes God gave him this ability to put the dead to rest, and that this is his sacred mission. Both can collaborate to end ghosts, but would likely disagree on how to deal with zombies.

So, opinions?

265

Brilliant in concept. I'd be very curious to see how you develop it. I could see character being a refugee somehow caught outside of Praesis during the opening phase of the siege and never being able to go home. Then volunteering for joining Inchmore as it is founded?

I'd be all for this, for sure.

266

I think someone may have mentioned a Redcap before. Especially if part of the Cult of Heroes, my maga would get ally with such a Redcap. If seriously into the Cult of Mercury, they might search out ancient Mercurian stuff together. But they could also just work separately while having a common bond.

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267

That would be me! As currently bouncing around in my head, he's a vis monkey. Think Gordon Gekko in Recap form. Lots of vis lending, investing, and the like. It's why I thought of @RafaelB at first given his merchant shtick.

That said, it's not hard at all to imagine him tied into the Cult of Heroes. There's a reason I said he'd work well with both magi after all!

268

So, regarding the Surviving Librarian, this is what I have so far.
@Nithyn, do you think he would be a good fit for Domnall?

A relatively older man who worked his way up, from scribe to librarian... and then Praesis was attacked. He managed to survive due to luck (and a good hiding spot).
He used to work as a translator and advisor for the magi of Praesis, but disliked it (he prefers the company of books).

Basic V&F:

Virtues: Custos, Arcane Lore, Book Learner (the reason he became a librarian to begin with was his love of books), Baccalaureus (I figure his privileged access to the library could merit the extra XP, as if he had undergone a traditional education), Minor Enchantments (a ring with the spell to create a temporary memory locus), Puissant Art of Memory.
EDIT: strike Baccalareus, that's a social status virtue (I thought it was a General one) and he should be a Custos instead. Replace it with Educated.

Flaws: Poor Memory (prone to forgetting faces not stored on the memory palace), Lame, Proud, Fear (of fire) (since the Siege. The flames created by Guillaume of Flambeau left a deep impression on him), either Flashback (the siege of Praesis) OR Lingering Injury OR Night Terrors.

Abilities: High values of Art of Memory, Profession: Librarian and Profession: Scribe. Some Praesis Lore, varied degrees of (Realm) Lore, OoH Lore, Coill Tri Lore. Code of Hermes, basic Common Law. Fluency in Latin, Gaelic and English. Old enough to have reasonable values of Charm, Etiquette and/or Folk Ken.

He can work well with most magi (mostly advising on the supernatural realms and Coill Tri), and is experient enough to recognize the Gift for what it is, so I think he could overlook @Nithyn's character Blatant Gift. Better yet, could have former ties with a ghost necromancer from Praesis (having worked a lot for the guy), making him an immediate asset for Domnall.

Still thinking of what would work best as a story flaw. Trying to avoid the "secretly responsible for the fall of Praesis" cliché, but if he worked with a necromancer before then perhaps he learned something he shouldn't from the undead.

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269

I think he's a really interesting character, and someone that I'm super excited to see at the covenant! He'll generate some rather interesting plots I imagine, plus I know you're rather fond of the everyday covenant type stories. That said, I freely admit that my only concern comes from how I've always viewed the role of companions and nothing else.

To me, companions exist so that when we're telling stories about a given mage, the other players have something to do and aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs. That means that the companions need to have a reason to go out adventuring and the like with a given mage. On the other hand, I do admit that this is far less of a problem in a play by post environment, as we're capable of running multiple stories simultaneously.

To be clear, there can and should be companion tier characters who are more homebodies and not explicitly 'attached' to a given mage as it were. So this is more a hangup of mine than anything else I s'pose? Anyhow, again, I really like where you're going with the character! He'll make for some very fun stories, especially in regards to Praesis, as Domnall very much is going to go ruins diving as it were sometime in the near future.

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270

I have a similar view of companions, tbh. Here I'm mostly trying to make him merge reasonably well with at least one character in particular.

He wouldn't be quite a guy to stay at home (although you are right, I do find these kinds of stories interesting - I'm up for all of the flavors of play!), but more like a guy who would prefer to stay at home if possible at all, but is just too useful to not be made use of.

For Domnall, do you think he can be bent towards the kind of stories you'd be interested in? Part of the reason his V&F are still poorly defined is for me to adjust him as needed (and also, I find characters with more breadth more interesting).

I imagine that with a variety of Realm Lores he can cover knowledge on different kinds of undead, and while not particularly sociable he is way better than Domnall (both due to his experience and due to not being Blatant Gifted). But so far the link is still weak (that's why I suggested a past connection with necromancy). But if you don't think that would be appealing enough, I can easily gear him towards someone else. =]

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271

Glad for the clarity! I took it to mean that he'd be our librarian too, hence my confusion. And as for the day to day stuff, don't worry, your preference has been noted, and we'll be sure to have some threads for you to pick at!

Absolutely! I suddenly am getting strong The Mummy (the 99 version, obviously) vibes, and I'm totally here for it! Curious to see where your head is at ultimately with the V&F.

Indeed! Having someone to speak for the extra spooky necromancer is always a welcome move. As is covering all the academic-y stuff. We can absolutely tighten up the connection between the two for sure. Could easily have encountered each other a few times during his apprenticeship. And there's a very real chance that Domnall went poking around Praesis after everything cooled down as it were. Another fairly easy chance for them to cross paths as it were.

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272

Oh, no confusion at all. I was also thinking of making him the librarian. ^^
After all, he needs to make a living, right?

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273

Precisely!

So on the topic of companions, I was playing with the Redcap concept. Ended up going down a rabbit hole, and I had an interesting idea that I wanted to run past you. Given that being a vis broker would necessitate the writing of contacts when issuing loans and the like, I was going to make him extremely well versed in the Code. To the point where he is doing some work on the side as a Hermetic lawyer as it were. Was even thinking that he might want to try and become a Q some day.

As an aside, what do folks think about allowing me to use the Heroic character slot for my Redcap? As per @Vortigern he's aiming for a higher powered tier of companions (allowing up to might 15), and given @callen 's close ties to the Cult of Heroes, I thought it would be a good way to have strong ties to two mages.

274

Don't see a problem about Heroic (partially because I've never seen a character as such at play and I'm curious).

An expert in the code seems like a great asset for Atheus, for counseling him and ensuring his activities remain (at least barely) legal. And I'm sure he is going to need an advocate sooner or later.
Plus, plenty of chances for him to go to the Tribunal, which is always nice.

I say go for it. =]

275

I'd say tentatively yes to the Heroic Redcap. It fits the setting we are in with Cult of Heroes being a major theme for the Redcaps here and ultimately most Heroic Character builds still are not powerful enough to warrant a Mage slot assignment. And we are aiming high powered as it were, and allowing Might 15 Creatures ... it doesn't seem outlandish in comparison.

Ultimately at the end of the day in Ars ... it doesn't truly matter as much what your "Single Weapon" ability is if someone can Pilum you in the face. Mundane competencies have to rather specialized and tailored to be genuinely useful and even then often magic can obsolete them eventually. Another way of saying I am not super concerned as regards any "game breaking" potential.

276

My thoughts exactly! As I said, part legal expert, part vis trader. Feels like the two would mesh really well with each other, as you'd need to know contract law in order to lend vis etc.

And trust me, I'm all for some tribunal stories! Really excited at the possibility of using the debate rules for literally the first time ever too!

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277

Everyone, I could use some help with the Librarian. Regarding his story flaw, I'm thinking of the following:

He has memorized something, but does not recognize the true value of the information, or he once knew something very valuable, but either blocked the memory of let it fade (it could still be recovered by the right people, with the right spells). Either way, people are interested on the information.

Here is where I got stuck with the direction to follow. What knowledge, about who? Who is interested? I don't want to spin this around the character itself, I'd rather we explore the magi and the conflict between Irish and continental magi, but I'm finding it hard to develop the knowledge/secret along those lines.
(Once this is defined it will be easier to frame it as a named story flaw.)

One thing that interests me on the overall idea is the eventual necessity of going memory diving into his mind to obtain the knowledge.

I could also scrap this and try a different direction altogether. I have other possible flaws in mind, but since they don't help to tie the character stories to the magi I am not that interested in them (except for one where some of the books he copied became corrupted (as in RoP:I) due to demonic intervention, and the librarian now wants to find and destroy the copies, which means we can tie this to any magus simply by making a corrupted copy about a subject in which the magus is interested).