Character Creation: General Discussion

Talking about companions (I haven't finished the magus yet, but I'm about to! XD) I've been thinking about 2 concepts, both related to the Infernal.

  1. A repentant cultist. He was, misguidedly, a member of a diabolic cult. As soon as he realized what the group really was he found a way to denouce it. His testimony per chance reached the ears of a member of the Order, who sent the hoplites to destroy the group. He was spared, and while still being seen with some distrust by the Order, he is useful due to his knowledge. The group he was a member of was just a minor cell, and the real responsibles are still on the loose. His current goal is to stop the cultists plot: unleash a plague over Ireland.
    He might have some minor supernatural power, but nothing too big.

  2. A knight on a holy quest. The character is inspired by a scene in "The High History of the Holy Grail" where Lancelot draws a circle in the ground with his sword, stopping diabolic knights from crossing or affecting those inside.
    The knight seeks to drive evil out of Ireland. He'd have a relic (a necklace with a piece of bone inside), and a "holy sword" which can be used to draw a Circular Ward Against Demons (I'm thinking lvl 15, +8 levels for penetration 16, +2 levels for 3 uses/day, total lvl 25). He believes the sword to be of divine origin, but it could be an hermetic enchantment, or be crafted by a craftsman Touched by the Divine (circular wards do go beyond of what a standard Touched craftsman could enchant, however).
    He'd be noble and pious, of course. Standard knight in shining armor.

Both characters would be focused towards fighting demons, one with his knowledge, the other with his sword. Outside that, they are useful in different ways.

What do you all think? Do any of them seem better suited to the saga, or to a a particular magus? I think both could be useful to Leah, and neither seems particularly useful to Ronan. As for Eadric and Aoibheann, it could go either way?

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Re: Cultist

You could mix in some hedge magic here if you wanted, in theory. The Cult could be overtly religious (a black monastery anyone?) or it could have been a hedge tradition. It sounds like you don't want to dip into infernal methods/powers or the like. Which ... basically makes it sound like you don't want to play an active not-nice infernalist (frankly that doesn't bother me as an idea, but I am unusual there I gather) so much as someone who dipped their toe in and then informed on the cult/tradition whatever.

Re: Knight/Paladin

There are Templars (and likely other knightly orders, not that I have knowledge of them all historically speaking) in Ireland. The idea occurs to me that he could be a Brother-Knight with a License of Absence (Church pg 26), placing him in some way on permanent detail/assignment to Inchmore ... on sort of inquisitorial duty (demon/infernalist hunter).

There are options here if we end really like either of the concepts.

Agreed. And honestly, I suspect any companion of mine will likely have a close connection to Faerie. Maybe a method/power or two.

As for the knight, I have concerns that he might run off and immediately get to smiting (or rather trying to) a major plot point that I have in mind for the saga, so the cultist has my vote? Seems like a very fun companion, and one that would mesh extremely well with a wannabe hoplite.

I kind of like this idea? Maybe it presented itself as simply a darker magical tradition as opposed to something overtly infernal. Would go a long way to explaining how he got hoodwinked.

Hoplite Hopeful. Not wannabe. :slight_smile:

Both companions look like fun additions to the game!

Note that I had an horrendous trip back home, so I’m still licking my wounds. But I’ll have some Leah background for general consumption soon.

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Sorry to hear that friend! Feel better soon, and there's no rush.

put their name

Sounds like you need a vacation from your vacation!

Glad to hear from you and whenever you are ready. We aren't trying to rush through anything by any means.

I am entertaining thoughts about Valgaldrar for the character. Or maybe Ars Goetia (Summoning and Binding). But my first impulse was to avoid anything too heavily infernal (such as Maleficia), specially so without having a clear picture about the Infernal landscape in Hibernia.

Oh, this looks like a very good reason to play the cultist instead (tbh, the knight could also end up trying to smite the covenant, or Vorsutus, depending on the specifics). Let's shelve him for now.

I'll think a bit more about the cultist, probably gear him to be either Vorsutus or Leah companion. I'll discuss the details with the magus' player before (and any relevant story details with the SG's) =].

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If he is suitably nefarious and hedge-wizardly then he could make a good Companion for Vorsutus.

I checked. Threads of Fate does not work well in general with Lesser Craft Magic. The problem is the specificity of the event. You could for example, make an item that gives you improved rolls for a particular battle with lots of uses. You could then go through that battle using the item repeatedly. But after the battle the item would become worthless.

I think I understand the perspective there but almost I'd view that as more akin to a "target" sort of factor of the fate/luck effects at play (reweave chance/fate during x event). I am not sure I'd agree though that a given effect is defined/set by that as a factor at creation. I think you'd just have to declare that sort of thing (event) when you used the item along with the normal target, and it would be limited as normal.

I don't think that is consistent with Lesser Craft Magic. Consider Skinchanger + Lesser Craft Magic: you have to choose the animal ahead of time. Consider Enchanting Music + Lesser Craft Magic: you have to choose the emotion ahead of time. Choosing the animal or the emotion ahead of time is the equivalent to choosing the event, is it not?

Now, since the time investment can be pretty small, it may well be worth spending 6 or 7 vis to make a device that will only work for one event. It will let you get so many dice-roll adjustments through that one event. But you would want to do that only when you know the event will be really big.

All of your examples seem like examples of "effect" to me. Which I would agree completely that an "effect" needs to be set in a design for an enchantment/magical item. But Targets do not. If you have a magical item that allows shapeshifting, anyone can pick it up and use it. The "event" I see as functioning more akin to a target. You have to use it "on" a person and their interaction with an anticipated event, but I think that the event doesn't need to be part of the effect design itself and could instead be declared like a target when the item is used.

The Target is explicitly Personal. You'll be adding +5 levels to that to bump it up to Touch, or further if you need.

Correct. At a minimum that, plus uses etc.

With an explicit Target of Personal, I really don't think most people would buy that the event is an additional Target.

Also, consider that, if the event is part of the target, then you really have to penetrate all those at the event. So, for example, to use the die-roll replacements when fighting against a Hermetic mage, you would have to penetrate their Parma Magica or not apply the die-roll replacements. But that does not seem to be the intent at all here.

I didn't say it "was" an additional Target, I said it was like a target in that you have to declare an event/situation that is being modified. That doesn't mean it functions just like a Target for a Hermetic spell... it isn't a Hermetic spell, it doesn't have to function just like one. I think you are applying a lot of concepts from thinking about how Hermetic magic normally functions to something that doesn't have (or appear to) work that way. It is an effect of a Form that doesn't exist in Hermetic Magic at all, after all. The closest thing is like the Fortune Form for Learned Magicians, just as an example. Though not the same. There are no Hermetic equivalents.

I'll ask a new way. How do you make the spell casting roll to make the item? You have to actually make that roll to create the item. But isn't this a precursor to making the roll?

I don't want to fight about it. If you want to rule it acceptable, go ahead. I'm fine with it. I'm just saying if you bring it to the boards I expect nearly nobody would buy this.

That may be so. Even perhaps probable given the frequent tenor of the boards. I'd certainly expect some to lean towards being restrictive if there were any reason to do so at all. I wouldn't expect that to be unanimous but then ... what is in this community?

But I'll put this another way as well.

Lesser Craft Magic is expressly "for" allowing users of Supernatural Abilities to craft magical items. It gives Hedge Magic based on Supernatural Abilities the ability to do that, when before it that didn't exist. The intent expressly is to model such Hedge Magic Traditions (if desired) and allow them to craft items using their abilities.

I'm much more of a mind to find a way to make it work, as it appears fully intended to, than a reason why it shouldn't.

I don't think I was really reaching here, but if you do then I won't argue with you about that any further either. But I was certainly not exceeding the intent of Lesser Craft Magic in any way.

Either way ... we don't really need to completely agree here to keep moving in a productive (and hopefully harmonious) way. If we want a Hedge Tradition we are friendly with, we can either pick or design one and I'm fine with either. Or not having one.

So as it stands, we have a companion for @Vortigern in the works thanks to @RafaelB and one for @RafaelB thanks to me.

@Vortigern and @callen I know you both are more or less done with your magi, any thoughts about companions?

Figured I'd leave @Pendry alone since she's bouncing back from her trip and working on Leah.

I will also be making a companion for Vortigern, once I’ve finished Leah. I will happily create others as well, but my current focus is the maga. I’ve been working on history today, but rituals and meetings that only take place every 7 or 12 years makes the math a.little difficult.