Do we already someone who can invoke the city saint?
The modifiers and the full rule are at RoP:D 87
I suspect this will be burdened on my character despite that he isn't good in communication but True Faith and no penalty in Divine Aura make him probably the best one of our magus for this job.
We don't properly need to be able to invoke the saint. That's asking the saint to perform a miracle on our behalf. Presumably there's an easier way to just communicate with him.
You'll probably be the only one with half a chance of success.
you should play GURPS sometime. it regularly utilizes the square cube law , which means taking a value to the power 2/3, or the cube root of the square. Square roots are really pretty simple...
Ah yes, GURPS. Not as bad as some old-school games like Aftermath, but pretty darn complicated.
But really, once you get the square root set in the spreadsheet, it's not so bad.
What spell masteries are we assuming are generally available? I only ask because I'm going to have some rituals mastered and there are precious few of the basic masteries that are at all useful for rituals. So far as I know, the full list of masteries is:
Do we want any of the non-standard masteries to be available to the general public?
Also on the subject of rituals, where do we stand on the question of botch dice for mastered rituals? The rules are not entirely clear, which prompted a very long, and occasionally heated, debate about the subject in 2012, found here: [url]https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/spell-mastery-and-ritual-spells/6698/1].
The argument seems to boil down to one side saying that the rules clearly state that mastered spells use a stress die, but can't botch, and the other side saying that a careful read of the rules on rituals implies that mastery merely reduces the number of botch dice by one.
My read on the situation is that the rules are ambiguous, requiring a troupe decision on the matter. In the end, it depends on how prevalent the saga wants to have magic be. Having a single mastery level removing the risk of botching makes ritual spells a lot more appealing and safe to cast. The end result will be more ritual spells being cast. Requiring multiple levels of mastery to avoid botches makes ritual spells a lot more dangerous to cast and expensive to cast safely, with the end result that fewer rituals will ultimately get cast. It seems to me we should decide how common we want rituals to be and settle the rules ambiguity in favor of that factor.
What do the rest of you think?
I was always under the impression that it simply reduced botch dice when cast under stress.
as for non-standard mastery, I am under the impression that if mystery cults shared these techniques easily, they would soon not be particular to the mystery cult, since those they had shown the technique to could teach others easily...
The only ones that I think should be unavailable to most magi are the Mutantes abilities: Boosted Casting, Harnessed Casting, and Tethered Casting. Otherwise the Flawless Magic guys don't have anything for their rituals. Adaptive Casting strikes me as something that has simply gotten out to the general public, or re-invented.
Part of the debate is whether casting rituals is de facto a stressful situation or not. The rules say that a stress die is used for rituals, but some are quick to point out that it doesn't say it's "stressful" to cast. citing other examples where a stress die is used without actual stress. They also assert that in most cases, magi will make certain that they have a calm situation to cast in. Others say that ritual casting is inherently stressful and therefore it should always have botch dice, even when mastered.
I'm agnostic about this issue. I've designed my magus thus far assuming that it only reduced botch dice by one per mastery level. But I uncovered the thread above in a related search and it showed me that there was not general agreement on the subject. So, I figured I'd raise it to make certain we were all on the same page about rituals and botch dice.
As I like the idea of rituals, and we are playing in a vis-heavy saga, I interpret it as:
Botch dice only come up in stress situations. Most times, ritual casting is not stressed. If a relaxed ritual is being cast by a magus with spell mastery, the character can roll a stress die, and possibly get a higher result, but still has no threat of botching.
Rituals cast under stressful situations - the weather is horrible on the day of the Aegis, or there is the threat of attack - are rolled as stress situations. So a character doing a level 30 Aegis, under stress might have a 1 mastery, a level 1 gold cord, and Cautious Sorcerer would only roll 2 botch die if a 0 came up on the casting roll.
I suppose that casting our Aegis would be stressed, since we must walk the perimeter of the Aegis boundary to work, in public view, for at least an hour. I think this is fair, given that we chose a Major Hook, Urban.
Although ArM 81 clearly say:
I vote that in calm circumstances for mastered ritual spells there is still the stress die but with no botch die roll like it is for formulaic magic.
For the diferent Mastery the one in ArM5 are for sure open to all
Acute sense say "Only those who have received Quaesitorial training can take this ability." so its a no for general use
Although I would like to have Adaptive Casting and Lab Mastery the mastery mentioned in HoH:TL 99 - 100 as Cult of Mercury are restricted to people having the major virtue Mercurian Magic in my opinion
The mastery listet as Mutantes in HoH:TL 99 - 100 need the Mutantum virtue in my opinion.
The Spell Mastery listed in HoH:S 33-34 are clearly mentioned that everyone can use them
I'm not sure about Unraveling and Rebuttal both HoH:S 129 although the description say nothing about it they might need Comprehend Magic.
Despite we said we allow nothing from RoP:Ti pre game I would make a exception for the Apotropaic Mastery (p.122 RoP:TI)
I did not see that, which completely undercuts my argument. Crap. Well, rituals are always stress die, so it's a good thing that I can avoid botches. I'm left with the notion that powerful rituals need to have casters that are 1) Mercurian 2) Cautious Sorcerers 3)Have spell Mastery 4) Strong Gold Cord bond 5) All of the above.
The section on page 86 refers that a maga with a mastered spell may choose to roll a stress die in a relaxed setting, so that they can get a better result. They may do this with no fear if the spell would otherwise be a simple die. Rituals are never simple die.
Sure, Apotropaic Mastery is fine. If Adaptive Casting is forbidden, I'll switch out Poeniten's with Fast Cast. I agree that the Mututum virtue is needed for the Mutantes virtues. Both you and Silveroak feel that the Cult of Mercury Spell Mastery abilites should remain cult secrets, and I can live with that.
I think you're missing a distinction, as I will explain. This portion of the rules says that rituals are always rolled with a stress die. Okay, let's work with that. Let's start by looking at the passage more closely, Page 86 of the rules, under Mastery, says: "Mastered spells are always cast with a stress die, but if the maga is relaxed there is no botch die, even in a non-magic aura or when using vis." (Emphasis mine.)
This seems to say that when casting a ritual in calm circumstances you still roll using a stress die, as the rules require, but that if you mastered the ritual, there is no botch die. Importantly, it does not say that you may cast with a stress die in a relaxed situation if the spell is mastered; it says that you always cast with a stress die in that situation. So there's no choice in the matter. A mastered ritual is always cast with a stress die, just as the rules set forth.
I'm not sure how that conflicts with the rule that Adauli cited. Under both rules, rituals still must always use a stress die.
When Adauli said that he voted that we use a stress die for mastered rituals in calm circumstances, he was missing the point that the rules already require a stress die in those circumstances. There's nothing to vote on in that case. The rules unambiguously say that they you always use a stress die for mastered spells - just as they also say that there is no botch die even when using vis (as you do in a ritual).
You know, one day, I'll read and understand rules before I start typing. It's not going to happen soon, so:
Trogdor, I thank you for your diligence. Page 86 gets around the whole non-magic aura issue that had me so concerned. Just one point of Spell Mastery, and you can cast a non-stressed spell next to the Pope. I'm going to agree with your interpretation, that Mastered spells have no botch die, even in a foriegn aura, or if they are rituals. I'm going to stop talking about this issue, before I look like even more of a fool.
Flawless Magic has to be the best Hermetic Virtue.
Just found the Worship season activity in The Church 27 what bring up some questions (Actual I just got me 2 new books with TC one of them ^^)
How high is the divine aura of the church part of Hagios Demetrios? I think it might be the 8 in the church as well because its a place of pilgrimage despite that the site of martyrdom is in the crypt. (The Divine Aura is the SQ for Worship)
The other question is what I can learn there. With the restriction stated as:
I think for my character this Supernatural Ability would be Blessing, Enchanting Music, Holy Music and Intervention from The Cantores as well as Holy Magic.
(Although one can argue that Holy Magic adjust the arts and parma magica toward the divine I don't think that is enough to use worship exp for them)
Edit: A SQ of 8 would natural make (nearly) all tractatus on this topics useless but as it is very thematic to worship our saint more or less regular I think we should go with the aura of 8.
Here's my thought. I would say that the majority of the church was Dominion Aura 5, with the Aura right around the altar being a 6. A small area in the crypt around where St. Demetrius was martyred would be an 8. I would not say that the entire church in the Hagios Demetrios was an 8. I wouldn't peg the basilica in general as anything higher than a 5.
Here's what the core rules have to say about Divine Auras:
RoP:D goes on to say that a site of a pilgrimage or veneration would have a Dominion Aura of between 4-8.
So, Divine Auras of 6+ are limited in extent. The basilica is an important church, so it ought to be AUra 5. A chapel in the basilica holding relics to St. Demetrius (an important saint for the city, if ever there was one) would have an Aura of 6. Demetrius' relics are not relics of Christ or the Virgin Mary, so I wouldn't up the Aura to 7. As for being a site of a pilgrimage or veneration, I'd peg the basilica right in the middle. So maybe the basilica as a whole could be a 6. Just as reasonable would be to say the basilica is 5 but a chapel in the basilica is 6. (That would allow public access to a 6 Aura without making the whole church a 6, which is supposed to be rare.
True, St Demetrius is an important local saint. But he's not a heavy hitter outside of Thessaloniki. I'd reserve level 7 and 8 Auras for the major Christian pilgrimage sites.
The crypts include the site of St. Demetrius' martyrdom, so that would be an Aura of 8, since he wasn't an apostle. But that Aura would not be super large, just covering the area in the crypt where he was martyred.
That having been said, Paulos is a holy man, and could potentially get permission to pray at the martyrdom site. (It might depend on how much the Church is freaked out by his tattoos.) He could almost certainly be allowed to pray in a chapel holding relics to St. Demetrius.
In the end a SQ of 8 is not that great. A 6 is even worse. So I'd be inclined to say that Paulos has access to the level 8 Aura for prayer. As for what he can study there. Your list seems okay. SQ 8 isn't going to unbalance anything, IMO.
rituals are always cast using a stress die. If your level of mastery brings the botch dice down to 0 then you won't roll botch dice.
Rituals are always cast with a stress die. No question about it. The rules are clear on that, both in the section on rituals and the section on mastery.
But it also says under mastery that if the magus is relaxed they do not roll botch dice "even in a non-magic aura or when using vis", which back in 2012 suggested to you that if before considering the aura or vis the botch dice are reduced to 0 there are no botch dice, even for ritual spells. (GoF Magical Obj Penetration)
So,as I see it, with mastery you still roll a stress die for rituals in relaxed situations (as the rules require), but "there are no botch dice, even in a non-magic aura or when using vis." (ArM rules, p. 86.)
Specifically, it says:
As I read that, it says a few things:
1.) You add your mastery score to your CT;
2.) You subtract your mastery level from botch dice when you have to roll botch dice (e.g., casting in a stressful situation);
3.) You always cast mastered spells (including mastered rituals) with a stress die;
4.) If you cast in a relaxed situation with a mastered spell, there are no botch dice,
So, basically, if you roll a 0 on the stress die when casting a mastered spell (Formulaic or Ritual), that provokes you to have to roll your pool of botch dice. But as noted by the citation above, your pool of botch dice in this case is zero botch dice, so you don't have to roll any.
The thing is that it states that ritual spells are always cast with a stress die because of the complexity of all the factors which need to be considered. There is nothing to indicate that spell mastery eliminates that complexity at a single level. In short the casting of a ritual spell is, according to the RAW, inherently stressful.
That is certainly one interpretation. As I said previously, the rules are not a paragon of clarity on this matter.
We need to decide as a troupe how to interpret the description of mastery. Clearly silveroak and I have set forth our opinions. What do the rest of you say?