Character creation

Holy Magic cannot be used to sin, unless the Infernal step in your magic would simply fail in this case.

I came up with a idea how to solve our 2 season lab problem. How about the ghost of a former apprentice live in our regio? I would create this as my magical grog and so no one need to spend the 2 time slot.
(natural he only have Classical Greek as language and Magic Theory probably at 3. Also he can only interact with the normal environment via personal power ... what I'm not sure right now if work out with a low might)

I will point out that the tool maker I created can set up labs (unlike being an assistant setting them up does not require any background as a failed apprentice or otherwise), and while he is only 19 it can certainly be conjectured that someone else handled the job n the past. He is also a mythic tool maker so he does not take warping from the aura, which someone with no magical advantages would over 2 seasons.

I agree with silveroak. If we decide that anyone with MT can set up a lab, there's no requirement that it has to be a failed apprentice or a magical being. Also, as silveroak posted and I mentioned in a previous post, our current labs don't have to have been set up by someone still in the covenant. Even though the person who set up the lab might be dead now, it's reasonable to assume that the covenant had servants a decade or two (or more) ago, including potentially someone skilled in MT.

The real question is whether we want to allow non-Gifted servants to be able to set up labs. There's nothing in the rules that I'm aware of that prohibits it. But I have been in some sagas where it was decided that you need to have the Gift to set up a lab properly.

It would seem to me that setting up a lab initially- the only variation being size and situational virtues and flaws (underground, outdoors, auspiciously shaped room, etc) would be pretty much something that could be handled by rote, and magic theory:3 should suffice. Modifying the lab with things like refinement and installing features would be a whole different matter...

Ok then lets go with free set up of the lab. (And I don't need to create the Ghost ^^)

I tend to agree with you. The key elements of setting up a lab would seem to be covered by a knowledge of Magical Theory. There's nothing actually magical about lab setup.

I just wanted to be cautious and not make assumptions.

But if three of us are in agreement that lab setup can be handled by someone unGifted, then it seems like that's what we'll go with.

The next question, of course, is whether lab assistants can refine or improve your lab for you. Refinement should take care of itself, since you need an increasingly high MT, which most grogs won't have. But improvement is a thornier issue. Can you have your lab assistant add a Greater Feature to your lab while you read books?

I would say that the first setup including the virtues and flaws fitting into the lab-size can be setup by everyone having Magic Theory 3 or more.
But as soon a lab was refined the magus have to direct the workers him self where each thing is to be placed.
So Refinement and all virtues and flaws installed after the first refinement need time from the magus.
(This way labs for new magus and spare labs for visitors are easy to set up but as soon a magus want to add his personal touch it becomes time consuming to get everything in the way the magus want it.)

This seems correct. If you want to have unGifted people remodel your lab after you personalize it (Refinement) you lose the refinement.

That makes sense.

Though it does lead to the question of what happens when a magus wants to expand the size of their lab. Under this rule there's a definite incentive to increase the size of your lab prior to engaging in any refinement. Not that I'm particularly looking to increase the size of my lab, but it strikes me that we ought to address the issue.

It's easy to say that we can get a lab set up with a lab worker and then filled up to Size +2. But what happens when someone wants that same lab worker to coordinate one of our fine craftsmen to expand the size of the lab to +3 or +4 and then fill it up with more virtues? Clearly if you ever plan to increase the size of your lab you'll want to do it before you refine the lab, since then you can have an unGifted lab assistant fill it with virtues. If you increase the size after refinement, then you have to do the work yourself.

Do we want to simply say that you can't expand the size of your lab pre-game? Maybe you can make your lab larger if you pay for the Size points from your BP pool? Both of those options would work for me.

a few points from RAW:

  1. to refine a lab you have to have worked in it for a number of years. Thus you have to be gifted.
  2. other instillations must be done under the magus supervision. I would assume this also applies to construction being done to expand the lab, if we are allowing such. In the sidebar regarding "Moving a lab" it indicates one reason for moving a lab is to utilize a room with more space, which suggests that a lab cannot simply be expanded any more than it could acquire the flaw subterranean.

Very good points. I think those answer my questions.

Can I buy Reputation like normal ability during character generation?
I like to buy of 1 point Hedge Mage (15exp) and buy at last 3 lvl Ambassador (30 exp)
In the back story from Age 47 to 61 he was send to the Greater Alp Tribunal as Ambassador and for the last ~2 Tribunal he is Ambassador to the Orthodox Church if that is Ok with the rest.
(I took the Profession Ambassador)

Repuations advance like Abilities. Every season that you do something that furthers that rep, you get "XP" in the reputation. So, if you've been a Holy Mage for, oh, ten years, that's 40 seasons, that will give you a Reputation of 3, and in ten more seasons, you'll have a Rep of 4. I've taken Healer as a reputation for Poenitens. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't take them.

Sorry I'm not entire sure how you think we should handle this. I see 2 way you think we should handle this right now:

A. We get some free exp for reputation each season our story tell there was something notable.

B. After 14 years Ambassador I can pay up to 14x4=56 exp from our 10 exp / season for a Ambassador Reputation?

I would like to treat it as each season you get one XP that can only used on Reputation. We will have considerable careers pre-game, and our fame (or infamy) will precede us. So you can have a Level 4 Reputation as an Ambassador.

That seems fair to me.

I also agreed with that.

@Trogdor I decided to let your gardener(s) also work on the outside of my lab, I hope this is fine with you.

That should be fine, so long as your lab isn't too far away from mine. Being a dryad, Diantha doesn't like straying too far from her tree.

I don't think this is a issue as long our labs are both in the regio. Especial we both didn't take Dedicated Building so theoretical our labs could be in the same building just at a different floor.