Ken, I'm only familiar with a couple of pidgins, but if this really is a pidgin, can you even get a score of 5 in it? That is, can you ever express more than simple concepts in it? Doesn't that cap it at, say 3? Languages are a bit odd, as abilities, as I recall, because they represent fluency of communication, but is is possible to be that fluent in a pidgin language? I doubt you can be in the pidgins I know, but they are strongly related to each other (Pidgin English from Papua and the pidgin that is spoken by some Torress Strait Islanders.) and so it might just be in those languages that I doubt you can ever get a score much above 3.
Hi,
I was thinking along similar lines. Pidgins are languages, complete languages, but they are weird. Despite their simplified vocabulary and grammar, it is possible to express complicated ideas in a pidgin, as in any other language. It is even possible to be fluent. But fluency in a pidgin depends upon knowing a base language--in the case of Lingua Franca, a Romance language, Arabic or Greek. Someone fluent in any of these, when spoken to in Lingua Franca for the very first time, will probably be able to hold very simple conversations, say, at the Ars Magica 1 level. Someone who has experience with Lingua Franca can hold sophisticated conversations about a limited range of topics but not others. Pidgins are also weird in that they are malleable, more than most languages, with each conversation potentially creating a temporary dialect.
So I'm imagining that a 3 in a pidgin is normally as good as it gets, in conjunction with fluency in one of the base languages. Some conversations will run smoothly, at a 4 or even a 5. Lingua Franca specifically was a language for trade, diplomacy and sailing in the Med, and will do best there. A ship can be run on LF, and this happened in RL. Other conversations will run into problems, and after the trade or diplomacy has been conducted in LF, the agreement (if any) will be drawn up in other languages. And no one in this period is writing any books in LF.
I had also considered a different approach, to simply tack Lingua Franca on as a specialty to Latin, but LF is its own language. (I suspect that language rules in AM deserve another go.)
Anyway,
Ken
Vortigern posted his character here:
[url]Unknown Cargo: Character Design]
Well, this is ultimately up to the SG, but... ugh. The two flaws, alone, are no problem, but taken on top of MM they just seem... weak. Kinda like a Blind character taking Missing Eye and Poor Vision. Kinda.
The Flaw suggests "something related to Latin, spoken only at the home covenant". The idea being, I assume, that the populus, the grogs, have developed a pidgeon-tongue, and the child was reared with that as their native language. Other than the ban on proper Latin, I'd think you can take any reasonable Native Language you want - Greek would be the obvious one for the Tribunal of Thebes.
The idea of a 5 year old who has done nothing with their life but learn the academic language of the magi worries me on several levels. First, altho' it's "around", I doubt if the kid would have spent so much time talking with magi to immerse the child in it, to count as an available "living language". The socialization questions, also - I mean, sheesh kid, you're only 4 - get a life, go outside and play. 
That's why those rules are there, and written as they are.
(The Forms are 1 higher than recommended, but with Affinities, I've got no problem there at all.)
If learning Latin during Early Childhood gets axed (my vote), he'll need to find the 45 points to replace it (or less, if he's willing to go that route, but I'd guess not). Some can get swapped out from skills taken during Apprenticeship (25, by my count), so it's not too painful.
No Finesse? Meh, whatever floats yer boat. (No current spells need it, and, somehow, I don't see Spontaneous spells arising that will be needing it either...)
Aside from the above, math adds up, looks good to me. (Thanks for the breakdown, btw! Helps so much!)
Don't know this well enough to comment - if it fits the description in the book, if it's true to the color that the Guild brings to the story, it's all good by me. (Altho' 90 xp for a minor virtue strikes me as a bit excessive, but that's a different discussion.)
Or 18, if you back off the Corpus by 1 xp.
Question of Latin aside, looks good! Good work - looks like you connected on your first swing, btw!
...
Now, if you're feeling mui macho, TF let my character use the "Season by Season" post-Gauntlet rules. Rearranging him to have 60 free points* post Apprentice (= 2 years of lab work), and those five Level 10 spells could be knocked off 1/season, leaving him with 3 more seasons to play in the lab on top of that. With current TeFo, that would be 3 more small spells in the Mu/Re Co/Me/Vi area, 80 pts of spells (or more, see below) for 60 CharGen points.
(* Essentially, the five Level 10 spells disappear from earlier, and get replaced by the Level 25 from later and something else.)
8 Te + 11 Fo + 3 MTh +2 Int + 3 (generic Aura) = 27 Mentem, 28 with Vi, 22 Corpus. And the other TeVi default nicely to 20.
Bumping something up (Lab total = 30) would allow Level 15 spells in a season, or a Level 20 in two. Buying any new Technique @ Level 1 would allow a 2nd magnitude spell in that Te w/ Me. Similarly with Muto/Rego and a new Form, tho' he'd need that Art at Level 4, in order to achieve a Lab Total of 20.
(Also, as is, his current Lab total for PeVi allows 14 spell levels in 1 season. PeVi 14 would be a bigger hammer, but less penetration, or he could go the other route, and create two Level 7 spells in one Season - slightly smaller hammer, but slightly more penetration, and he can knock all 4 off in 2 seasons, meaning you only need to rearrange 30 pts for 1 year of lab work. Or... create a Level 4 version of each along with the Level 10, or some entirely diff Level 4 PeVi effect(?). Such "slop" in a Lab Total can create small Formulaic spells that are handy for a character with effectively no Spont spell ability - dealer's choice.)
ReMe10: The Call To Slumber
PeVi10: Demon's Eternal Oblivion
PeVi10: Words Wrought of Iron
PeVi10: Cthonic Invocation
PeVi10: Fellblade of the Art
(Gotta add that I love that he has a PeVi against Might of the Dominion. Pesky angels, don't even think about it!) 
Scipio Dolosus filus Forlitace filus Fulgens filus Tremere
Saga: Uknown Cargo
Setting: Mythic Europe
Current Year:
House: Tremere
Age: 25
Size:
Confidence: 1 / ( 3 )
Decrepitude: 0
Warping: 0
Birth Name: Unknown
Year Born:
Gender:M
Race/Nationality: Eastern European
Place of Origin: Coeris
Religion: Roman Paganism
Title/Profession: ?Magus
Height: 5'7
Weight: 150
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Amber
Handedness: Left
Sigil: Pagan Animus
Certamen School: Gladiatrix
Covenant: Lubeck
Domus Magna: Coeris
Prima: Poena
Parens: Forlitace, Tremere Archmagi of Coeris
Covenant of Apprenticeship: Coeris
Intelligence: +2 (3)
Perception: +1 (1)
Strength: 0
Stamina: 0
Presence: +1 (1)
Communication: +1 (1)
Dexterity: +1 (1)
Quickness: 0
Virtues (10): Minor Magical Focus (Certamen), Mercurian Magic (Major), Temporal Influence (Influence Peddler) (Minor), Skilled Parens (Minor), Mastered Spells (Minor), Ash Gild Trained (Minor), Cautious Sorcerer (Minor), Affinity (Mentem)(Minor), Affinity (Vim)(Minor), The Gift, Hermetic Magus
Flaws (10): Weak Spontaneous Magic (Major), Driven (Hermetic & House Rank)(Major), Covenant Upbringing (Coeris)(Minor), Fragile Constitution (Minor), Difficult Spontaneous Magic (Minor), Small Frame (Minor)
Personality Traits: Pragmatic (+3), Ruthless (+3), Epicurean (+3)
Reputations: N/A
Abilities:
Dacian ( Vocabulary ): 5 ( 0 )
Latin ( Hermetic ): 4 ( 50xp )
Magic Theory ( Vim ): 3 ( 30xp )
Parma Magica ( Mentem ): 3 ( 30xp )
Artes Liberales ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 3 ( 30xp )
Philosophiae ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 3 ( 30xp )
Profession ( Scribe ) ( Copying ): 1 ( 5xp )
Concentration ( Spell Concentration ): 2 ( 15xp )
Penetration ( Vim ): 3 ( 30xp )
Finesse ( Precision ): 1 ( 5xp )
Code of Hermes ( Rights ): 1 ( 5xp )
Order of Hermes Lore ( Conflicts ): 1 ( 5xp )
Magic Lore ( Magical Traditions ): 1 ( 5xp )
Awareness ( Searching ): 1 ( 5xp )
Etiquette ( Nobility ): 1 (5xp)
Intrigue ( Hermetic ): 3 ( 30xp )
Guile ( Fast Talk ): 1 ( 5xp )
Bargain ( Favor-Trading ): 1 ( 5xp )
Charm ( Wit ): 1 ( 5xp )
Leadership ( Planning ): 1 (5xp)
Athletics ( Endurance ): 1 ( 5xp )
Stealth ( Urban ): 1 ( 5xp )
Legerdemain ( Sleight of Hand ): 1 ( 5xp )
Single Weapon ( Gladius/Short Sword ): 1 ( 5xp )
Thrown Weapon ( Knife ): 1 ( 5xp )
Brawl ( Dodging ): 1 ( 5xp )
Arts:
Rego: 8 ( 36xp )
Muto: 8 ( 36xp )
Perdo: 8 ( 36xp )
Corpus: 2 ( +1xp )( 4xp )
Mentem: 11 ( 66xp )
Vim: 11 ( 66xp )
Spells:
ReVi25: Aegis of the Hearth
Mastered: 1 ( Stalwart Casting ) ( 5xp )
MuVi25: Wizard's Communion
Mastered: 1 ( Adaptive Casting ) ( 5xp )
ReVi25: Opening the Intangible Tunnel
Mastered: 3 ( Magic Resistance, Ceremonial Casting, Penetration ) ( 30xp )
PeVi10: Demon's Eternal Oblivion
Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Words Wrought of Iron ( As Oblivion, for Fae )
Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Cthonic Invocation (As Oblivion, for Divine)
Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Fellblade of the Art (As Oblivion, for Magical)
Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
ReVi25: Maintain the Demanding Spell
ReMe10: The Call To Slumber
Mastered: 1 ( Subtle Casting ) ( 5xp )
ReMe20: Scent of Peaceful Slumber
InMe15: Perception of the Conflicting Motives
Mastered: 1 ( Magic Resistance ) ( 5xp )
PeMe15: Calm the Motion of the Heart
Mastered: 1 ( Magic Resistance ) ( 5xp )
Early Childhood ( 45 / 45 xp )
Dacian ( Vocabulary ): 5 ( oxp )
Latin ( Hermetic ): 2 ( 15xp )
Athletics ( Endurance ): 1 ( 5xp )
Brawl ( Dodging ): 1 ( 5xp )
Stealth ( Urban ): 1 ( 5xp )
Charm ( Wit ): 1 ( 5xp )
Guile ( Fast Talk ): 1 ( 5xp )
Awareness ( Searching ): 1 ( 5xp )
Apprenticeship ( 300/300xp - 150/150spells + 50/50xp )
Raise: Latin ( Hermetic ): 4 ( 35xp )
Magic Theory ( Vim ): 3 ( 30xp )
Artes Liberales ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 1 ( 5xp )
Philosophiae ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 1 ( 5xp )
Parma Magica ( Mentem ): 1 ( 5xp )
Penetration ( Vim ): 1 ( 5xp )
Finesse ( Precision ): 1 ( 5xp )
Concentration ( Spell Concentration ): 1 ( 5xp )
Code of Hermes ( Rights ): 1 ( 5xp )
Order of Hermes Lore ( Conflicts ): 1 ( 5xp )
Magic Lore ( Magical Traditions ): 1 ( 5xp )
Etiquette ( Nobility ): 1 ( 5xp )
Muto: 8 ( 36xp )
Rego: 8 ( 36xp )
Vim: 11 ( 44xp )
Mentem: 11 ( 44xp )
ReVi25: Aegis of the Hearth - Mastered: 1 ( Stalwart Casting ) ( 5xp )
MuVi25: Wizard's Communion - Mastered: 1 ( Adaptive Casting ) ( 5xp )
ReVi25: Opening the Intangible Tunnel - Mastered: 3 ( Magic Resistance, Ceremonial Casting, Penetration ) ( 30xp )
ReMe10: The Call To Slumber - Mastered: 1 ( Subtle Casting ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Demon's Eternal Oblivion - Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Words Wrought of Iron - Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Cthonic Invocation - Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
PeVi10: Fellblade of the Art - Mastered: 1 ( Penetration ) ( 5xp )
ReMe20: Scent of Peaceful Slumber
InMe15: Perception of the Conflicting Motives - Mastered: 1 ( Magic Resistance ) ( 5xp )
PeMe15: Calm the Motion of the Heart - Mastered: 1 ( Magic Resistance ) ( 5xp )
--- Concludes Apprenticeship, Mastered Spells, and Skilled Parens point usage.
Ash Guild Trained ( 30/30xp - 60/60points )
Intrigue ( Hermetic ): 3 ( 30xp )
Raise Parma Magica ( Mentem ): 2 ( +4xp ) ( 14xp )
Single Weapon ( Gladius/Short Sword ): 1 ( 5xp )
Thrown Weapon ( Knife ): 1 ( 5xp )
Perdo: 8 ( 36pts )
Post Gauntlet 5 Years ( 150/150points )
Raise: Parma Magica ( Mentem ): 3 ( 16xp )
Raise: Artes Liberales ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 3 ( 25xp )
Raise: Philosophiae ( Ritual/Ceremonial Magic ): 3 ( 25xp )
Raise: Concentration ( Spell Concentration ): 2 ( 10xp )
Raise: Penetration ( Vim ): 3 ( 25xp )
ReVi25: Maintain the Demanding Spell
Legerdemain ( Sleight of Hand ): 1 ( 5xp )
Bargain ( Favor-Trading ): 1 ( 5xp )
Leadership ( Planning ): 1 ( 5xp )
Profession ( Scribe ) ( Copying ): 1 ( 5xp )
Corpus: 2 ( +1xp ) ( 4xp )
A man of slender, even slight, stature. The keen eyes within his hawkish face are framed by an intensity of mein that some could find unsettling. Strong, high, cheek bones are accented by the absence of any excess flesh in his features which creates a contrast that lends severity to his appearance. Long and flowing dark hair is left free to the sides and rear, though on either side of his brow is a single long, thin braid, the pair serving to keep his hair clear of his face. The braids are adorned, seemingly at random, with a small collection of bronze runic charms. His strong chin is enveloped in a full beard showing more of the man's dark hair yet traced through with wisps of lighter color in the way beards tend to be. The beard has a well kept appearance being trimmed, oiled, and groomed in a very 'civilized' fashion. The mustache and center of the beard on and below his chin however, while kept with similar care, have been allowed to grow and almost reach the man's chest. Here another small collection of bronze charms hang. The man's ears are lost in the flowing black hair.
He is dressed in a richly blue doublet embroidered with golden scrollwork the close fit of which accents his lean form. All the buttons are fastened tightly, making the fit even closer than perhaps it might be otherwise. The thick padding of the doublet makes it seem perhaps a warm garment, and shows it's quality. Long sleeves are laced to the garment, of the same make, and extending down all the way to the man's wrists. Flush with the sleeves are the slightly brighter blue leather gloves covering his hands, embriodered with the same golden scrollwork curling about the palms and knuckles of the garment. Around his waist is dark brown leather belt, looped through a fine bronze buckle and tied in typical fashion to allow a generous length to hang down toward the ground. On the right side of the belt is a collection of several pouches all hanging from a set of bronze loops attached to the belt. The pouches are of different colors, materials, and sizes. On the left side is strapped a typical set of traveller's eating knife and spoon accompanied by a rather utilitarian looking dagger. Finally on his hip is a stern, long worn looking gladius. The weapon is plain, completely unadorned, yet very functional seeming. Below the waist he is covered by a set of unadorned yet quality white leggings the bottoms of which are tucked tightly into a pair of sturdy, hard looking, brown leather boots.
Slung across the man's back is moderate sized brown leather pack strapped tightly closed and bearing a look of being well worn with travel, and perhaps adventure.
The entire ensemble is covered by a large dark blue travelling cloak hanging down near the man's ankles. The cloak is thick and of a good cut, yet unadorned save for the plain bronze brooch which holds it in place.
Further background/personality information is in the works. I just don't like giving any BG information until it is completed.
If everyone else is agreeable, I'd like Vortigern to be able to slide his character into the second thread, but not the first thread. We can either have him turn up just before the preparations, or we can have him meet you during play (although that means some slight changes to his background, if you like, Vortigern.)
I'm willing to accomodate either way.
Should I be operating under the assumption that I, like the others, have already to arranged to join the covenant through the elder and now departed Jerbiton? Or am I a new petitioner? Perhaps encountering them on adventure and then 'following them home' to request hospitality in the local tradition and seek eventual membership?
Either would work for me. ( Save vis might become a problem in the second, but that could make life interesting in and of itself... lol. )
Also, for the purposes of the first story thread, are there companions/grogs available to play there?
Some grogs, but none that have had much of a voice, nor is that storyline oriented to such. A grog's opinions on a faerie knight are not the most relevant.
Otoh, it looks(?) like we're about to step out of action and back to the Covenant, if only briefly - a new Character (PC or NPC) could easily be incorporated then.
Hi,
I'm fine with that. Maybe during preparations?
Anyway,
Ken
There are grogs. I believe they are 4 generic faceless guys standing around being generic and faceless, so if you want one or more of them, you go right ahead.
(Could it be time for our first real Companion? Or a specialist, which we could pay for with about a half-dozen Covenant Build points. ~If~ Vort' wanted to run that type of character.)
[quote="Vortigern"]
I'm willing to accomodate either way.
[quote]
Just because PBeM is such a grindingly slow process compared to real life, I'd prefer we just said "The old Jerbiton guy fixed all this and your character was expected from the start." I know its almost as cliche as meeting in the Prancing Pony Inn...but its the wind-down to Christmas and if we have to thrash it out too much, we might still be working on it in February.
Sigil: A scepter of wood overlaid with fine woodcarving insets in certain places. About the sides of the piece, hexagonal in shape, are depictions of various mystical scenes. Books engraved with sigils, Magi casting great spells, A Dragon holding a Rune within it’s claws… many things. Those knowledgeable in such things may recognize the scenes as depictions of the great deeds of the Magi of Scipio's lineage. There is a rounded and smooth section bound in very fine leather for the hand to grasp the rod, and below it is smaller section just as the one above, yet with different scenes. On the butt end of the rod is an inset of Scipio’s full heraldic seal, engraved and inlaid with very fine, though not particularly valuable, stones in the fashion of a mosaic. Capping the rod is a miniature statue of the fox from his seal cast of bronze and finely wrought, grasping a gold key within it’s mouth.
Personal Heraldry: A fox set against a mixed background, half rural/field half city. Searching for the fox are men and clergy on the one hand and a faerie lord with his retinue on the other. The fox is sitting calmly in some sort of hiding place, staring outwards towards the onlooker. In his mouth is clasped a bright golden key.
TF, what slavic language do you consider the language of Coeris? I'll replace greek with that.
I have no idea. To avoid arguments, shall we just call it Dacian and assume it is a strongly localised language, like Jerbiton Rhaetian?
Sounds great to me. I'd suggest/request that it be a language somewhat common among Tremere and their various mundane retainers, regardless of region, then?
Sure, but I sduggest it be a bit like Rhaetian, in that Greek speakers can get across simple ideas in Dacian, much as people who know Latin can get across simple ideas in Rhaetian.