Character Development

Given Lucien was a filius of Trianoma, I don't think there's anything to particularly suggest he had a strong link to Puissant Magic Theory? If she was going for his own lineage, I'd expect it to involve a separate virtue from either of the existing ones. That may be what you mean by it not being canon, but I don't think it's even particularly implied by canon.

Further, if you had that virtue due to your descent from him, I'd expect it to be part of your personal virtues and flaws, rather than those you got from your training by your parens.

This doesn't feel like the short of thing that would be covered by canon - you can certainly make an argument that if it had been known about in advance people would try to make sure he was trained by someone appropriate, and that would make sense - but there are all sorts of ways it could have ended up not happening (starting with people just not knowing about his ancestry at the time he was apprenticed).

I'd suggest not Stonehenge, unless you actively want to be from there - we've had two Bonisagi from there already, and it's not even one of their favoured tribunals. Being from Thebes I suspect is likely to be a more political option than being from elsewhere, so it depends on whether you want that.

One other thought looking at your character sheet - remember that Mythic Blood comes with a free minor personality flaw. I assume for Lucien this would be Seeker, so you need one extra flaw point to balance your virtues.

Well, given that seekers seek for ancient magic knowledge and as filius of Triamona he might have had MT lessons from Bonisagus himself I don't think Lucian having Puissant MT is too far a stretch. It was for sure an important ability for him. Given the fact that he wanted to form his own lineage, I would argue having passed this as a free virtue to his apprentices isn't a far stretch either.

I acknowledge though that this is not canon and if there is no consensus in the troupe I'll build up the story and character in accordance to the canon.

I was planning for dual heritage, both mundane and hermetic, i.e. being trained by my father/mother and parens/mater all the way back to Lucian.

I am not going to be very politically inclined, but is that really a must have for magi trained in Thebes? I see another potential problem, depending on the origin of the other magi probably. Is the covenant library a Latin or Greek or mixed one? In short, what is the language of the covenant?

You are right about that one. I am still in the process of sorting out the Virtues and Flaws, think there is also at least one minor virtue too much...

In the process of writing up a bit of motivation, goals and history of Caecus ex Bonisagus I am anyway thinking of changing the ancestry to Bonisagus himself. So there is probably no reason to argue on the matter much more.

Okay - I had been going to say that the dual heritage seemed unlikely, given that it implied a massively greater reliability of the heritability of the Gift than is standard. But I assume you're dropping that bit as well, rather than transferring it to Bonisagus.

Well, it is of course dual heritage. Being the mundane descendant of Bonisagus and trained as magus of house Bonisagus.

CDI would prefer the even tighter link, i.e. that my parens is also my ancestors and descendant of Bonisagus. I would also argue that, first it does not require any reliability of heritability of the gift because we are talking about the past, I am not saying Caecus will or should have gifted descendants that he will train as apprentice. Second, the likelihood of a line of gifted and trained descendants, if you have close family ties (maybe I should take that one as story flaw), is much increased because of the usually longer life span of magi, i.e. my parens could be my grand-grand-grandfather with no gifted offspring in three generations.

I do agree that the existence of such a dual bloodline would normally be mentioned by canon. However, it could even be unknown to my family. Lost during the centuries since the foundation of the order.

I don't insist on it either, it is not really crucial to the character. So not worth a conflict or argument.

What is the troupes/SGs take on Consequences of blindness for a magus.

Especially on questions like if/how a blind magus can learn from books and how blindness and second sight would interact. I personally like what cunningrat1 has ofered.

The tighter link was what I was meaning - it's a bit more plausible if there are skipped generations between apprentices rather than direct parent to child, as that's starting to get closer to what the Mercere do (albeit from a pool of a single common ancestor rather than in a single line of descent) - but by the same token, it's treading on the toes of a Mercere "thing". I'd drop it.

I think that, in general, Second Sight is problematic here, since there's an implication that it relies on natural sight. Hermetic magic absolutely can substitute for natural sight for ordinary things, but Second Sight is explicitly a non-Hermetic Ability, and therefore wouldn't benefit from Hermetic magic. I do think that, say, Second Touch would be viable, but I think that the Ability is going to have to rely on at least one of the five senses (having the magical equivalent of radar doesn't seem to fit the Mythic Europe paradigm), though a Sixth Sense that just provided a vague tingle could be workable (if less useful than a sense-based Ability).

Also, a character who started Hermetic life blind might have the equivalent of Weak Parens, since his or her education couldn't follow the normal course before learning at least a little Hermetic magic.


Not sure if this implication is true though, besides in the name. Salutor references RoP:M p. 100

Alternatives provided are "Second Hearing", the argument is quite similar, that we just switch the sense being used.

Is that could or should have Weak Parens?

Two questions:

  1. Is the decision final that blindness excludes second sight?
  2. Is Second hearing equivalent to second sight, just a different sense?

I'd prefer second sight, but an equivalent second hearing would probably be ok.

Unless someone presents a new argument, I think Second Sight is right out. Second Hearing could work, though--but maybe at a shorter range.

As for Weak Parens, I'm not sure I'd require, but OTOH it's pretty "cheap" (in terms of long-term impact) as Flaws go.


Besides the references to Second Sight not being tightly coupled to a specific sense, no. Here is another mention of the weak link {or no link at all) of second sight to visual species.

RoP:M p. 105

True. Though the cheapness depends on the pace of a saga.

If Second Sight mentions auditory species in that context, that would imply that other instances involve non-auditory species--but I'm willing to buy that a blind person with Second Sight will lean more on hearing than a sighted person would. For most purposes, the end result is the same--but he's not going to "see" a regio boundary on a hilltop a mile away.


How are people getting on with their character concepts now? Is there anything you need from me / MTKnife?

I am still working on the blind Seeker of House Bonisagus. Might take a bit - should I try to hurry up?

I am still investigating options for mythic blood (including minor focus, effect and personality flaw) that make sense. Bonisagus is one option, still looking into greek mythology for others. Was thinking about Orpheus, Odysseus, Jason and others...
Minor foki I am considering are "raw vis", "arcane connections" or "containers and tunnels", but there is no full picture yet where all pieces are fitting together...

I'd suggest trying to settle on a character concept in the next week?

What is it you're wanting from Mythic Blood? That might help you decide.

I'd suggest against Orpheus unless a strong musical bent and interactions with the Cult of Orpheus are what you want (and note there's one NPC around who's already music-focussed).

On the foci: none of the greek figures seem to have much relation to the foci you're suggesting - I might suggest Music for Orpheus, Travel for Odysseus (although one could argue he wasn't very good at it) and maybe Leadership for Jason (that one's a bit tougher)? In general, though, greek heroes don't seem a good source of the type of vim based focus you seem to be looking for, nor in general for a Bonisagus - they feel more Flambeau-y to me.

I think arcane connections would be rather limited and uninteresting as a focus - note that it wouldn't apply to all spells with arcane connection range, just those actually relating to the connection itself in some way. Given that, you're gathering them, slowing and speeding up their degradation...anything else I'm missing? Similarly, raw vis would help you find vis, but the spells for that are rarely that high level, or in need of that much penetration. Containers and Tunnels is probably more actively useful, and might be good for a spont specialist who can then cast a lot of stuff at short range down their tunnels (along with some nastier high penetration formulaics).

Yeah, I noticed those problems as well... Background and Story are my main reasons for mythic blood. Travel would actually be a great Fokus, but that's not a minor one I suppose...

I started a little writeup on story and motivation/goals to be merged in the published WIP character document here

I think Travel would work as a minor focus so long as it was tightly defined. It's not about just moving anything anywhere; rather it's about journeys, and getting people from A to B.

So things that might come under it:

  • Leap of Homecoming
  • Wind at the Back
  • A non-Mutantum version of The Tireless Flight (pg 102 HoH:TL)
  • A non-Mutantum version of Sense the True Path (pg 102 HoH: TL)

Things that wouldn't come under it:

  • Short range teleports
  • Rise of the Feathery Body
  • Shapeshifting into a horse

On the background: did your family really all have Unaffected by the Gift? That seems unlikely - I'd suggest having his Gift develop late instead (or for him not having realised in his blindness that they weren't exactly what they seemed...)

What about the "Detect regio boundaries." guideline? It allows traveling regio boundaries...

I have to think about the others, some at least will be in very different arts...

Too indirect.