Character Development

Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Base Camp
662

Edited my backstory by highlighting the bits that could use names. I'm a big fan of weaving histories together, so if any players want to make suggestions for how to integrate his backstory into their own, I'm all for it.

The current version of my character sheet has been posted to the Magi Char Sheet thread. I will add the backstory to the entry when it's been picked over.

May I post Leon the Hunter/Linguist/Fish to the Covenant Char thread? I don't really think of Leon as likely to have his own Stories, so he isn't properly a Companion per the rules, but Patrick will probably want him to be treated as a Consortes (or whatever the term may be), with the associated costs to covenant finances.

And not to be too pushy about this subject, but I would really, really like Patrick to enter play sometime soon. I will light-heartedly threaten to make even more tongue-in-cheek grogs until he does.

663

I figured it was Ireland, but wanted to be clear. Viola was raised in nearby Stonehenge (Mercia, to be precise), but that was before Patrick's time. I don't know that I'd want to make Saffron a member of Viola's mystery cult, but perhaps Saffron simply wanted to send him as far away as possible, and given her mater's origins in Thebes Tribunal, she had connections who made her aware of the new covenant here.

Trying to find a non-Story Major Flaw that isn't crippling is difficult, but the limit on the number of Minor Flaws makes it literally impossible to get 10 points without coming up with one (since you need two Major Flaws)--which is a serious hole in the ArM5 system. For any other Tytalus, the Major version of Overconfident or Proud would be a good choice, but I don't think either would work for Patrick; Driven might, but it would involve a change to his story (the end of it, anyway), perhaps based on some need to redeem himself. What happened to Lost Love? That and Magic Addiction were the original Majors, right?

Have you got a copy of the master V/F index (it's a bit out of date, but still includes a lot of the supplements).

Oh...and I will work on the mystery cult soon. Sorry to be out of it, but my wife's advancing pregnancy, though not always taking up a lot of my time, seems to have had the more subtle effect of making it difficult for me to concentrate lately.

Scott

664

If she has a high enough OoH Lore, that's all it really takes. I suppose it is a question of how Machiavellian the meta-plot is going to be. If there will be a lot of interaction with our benefactors in Thebes, then Saffron could be embroiled in any number of machinations involving Theban wizards.

Lost Love is only a Minor Personality Flaw. I originally had Indiscreet as a Major Story, but Salutor said there is a "only one story flaw" rule for this saga. Now that I've developed the backstory more fully, it doesn't really fit anymore.

In some other groups I'm playing with here on the forums, they note the difference between "may not," "cannot," and "should not" in the sidebar discussing Flaw limits. It only says you should not take more than one Story Flaw, and given that Visions is both Story and Supernatural, I would argue that this leaves some wiggle room. My ideal choice would be "Servant of the (Land)," major story flaw from RoP:M pg 50, and picking some natural feature which Ireland and the saga terrain have in common. Forest, being the typical choice in such matters.

Meep! While I wish you and your wife well with the childbirth, I basically ended up running the Phoenix campaign here on the forums because JeanMichelle became a father.

I suppose the simplest solution to the cult would be to make it The Fraternity of Samos, only more secretive than the version in the books. Maybe my direct superiors in the Samos cult have a more martial bent than most of the architects. Maybe the whole "martial application of Numerology" thing is an experiment by my cult contacts. Patrick is sort of disillusioned with them anyway, since his family died.

As far as gameplay goes, right now all we need is the general outline ("Euclidean Warriors!"), a name for the cult, and the names of my contacts in the cult. Any interaction with them for the foreseeable future is going to be about bringing Patrick back into the fold of the cult. Given PbP timelines, I'll be surprised if the game lasts long enough to get beyond that point, anyway.

I mean, when you gave my experimental spell the cosmetic effect of "involves mathematically regular shapes," you were working on his cult involvement, as far as I was concerned.

Oooh! Maybe Saffron or Salamandrus are part of his secret cult and Patrick doesn't know it!

665

While I could bend things for really good ideas, I think in this case that Compassionate will be far more interesting.

Actually, the baby will give my wife something to do, which may give me more time she doesn't want my attention. :slight_smile: In any case, as a professor I'm (sort of) off for the summer.

I think I'll come up with something new--how big do you think it should be, though?

I mean, when you gave my experimental spell the cosmetic effect of "involves mathematically regular shapes," you were working on his cult involvement, as far as I was concerned.
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Exactly.

If they were, I wouldn't tell you. :slight_smile:

Scott

666

Okay, so I probably ought to disclose that I've been tinkering with my character overly much for the last week as an escape from Relationship Drama, and therefore have tweaked it quite a bit. I may very well have gone off the deep end, as some of the character changes I've made struck me as Profoundly Meaningful Metaphors(tm). It seems that I've not been properly documenting all the changes, and even if I had, you probably would have found it all dizzying to keep track of.

Patrick's current Flaw list is as follows:

I already decided to swap "Oversensitive vs Slurs Against the Irish" with "Compassionate" after reading HoH:S (which, incidentally, also Resonated With Profound Implications About My Life(tm) in ways that most assuredly have nothing to do with all the whiskey I've been drinking).

I'm now suggesting that I replace the Restriction - Hands and Feet Uncovered with Servant of the (Land), entirely for the coolness factor of it.

~giggles~ So, this would be your first child, then?

~ducks~

Seriously, though. My work season is heaviest during the summer. I have net-access through my phone, but my messages will be shorter while I'm on the road.

From what I can tell looking at the various HoH books, there are about 100 members of each house, roughly twice that for Mercere and Ex Misc. So, that means the entire Hermetic Order is about 1400 people. So....let's say that Patrick has been in contact with 7-12 other members of the cult, and there are maybe 30-50 members total. Anything bigger than that, and they could arguably form their own House. Anything smaller, and they're not a Cult, they're a book club.

Oh! Or, alternately, there are maybe 20-40 magi who are members, but there is also a much larger mundane component. In which case, some initiation level is going to involve casting stat-increasing Numerological Creo Corpus rituals on worthy followers. And maybe some questions about what they need all these Magical Beast Parts for, anyway...

It'd be cool if we somehow arrange a dichotomy between his Nature-blessed birth (whether or not he takes Servant of the Land) with the mathematically-derived "perfection" of the cult. ~mad scientist voice~ A dichotomy that might, if the dice are willing, eventually lead to a schism in the cult when he discovers the existence of the fractal math! Oh, yes! They all laughed at him at the university, but he'll show them! He'll show them a recursive mathematical formula which would bring Tytalus himself to his very knees! Mu-hahahaha!

~ahem~

If we go with any of that, we could call the cult The Golden Mean or something.

(And while I'm pretty sure that we've already established that I'm the only Reign:The Conqueror fan on this forum, I'll still point out that this all leads right back to the Euclidean Ninja Assassins and their quest to save The Plato-hedron from Alexander, Destroyer of Worlds.)

667

Added my Correspondents and Pen Pals to my Character sheet.

668

File this one under "sleep deprivation breeds strange thoughts."

Out of curiosity, how big of an enchantment would it be to turn a wagon into a chest?

The material and size table lists "boat, wagon, human body, small room" as size "huge."
The next size down, "large," includes shields.
"Medium" is about the size of a pair of boots.

A covered wagon is going to be made out of wood and leather, so that's base 2, x5 for size = 10 (eg, MT of 5 required).

According to Beast of Miniscule Proportions, it is a MuAn, base 4, effect to reduce the size of a beast by 2. +1 Concentration, +5 item maintains concentration....

So, by this logic, could I enchant a wagon with a MuAn(He) 10 effect to shrink to a box the size of a pair of boots?

Would that include all the stuff inside it?

Cuz, if so, I may ditch my small gold pendant for a mobile sanctum.

Edit: Nevermind. I realized that the target would have to be Structure, not Individual. Still. It's a goal for the future :slight_smile:

669

Well, I suppose I could go for that--the Restriction is kind of boring.

Yes...but you'd really have to know my wife. Seriously, you have no idea. She gets upset any time I'm alone in my office, partly out of jealously, partly because she has trouble entertaining herself.

Most cults are probably smaller than that--otherwise there wouldn't be very many of them--but a few could be that big. I think we can manage it even without the fractals, though. :slight_smile:

Scott

670

Suggestions on which type of land? I am not at all familiar with the geography of the setting.

This is the very relationship drama that I'm dealing with right now. Is your wife an only child?

Out of curiosity, how big do you think the average cult is in this game?

671

While it's not in the standard list, "river delta" would work very well--think river banks, streams, and marshes.

No...it's a different kind of issue. :slight_smile:

Probably a dozen to two dozen at most. Viola's for example has 6 or 7 members at last count.

Scott

672

Oooh! I like it!

I guess what I should have said was that I assumed this was a "medium-to-large" cult, and let you tell me how big that may or may not have been. Large enough to get him more than a handful of clients looking for big game captures.

673

OK, I can work with that.

Scott

674

Wolf-ish sigil effects no longer make sense for Patrick. What sort of predators exist in a river delta?

675

Fishing birds, maybe? There are ask sorts of small predators.

Scott

676

And lo, it came to pass that the Alpha SG proclaimed that Patrick was a member of the Cult of Euclid.

I've based the cult on both Euclid's writings and three stories about him, all three of which are almost certainly not true, and one of which is preposterous (as it places him as a contemporary of Abraham):

library.thinkquest.org/22494/stories/Euclid.htm

encyclopediaoffreemasonry.com/e/ ... legend-of/

The Euclideans are a middle-sized cult, numbering about 30. Their belief system is egalitarian, or more accurately, meritocratic (an anachronistic concept, I know), even by Hermetic standards. They value learning for its own sake, but, as geometers first and foremost, they recognize the obvious practical implications of their knowledge. Given their Greek roots, they're most numerous in the Tribunal of Thebes, but the Fourth Crusade, which saw some practical application of the cult's mysteries in the defense of Theban covenants (and, it's rumored, even of Constantinople itself) sparked interest in the Roman Tribunal as well. However, they have adherents throughout the lands of the Order.

The Cult initiates Hermetic Geometry first, and then Hermetic Numereology, an order opposite from that of the Fraternity of Samos [but assume the initiations are similar, unless they don't suit you, amul]. It's fairly well known that the Euclideans' inner mysteries include Hermetic Architecture, but beyond that, little is known to outsiders, or even to lower-level initiates of the cult itself--given their belief in knowledge of its own sake, the Euclideans prefer not to tempt with the promise of power, but to let an initiate's own hunger for learning drive him down his path.

How does that sound?

Scott

677

Sounds fine, for what little detail you've given. I suppose I shall have to merit the rest by his actions in-saga. ~grin~

One minor kvetch: I believe that, by the RAW, Geometry requires Numerology, but thankfully my character history doesn't need to change either way. If you want to rule they have some way of doing it the other way around, that's fine by me.

Three questions:

  1. How secret of a secret society are they? Do I still take my Vow:Secrecy to learn Numerology? Or do you want me to take some other script-flaw?
  2. Does the Cult of Samos exist in this saga? How secret are they? If so, how do we Euclideans feel about them?
  3. What do I need to do to advance to the next level, both mechanically and rp-wise? For the Samos cult, I would need to give them my signature, a permanent arcane connection, and a nativity horoscope, to gain Planetary Magic. Or you could just tell me that I don't know, since Patrick was on the outs with his cult for a while and has only came back to the fold 3 years ago or so.
678

Yes, exactly--in fact, I even erased a detail I had started to type. :slight_smile: I thought it would be more fun that way, as a true mystery.

The one detail I will add is that the mystagogue who initiated Patrick was another Tytalus, named (weirdly for a Tytalus, in a Latin tribunal no less) Sophos. At this point, Patrick has never met another member of the cult in person, as far as he knows. He does recall a couple of names of members in the Thebes Tribunal, but given the suddenness of his journey, his mentor wasn't able to prepare him for the trip; however, by this point Sophos should have gotten word, and Patrick fully expects to receive correspondence from him soon, including introductions to nearby members.

I missed that, but yes, mechanically it doesn't pose a problem, and teaching Geometry first better fits a Cult of Euclid.

Good catch. We can do it that way if you want, but I would prefer that the cult not be a true secret: the Euclideans don't advertise their powers, and they do believe in disseminating learning, and so they make themselves known. Indeed, though they're selective in inviting magi to join, they're generous with their knowledge of mathematics. Therefore, a Vow to teach geometry (Artes Liberales) would work, or perhaps something else. At this point in Patrick's progress through the mystery, the Vow would have taken the form of learning Teaching, though later he'd be called on actually to teach on occasion (this would though mean reallocating a few XP's to that Ability).

Yes, the Fraternity of Samos exists, essentially as it's presented in The Mysteries, meaning it's not secret. The two cults don't work at cross purposes, but ascetics of the Fraternity find the Euclideans to be rather grubby, while the Euclideans find the members of the Fraternity to be lacking connection to the real world
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Sophos has told Patrick that he'll learn this when he's ready. In the meantime, he should keep studying: Artes Liberales, obviously, but Teaching and perhaps Philosophiae would also be appropriate.

Scott

679

I completely agree :slight_smile:

As currently written, Patrick's backstory includes meeting a 2nd member of his cult. While meeting this "higher up," his family and covenant were destroyed, and Patrick suspects that it was some enemy of the cult that did this (or maybe it was the cult themselves, though that seems less plausible). This 2nd cult member is also one of his "correspondents," but I can come up with somebody else for that, easily enough.

This detail could be edited or left as is, but we should have the same vision of his history, either way.

I've reallocated 15 XP from Animal Ken to Teaching. This was actually adventure XP shortly after joining the 1st circle of the cult. Also updated my character sheet here on the forum to include this, the Vow: Teach Geometry flaw, and different sigils -- his casting sigil is now reminiscent of the river delta which gave him life and power.

To do any more than the 15 xp would require a lot of time and energy, and I think for very little gain. Given his character history, he's probably come very close to the bare minimum needed to honor his Vow, but will try to be more earnest about it now that the game starts.

Is that alright?

Cool! Thanks for coming up with this stuff. I really appreciate the effort, and am looking forward to it.

680

So I don't have to dig through old posts: are you saying you want that guy to be Sophos, or are you saying you already had someone by another name? Either way is fine (the guy doesn't have to be named "Sophos").

Yes, that's good.

Scott

681

Okay, for completeness, here is a full list of NPCs associated with Patrick:

Cult of Euclid
Note: Patrick’s cult identification formula is abbreviated as “P=6”

Edward Longshanks the 4th, Magister in Arbitus, Oxford. Patrick’s first contact with the cult, the mundane scholar sent him a letter that changed the very course of his life. It has never been clear to Patrick why the scholar chose him, or how he even knew of Patrick. (corresponded thus far in Philosophiae, Cult Lore)

Sophos, (name suggested by Scott) Patrick’s first magi contact within the cult. From their correspondence, Patrick suspects the magus is a Tremere. He initiated Patrick into the 1st and 2nd circle of the cult. (corresponded thus far in Aquam, Auram, Ignem, Terram, CoH, Magic Theory, Cult Lore, OoH Lore)

“P=2” Patrick knows nothing about this magus other than that he is a master of Rego Animal, and an “inner circle” member of the cult. They met in person once, secreted in deep cowled cloaks and Tytalan disguise magic, and when Patrick returned home from that meeting, his life had burnt to the ground. (corresponded thus far in Rego, Animal, Cult Lore.)

Captain Federovski Russian captain of a merchant ship which plies the Black Sea, he is also a mundane member of the Cult of Euclid, and serves to ferry secret messages between them. According to dockside rumor, his ship, the Lemma, recently transported a cargo hold full of lepers to found a new leper colony at the ruins of Tanais.

Correspondents / Pen Pals

Peremis Tytalii of Five Trees Covenant, Ireland. What can be said of your parens with any certainty? Can you ever truly see them as anything but she who once was your mistress? Will she ever see you as anything but the pupil you were? Does it affect your love for each other one whit, if you can’t? (corresponded thus far in Rego, Perdo, Corpus, Imaginem, Magic Lore, Concentration.)

Certioari, fillia of a prominent Queasitor of Iberia, now a Queasitor of The Thebes Tribunal. The young Guernicus passed her Gauntlet five years after Patrick did, she initially approached Patrick because he was the first magus she had met (as a journeyman) who had a family and still acted like he loved them. She was worried about the obligations of Queasitorial duty getting in the way of finding a husband, and their early letters spoke much about child-rearing in a covenant. They lost touch during Patrick’s prolonged grief, but have recently begun corresponding again. Time has hardened both of them, and it is evident in their letters. (corresponded thus far in Intellego, Mentem, CoH. )

Other NPC and places

Saffron of Merinita, and
Salamandrus of Flambeau, both were apprenticed at Five Trees Covenant at the same time as Patrick, and were subject to his bullying. It is clear that they have not forgiven him for his childhood excesses.

(The unnamed 4th child who was almost apprenticed at Five Trees)

Maeve, Patrick's wife, deceased. Appears to him in visions.
Leah The firstborn of Patrick's seven dead children. Deceased, but appears to him in visions. She was 7 when she died,

Laguna Sententia. The covenant where Patrick live with his wife and family. Destroyed by person or persons unknown.

Metapontium Covenant near Hamburg, filled with Tytalli members of the Fraternity of Samos, who worked with Patrick to defeat a diabolist. Leon's original home and birthplace, though he doesn't remember it.