Character Development

[Salutor]

@Arya

@Salutor

Arya,

I'm probably being dense here, but how are you getting your lab total of 72 for familiar bond of the Caladrius on Portia's sheet in the Magi thread? I make it at most (if you bound/rebound it right before entering play):

27 (Creo) + 12 (vim) + 5 (Int) + 10 (MT) + 5 (Aura) = 59

Am I missing something (bearing in mind that Verditius mysteries don't affect familiars)?

Experimentation. I don't know where the scrap of paper is that I wrote it all down on, I haven't unpacked much. But in addition to the experimentation die and the extra risk modifier from original research, there's also +2 lab general quality and +6 from Inventive Genius.

It should be 2 lower now because in modifying the character afterwards I dropped Vim from 14 to 12.

Right, I was being dense.

[MTKnife]

@callen

@MTKnife

Yes, it says explicitly that you get one.

I believe you, but I still can't find it. Anyway, I know now. If you know where that line is, I'd love to know.

Oops, sorry, you were right--it's only when you enchant it or prepare it for enchantment.

Scott

[callen]

Although I have worked out the nuts and bolts of 14 years worth of seasons, I haven't written them up well enough yet to post. They're still heavily scralled notes and numbers. But, here's Tasia 14 years after apprenticeship. Hopefully everyone finds this interesting. I still need to deciding on casting and voting sigils and a couple other little things, but I'm closing in on finishing this treatise.

[size=200]Quaesitor Hoplite Tasia (Anastasia, Αναστασια) of Guernicas[/size]

Filia Vasile of Guernicas, from the Transylvanian Tribunal

Personality

Tasia is a maga of House Guernicas and the Terrae Cult through and through. She is very optimistic, which shows up strongly in her belief that the ends justify the means. That the Peripheral Code rulings tend to agree with this philosophy strengthens her resolve in it. Her optimism also applies to her view of the Order of Hermes: the Order is the great culmination of work of all magi and furthering it can only improve things. An ideal state can be brought about by ensuring the Order gains supremacy over the world. To this end she does her work as a Quaesitor and a Hoplite, blinded to problems of the Order, but not of its members.

Having grown up without the problems normally associated with the Gift, Tasia is unusually used to human contact for a maga. She enjoys socializing with both magi and mundanes. A large part of her time with them is focused on learning what’s going on and keeping up on gossip, even though she doesn’t like to spread gossip herself. Without her Gentle Gift she figures her nosiness would be taken a lot worse. As she is a maga with standing and is both personable and attractive, her nosiness does not come across poorly. And frequently it has helped with her investigations.

Appearance

Tasia is a petite, gorgeous, young Greek. Her slender frame rises to only 5’2”, making her appear less dangerous than she truly is. Her long, light brown hair is commonly worn loose, falling in gentle waves about her shoulders, framing her delicate face. Due to a Twilight experience her hair does not move with the wind. When restricted by social circumstances Tasia readily conforms and wears her hair up. Her big, brown eyes carry her warmth and inquisitiveness with them.

Though she seems to possess an extraordinarily large number of outfits, Tasia has but one thing she wears: a suit of bronze mail she crafted herself and bonded as her talisman. However, the suit is enchanted to change shape, material, and color as she desires. As a result she always seems to be dressed appropriately to the circumstances, though the highest qualities are still beyond her.

Reputation

Tasia is well known as a young Quaesitor and somewhat known as a Hoplite. Her linguistic talent is widely known among the Quaesitors and is fairly well known more broadly as it has helped her in a number of investigations, especially combined with her Gentle Gift. Frequently she will be the Quaesitor brought in to investigate mundanes, especially when an uncommon language is being used heavily. Tasia’s defensive talents have garnered her some accolades, too. Though she is not one of the more powerful offensively, her defenses tend to make up for it. Recently she has earned the title of Hoplite in addition to Quaesitor.

Background

Tasia was born the daughter of a Greek bronzeworker in 1186. Her life began rather unassumingly. However, as she grew into her beauty and as her talent for languages matured she started catching the eyes of future suitors. While a normal Gift would have gotten in the way and have indicated her talent to magi, she went unnoticed for a while.

While Vasile of Guernicas was searching for a potential apprentice, seeking out those with the Gift’s oddness, he picked up a rumor about a girl who could speak a remarkable number of languages. Given the dearth of rumors he’d heard, he decided to investigate. To his surprise, not only did the girl have the rumored talent, but she was also Gentle Gifted. Vasile decided against the typical course of just spiriting off a Gifted child because too many knew of her and would miss her. Instead he posed as a wealthy merchant and Tasia’s first suitor. Vasile lavished (to their minds) gifts upon the family and used Mentem magic to help win them over. Thus Vasile was able to take Tasia away with everyone believing she had been married off and was no longer available. Thus began Tasia’s apprenticeship.

Vasile brought Tasia to his covenant in the Transylvanian Tribunal, not too far from the border with the Constantinople Tribunal. He taught her first and foremost to be a student of Bonisagus, since he believes one should not be a Quaesitor without being devoted to Bonisagus’s work. That he emphasis on Magic Theory made Tasia a better assistant in the lab was not lost on him, though. Meanwhile he also taught her of the Code and of numerous parts of the Order, including inducting her into the Terrae Cult.

Since her gauntlet (A crime to be solved: that her voting sigil had been stolen.) Tasia has mixed her time between working as a Quaesitor, working for the Terrae Cult, studying, and working in the laboratory. Shortly after her gauntlet she found a rock spirit in the mountains that caused repeated rock slides. She bargained with it as best she could, offering more mobility and more ability to toss things around and drop things. Its interest piqued by the endless possibilities of new crashes, Tasia bound it to herself using both a technique picked from a tome taken from a sorcerer she had slain and a technique picked up from the Terrae Cult. Now the two are truly constant companions. As Tasia’s and Vrahos’s abilities have grown Tasia has looked tried to provide more interesting things for Vrahos to smash while she keeps them safe. As a result she has recently become a Quaesitor Hoplite.

The Quaesitors are interested in what happened to the expeditionary covenant that was destroyed so quickly after it was settled. Knowing that the peoples further east speak less civilized languages and that clearly there could be some danger Tasia was considered. That the Terrae Cult is also interested in what happened to the local aura brought more votes to sending her. Thus House Guernicas chose to send Tasia as their emissary on this latest expedition, and Tasia was happy to accept.

Characteristics
[table][tr][td]Int +2[/td][td]Per +3[/td][td]Str -3[/td][td]Sta +1[/td][td]Pre +2[/td][td]Com +2[/td][td]Dex 0[/td][td]Qik 0[/td][/tr][/table]
Age & Confidence
[table][tr][td]Age: 40[/td][td]Apparent Age: 22[/td][td]Decrepitude: 0[/td][/td][td]Confidence: 1 (3)[/td][/tr][/table]
Warping
[table][tr][td]Warping: 2 [28][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Twilight scars:[/td][td]Tasia’s hair does not move due to wind.[/td][/tr][/table]
Chronology
[table][tr][td]Current Season: Summer 1226 AD[/td][td]Born: 1186 AD[/td][td]Apprenticed: 1197 AD[/td][td]Gauntlet: 1212 AD[/td][td]Longevity: (see familiar)[/td][/tr][/table]
Personality
[table][tr][td]Busybody +3[/td][td]Loyal (Vrahos) +3[/td][td]Optimistic +5[/td][td](Steadfast +1)[/td][/tr][/table]
Reputation
[table][td]Hoplite +1[/td][td]Linguist +2[/td][td]Quaesitor +5[/td][tr][/tr][/table]
Virtues & Flaws
[table][tr][td]Virtues[/td][td]Flaws[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Book Learner +1[/td][td]Busybody -1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cautious w/ Finesse +1[/td][td]Cabal Legacy: Terrae Cult -1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Faerie Blood: Padfoot +1[/td][td]Deficient Auram [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Faerie Speech +1[/td][td]No Sense of Direction[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Faerie Sympathy: Protection +1[/td][td]Optimistic -3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Gentle Gift +3[/td][td]Study Requirement -3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]The Gift[/td][td]Small Frame -1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hermetic Maga[/td][td]Traditional Ward: Iron -1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hermetic Prestige[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Minor Magical Focus: Terram Magic Might Beings +1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Quiet Magic x2 *[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spirit Familiar [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Venus’s Blessing +1[/td][td][i] From Terrae Cult initiations.[/i][/td][/tr][/table]
Abilities
[table][tr][td]Name[/td][td]Score[/td][td]Leftover xp[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Artes Liberales (Ceremonial Magic)[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][td]Alphabets: Greek, Latin[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Athletics (Dancing)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Awareness (Searching)[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Brawl (Dodging)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Carouse (Making Friends)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Charm (Seduction)[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Code of Hermes (Peripheral Code)[/td][td]3[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Concentration (Spell Concentration)[/td][td]1[/td][td]1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Craft: Bronzeworker (Household Items)[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Craft: Clothier (Gowns)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Etiquette (Order of Hermes)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Faerie Lore (Faerie Wizards)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Finesse (Invested Effects)[/td][td]2[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Folk Ken (Men)[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Guile (Feigning Ignorance)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Infernal Lore (Diabolists)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Intrigue (Gossip)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Living Language: Greek (Native, Writing)[/td][td]5[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Living Language: Latin (Reading)[/td][td]3[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magic Lore (Terram Magic Might Beings)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magic Theory (Terram Magic Might Beings)[/td][td]5[/td][td]8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mystery Cult Lore: Terrae Cult (Initiating Others)[/td][td]2[/td][td]9[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Organization Lore: Order of Hermes (House Guernicas)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Parma Magica (Certamen)[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Penetration (Acute Sense)[/td][td]1[/td][td]1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spell Mastery: The Discerning Eye (Acute Sense)[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][td]Options: Acute Sense x2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spell Mastery: The Phantom Bronzeworker (Precise Casting)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][td]Options: Precise Casting x2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spell Mastery: Wizard’s Leap (Safety)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][td]Options: Fast Casting[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stealth (Urban Areas)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Swim (Staying Afloat)[/td][td]1[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Teaching (Apprentices)[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][/tr][/table]
Non-Abilities that advance as Abilities
[table][tr][td]Name[/td][td]Score[/td][td]Leftover xp[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Faerie Speech[/td][td]5[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Faerie Sympathy: Protection[/td][td]8[/td][td]24[/td][/tr][/table]
Magical Arts
[table][tr][td]Art[/td][td]Score[/td][td]Leftover xp[/td][td][/td][td]Art[/td][td]Score[/td][td]Leftover xp[/td][td][/td][td]Art[/td][td]Score[/td][td]Leftover xp[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Creo[/td][td]5[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Animal[/td][td]6[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Ignem[/td][td]0[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Intellego[/td][td]10[/td][td]4[/td][td][/td][td]Aquam[/td][td]0[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Imaginem[/td][td]6[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Muto[/td][td]5[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Auram[/td][td]0[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Mentem[/td][td]5[/td][td]4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Perdo[/td][td]5[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Corpus[/td][td]6[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Terram[/td][td]6[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rego[/td][td]10[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Herbam[/td][td]5[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Vim[/td][td]10[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Binding[/td][td]0[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Summoning (Terrae Cult)[/td][td]0[/td][td][/td][/table]
Spells

• Whispering Winds [InAu15] +6 or +5
• Confound the Hound (from the Spells Wiki) [PeAu5] +3 or +2
• Dead Man’s Eyes [InCo(Im)15] +23 or +21
• Whispers Through the Black Gate [InCo(Me)15] +16 or +14
• The Whole from the Part [InCo20] +17 or +15
• Wizard’s Leap [ReCo15] +22 or +20 (requisites could lower this)
• Seven-League Stride [ReCo30] +21 or +19 (requisites could lower this)
• Leap of Homecoming [ReCo35] +21 or +19 (requisites could lower this)
• The Discerning Eye [InIm40] +25 or +23
• Catching the Eye [CrMe15] +11 or +9
• The Good Witness [CrMe25] +11 or +9
• Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie [InMe20] +22 or +20
• Posing the Silent Question [InMe20] +22 or +20
• The Call to Slumber [ReMe10] +16 or +14
• Aura of Rightful Authority [ReMe20] +22 or +20
• Swords to Ploughshares (see below) [ReTe10] +17 or +15
• The Phantom Bronzeworker [ReTe20] +18 or +16
• Demon’s Eternal Oblivion [PeVi10] +26 or +24

New Spells

Swords to Ploughshares
ReTe10
R: Sight, D: Momentary, T: Individual
The spell takes apart an object, leaving the base materials in a pile, potentially for later use. Many pieces will have been straightened, flattened, or similar in the process. Organizing the pieces requires a Finesse roll. Casting requisites may be required.
(Base 2, +2 metal, +1 Touch, +1 complexity)

Other Magic

• Casting sigil: ?
• Certamen style: Hoplomachus

Combat

[table][tr][td]Weapon[/td][td]Init[/td][td]Atk[/td][td]Dfn[/td][td]Dam[/td][td]Load[/td][td]Range[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Dodge[/td][td]+0[/td][td][/td][td]+2 or +9[/td][td][/td][td]0[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Punch[/td][td]+0[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+1[/td][td]-3[/td][td]0[/td][td]Melee[/td][/tr][/table]
Soak

• Clothing: 14 + Form bonuses Soak
• Bronze armor: base armor + quality (stress roll: <5: +1, 5-7: +2, 8-10: +3, >10: +4) +13 + Form bonuses
• Form bonuses: +0 (Aq, Au, Ig), +1 (He, Me), +2 (An, Co, Im, Te, Vi)

Magic Resistance
[table][tr][td]Animal: 56[/td][td]Auram: 50[/td][td]Herbam: 55[/td][td]Imaginem: 56[/td][td]Terram: 56[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Aquam: 50[/td][td]Corpus: 56[/td][td]Ignem: 50[/td][td]Mentem: 55[/td][td]Vim: 60[/td][/tr][/table]
[size=150]Talisman[/size]

Tasia’s talisman is an incredibly well crafted suit of bronze chainmail. Although her skill only allowed her to make it Excellent +4, it is built more perfectly than can be managed by human means (97 Finesse roll total). It has also had its protective qualities brought out as a Verditius Item of Quality. The coif is built into the suit, and the edge of the coif is adorned by several gems and stones in silver settings: agate, basalt, jade, magnetite, marble, opal, red coral, and star ruby. However, this appearance is rarely seen; Tasia can thoroughly change the shape, materials, textures, and colors of the suit and does so on a regular basis. It is the only thing she wears.

Attunements

• Affect Wearer’s Sight +6
• Eyes +6
• Travel +4
• vs. Demons +10

Powers

• Hardness of Adamantine / Doublet of Impenetrable Silk (all at +3 Soak) [Base 15 +2(Sun) +3lvl(environmental trigger) +1lvl(2/day) = MuTe(An,He)29]
• Shapeshifting into any sort of clothing or armor. A Perception+Finesse roll determines the quality of the product. [Base 4 +1(Concentration) +2(metal) +3(complexity) +5lvl(devices maintains) +3(environmental trigger) +1(2/day) = MuTe(An,He,Im)39]
• Hauberk of Sublime Lightness (Load 0, 1, or 2 depending on the shape’s bulk) [Base 15 +2(Sun) +3lvl(environmental trigger) +1lvl(2/day) = PeTe29]

Protection & Load

• As clothing: +10 Soak, 0 Load.
• As bronze armor: ?(steel equivalent) -1 (bronze) +?(quality) +10 Soak, 2 Load.

[size=150] βράχος (Vrahos; vrah-hoss) – Familiar Spirit of Terram[/size]

Magic Might: 3 (Terram)

Characteristics
[table][tr][td]Int +2[/td][td]Per +5[/td][td]Str +1[/td][td]Sta +2[/td][td]Pre 0[/td][td]Com 0[/td][td]Dex 0[/td][td]Qik 0[/td][/tr][/table]
Personality
[table][tr][td]Loyal (Tasia) +3[/td][td]Rock Spirit* +3[/td][td]Steadfast +1[/td][/tr][/table]
Virtues, Qualities, Flaws, & Inferiorities
[table][tr][td]Virtues & Qualities[/td][td]Flaws & Inferiorities[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Affinity w/ Magic Theory[/td][td]Limited Movement -1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Focus Power: Telekinesis (to lvl 23, 1-5 pts, +7 Init)[/td][td]Magical Air*[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Improved Powers x11 (2/10 of 12) +2, 9**[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Independent Study **[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inventive Genius **[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magical Spirit[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]No Fatigue *[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Personal Power: Sight without Sight [0 pts, constant] +1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Puissant Finesse *[/td][td] From Magical Spirit.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Puissant Magic Theory [/td][td] From transformation.[/td][/tr][/table]
Abilities
[table][tr][td]Name[/td][td]Score[/td][td]Leftover xp[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Artes Liberales (Alphabets)[/td][td]1[/td][td]6[/td][td]Alphabets: Greek, Latin[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Awareness (Rocks/Stones)[/td][td]2[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Concentration (Telekinesis)[/td][td]4[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Finesse (Telekinesis)[/td][td]10+2[/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Living Language: Greek (Writing)[/td][td]5[/td][td]n/a[/td][td]from Tasia[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Living Language: Latin (Reading)[/td][td]3[/td][td]n/a[/td][td]from Tasia[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magic Theory (Assisting in the Lab)[/td][td]7+2[/td][td]21[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Penetration (Telekinesis)[/td][td]3[/td][td][/td][/tr][/table]
Powers

Sight without Sight
R: Per, D: constant, T: Vision
This allows the spirit to see anything nearby even if blocked from direct sight, such as by a pile of rocks on top of it. Essentially built as seeing from the perspective of what it can see.
InIm20 (base 1, +2 Sun, +4 Vision, +1 constant)

Telekinesis
Roughly as Ghost Touch (Anything may be moved around, the cost depending on the size of the thing or the speed being used.) but 5 levels lower in power because it affects nearby objects. Normal propelled attacks require no attack roll but must penetrate. Perception+Finesse rolls are required to bypass magic resistance.

Familiar Bond

Bond Score: InVi60
[table][tr][td]Hermes Cord 2 [15][/td][td]Isis Cord 2 [15][/td][td]Hekate Cord 3 [30][/td][/tr][/table]
Powers

• Attentive Perception (Spells Wiki) on Tasia [Base 1 +1(Touch) +3(Moon) +0(1/day) = InIm5]
• Eyes of the Owl (Spells Wiki) on Tasia [Base 15 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +5lvl(24/day) = InIm35]
• Aura of Beguiling Appearance on Tasia [Base 3 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +2lvl(3/day) = MuIm12]
• Aura of Childlike Innocence on Tasia [Base3 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +2lvl(3/day) = MuIm12]
• Aura of Ennobled Presence on Tasia [Base 3 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +2lvl(3/day) = MuIm12]
• Hiding in Plain Sight w/3 senses (sight, hearing, smell) for -6 to observers’ Perception rolls on Tasia [Base 3 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +2lvl(3/day) = MuIm12]
• Ward Against Metal on Tasia [Base 5 +1(Touch) +3(Moon) +2(metal) +1 (enchanted metal, too) = ReTe40]
• Magic Might version of Fanning the Infernal Flames on Vrahos for 10 pts [CrVi4+1(Touch)+2(Sun)+10lvl(unlimited)=CrVi25]

Binding Bond

• Vrahos can see, hear, and feel through Tasia.
• Vrahos can spend a Might Point to speak into Tasia’s mind.
• Vrahos cannot be detected.
• Vrahos can use Tasia’s body when she is unconscious or dead.
• Tasia can use Vrahos’s magic resistance.
• Tasia gains limited Affinities.
• Tasia can learn to use Vrahos’s powers.
• Tasia doesn’t age.
• Tasia gains one warping point each year.
• Tasia gains Vrahos’s personality traits.

[callen]

I'll get some stuff posted on the faerie soon.

Chris

[Salutor]

Thoughts on a first read through of Talia:

@callen

Magic Resistance
Animal: 56 Auram: 50 Herbam: 55 Imaginem: 56 Terram: 56
Aquam: 50 Corpus: 56 Ignem: 50 Mentem: 55 Vim: 60

Your magic resistance is wrong, I think. It should be Parma (2) x 5 + Form bonus = 10 + form bonus, rather than 50 + form bonus.

Edit: Ah, just worked out what's going on here - you're adding your sympathy trait of +8 to get an effective Parma Magica ability of +10, aren't you? I know they rules specify it adds to "non-supernatural" abilities, and Parma Magica is technically an arcane ability rather than a supernatural ability, but I'm a bit dubious. Also, isn't +8 higher than you're allowed? You've only taken faerie sympathy as a minor virtue, so you've got a cap of 1 + warping score (2) = 3.

This'll probably slightly modify some of the maths I did below on lab totals slightly.

Soak

* Clothing: 14 + Form bonuses Soak
* Bronze armor: base armor + quality (stress roll: <5: +1, 5-7: +2, 8-10: +3, >10: +4) +13 + Form bonuses
* Form bonuses: +0 (Aq, Au, Ig), +1 (He, Me), +2 (An, Co, Im, Te, Vi) 

[...]

* Hardness of Adamantine / Doublet of Impenetrable Silk (all at +3 Soak) [Base 15 +2(Sun) +3lvl(environmental trigger) +1lvl(2/day) = MuTe(An,He)29]
* Shapeshifting into any sort of clothing or armor. A Perception+Finesse roll determines the quality of the product. [Base 4 +1(Concentration) +2(metal) +3(complexity) +5lvl(devices maintains) +3(environmental trigger) +1(2/day) = MuTe(An,He,Im)39]
* Hauberk of Sublime Lightness (Load 0, 1, or 2 depending on the shape’s bulk) [Base 15 +2(Sun) +3lvl(environmental trigger) +1lvl(2/day) = PeTe29]

Protection & Load

* As clothing: +10 Soak, 0 Load.
* As bronze armor: ?(steel equivalent) -1 (bronze) +?(quality) +10 Soak, 2 Load.

• The enchantments actually change the material the armour is made of rather than merely its appearence, correct? In the case of, for example, a silk doublet, you'd get the impenetrable silk +3, and possibly the +4 quality roll (I'm really not sure there), and then +1 from stamina, and then +3 from the Hekate cord, for either +7 or +11.
• Do you have the arts to enchant these? I make your Muto Terram lab total: Muto (5) + Min(Terram, Animal, Herbam, Imaginem) (5) + Int +2 + MT (5) + Aura (5?) + Spirit's intelligence (+2) + Spirit's Magic Theory (+10) + Spirit's Inventive Genius (+3) + talisman (+5) = 42. Okay, You can. I have to admit I'm slightly surprised. Lab familiars are really quite powerful, aren't they? (Although I'm slightly dubious about it having Inventive Genius.) I note, though, that at only 3 points above the required level, it's still going to take you 13 seasons to instill the effect (you may well have already allowed for that, but it seems like a waste of time you could spend raising your Arts scores and then doing it a lot more efficiently). You wouldn't have been able to use somebody else's lab text due, if nothing else, to it being a talisman.
• The above sum probably also answers what was going to be a later question as to whether you were capable of learning all your spells - you can probably get lab texts for them.

The coif is built into the suit, and the edge of the coif is adorned by several gems and stones in silver settings: agate, basalt, jade, magnetite, marble, opal, red coral, and star ruby.

A compound item isn't allowed to contain more components than your magic theory score (pg 97).

βράχος (Vrahos; vrah-hoss) – Familiar Spirit of Terram

Magic Might: 3 (Terram)

Characteristics
Int +2 Per +5 Str +1 Sta +2 Pre 0 Com 0 Dex 0 Qik 0

I could have sworn you'd posted the spirit's stats somewhere before, but I can't see it on a quick look back through the last few pages. Anyway, apologies if I should have said this ages ago:

• The Mysteries:RE and RoP:M seem to be inconsistent on the characteristics your familiar can have. According to TM:RE, the characteristics of a spirit familiar are only Intelligence, Perception and Communication, and you have Might/5 pyramid points to start with rather than the standard 7. According to RoP:M, it should have 7 points on a base score of 0 (and its characteristics should make sense for a rock). Perception +5 therefore seems a little odd.

Powers

* Attentive Perception (Spells Wiki) on Tasia [Base 1 +1(Touch) +3(Moon) +0(1/day) = InIm5]
* Eyes of the Owl (Spells Wiki) on Tasia [Base 15 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +5lvl(24/day) = InIm35]
* Aura of Beguiling Appearance on Tasia [Base 3 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +2lvl(3/day) = MuIm12]
* Aura of Childlike Innocence on Tasia [Base3 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +2lvl(3/day) = MuIm12]
* Aura of Ennobled Presence on Tasia [Base 3 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +2lvl(3/day) = MuIm12]
* Hiding in Plain Sight w/3 senses (sight, hearing, smell) for -6 to observers’ Perception rolls on Tasia [Base 3 +1(Touch) +1(Concentration) +5lvl(bond maintains) +2lvl(3/day) = MuIm12]
* Ward Against Metal on Tasia [Base 5 +1(Touch) +3(Moon) +2(metal) +1 (enchanted metal, too) = ReTe40]
* Magic Might version of Fanning the Infernal Flames on Vrahos for 10 pts [CrVi4+1(Touch)+2(Sun)+10lvl(unlimited)=CrVi25]

• How're you getting the bond score of 60? I make it In (10) + Vim (10) + mMF (10) + Aura (5) + Int (2) + MT (6) = 43.
• With this many powers, Tasia and Vrahos musta have taken on a lot of properties of each other (I'm planning something similar with Alcimus, admittedly).
• You want an enchantment that gives you -3 to concentration rolls on for a month at a time? Similarly, a spell that makes you unable to touch metal for the same duration? (If you wanted to cast a spell at touch range on it, for example - or wear your armour. Or have you limited it to only apply to iron?) Concentration duration with the bond maintaining concentration would seem a better way of doing it.
• Similar comment on the Ward Against Metal as the talisman enchantment - you can just about enchant it, but it'll take you ages I make your relevant lab total Rego (10) + Terram (6) + mMF (6) + Int (+2) + MT (6) + Aura (5?) + Spirit's intelligence (+2) + Spirit's Magic Theory (+10) + Spirit's Inventive Genius (+3) = 50, so it'll have taken you 4 seasons to create. Surprisingly, the focus doesn't actually help all that much.
• What does Fanning the Infernal Flames do?

What's the Binding Bond? Is it something from a book I don't have?

[callen]

Thanks for looking it over so carefully!!! I do appreciate it. I made a bunch of errors earlier and had to keep catching them. You caught a few that slipped by. I realize I should have said I'd built the lab up to +1 General, +3 Items, +3 Familiar. Sorry - very bad on my part not to mention that.

@Salutor

Also, isn't +8 higher than you're allowed? You've only taken faerie sympathy as a minor virtue, so you've got a cap of 1 + warping score (2) = 3.

Actually, that's not really the cap. First, your calculations should be 1+1+2=4. But that's still not the cap. Technically, I really could have made it exorbitantly high. I think I could get it over a 10 in a week. But that's why I established a point towards which I would work on the armor and then counted. With dice subtracted on potential botches, gaining warping points using Finesse with a specialty of Protection is nearly impossible (not so with other Abilities, though), but rolling 1's still happens. I also decided not to take exposure and not to take the free virtues available for the length of time after apprenticeship. I figured I'd profited enough already.

@Salutor

The enchantments actually change the material the armour is made of rather than merely its appearence, correct? In the case of, for example, a silk doublet, you'd get the impenetrable silk +3, and possibly the +4 quality roll (I'm really not sure there), and then +1 from stamina, and then +3 from the Hekate cord, for either +7 or +11.

Item of Quality still applies, I believe. The item has had an innate magical quality brought out so it provides +7 Soak. I paid 8 pawns (of potentially kept for game start) vis to a Verditius for this. I was not including the +4 quality since that would only boost the protection if it were actually armor (normally it boosts other things for clothing), and if I shift it to a different type of armor, I'd have to redo the quality. Yes, +3 from the spell.

@Salutor

Do you have the arts to enchant these? I make your Muto Terram lab total: Muto (5) + Min(Terram, Animal, Herbam, Imaginem) (5) + Int +2 + MT (5) + Aura (5?) + Spirit's intelligence (+2) + Spirit's Magic Theory (+10) + Spirit's Inventive Genius (+3) + talisman (+5) = 42. Okay, You can.

You forgot a few things: bonus for the material, bonuses for other effects, bonus for being an Excellent item, the lab bonus, laboratory routines (not used here), and the replacement of the Magic Theory specialty when working on armor and shields. (I can drop the last, which makes it 3 seasons instead of 2 seasons and adds an additional attunement.)

@Salutor

Lab familiars are really quite powerful, aren't they? (Although I'm slightly dubious about it having Inventive Genius.)

Yes, they are. I gave it Inventive Genius through transformation, well after it had started its original work in the lab. Come to think of it, I should drop that. That's Hermetic. I'll put those seasons into working on the lab to get +3 more in general bonus. Ultimately it won't make a difference for what could have been done, but it will make things a little weaker at the new covenant.

@Salutor

The above sum probably also answers what was going to be a later question as to whether you were capable of learning all your spells - you can probably get lab texts for them.

Ya. Most of them are straight out of the books, and mostly ArM5 and the Guernicas chapter of HoH:TL at that. Only a couple are from the spells wiki. I didn't make up any myself. So I figured lab texts would be OK.

@Salutor

A compound item isn't allowed to contain more components than your magic theory score (pg 97).

What if I'm enchanting a piece of protection? I'm pretty sure the specialty of Protection should apply for Magic Theory in this case.

@Salutor

The Mysteries:RE and RoP:M seem to be inconsistent on the characteristics your familiar can have. According to TM:RE, the characteristics of a spirit familiar are only Intelligence, Perception and Communication, and you have Might/5 pyramid points to start with rather than the standard 7. According to RoP:M, it should have 7 points on a base score of 0 (and its characteristics should make sense for a rock). Perception +5 therefore seems a little odd.

Yes, I posted them a number of pages back. They started as Int 0, Per +2, Str +1, Sta +2, Pre 0, Com 0, Dex 0, Qui 0. That's the 7 of RoP:M or the 3 non-physical of TMRE. The rest are from transformation afterward.

@Salutor

How're you getting the bond score of 60? I make it In (10) + Vim (10) + mMF (10) + Aura (5) + Int (2) + MT (6) = 43.

Add 2 more for the cord. (I did the binding a second time near the end. The first was at 30.) Add the familiar since it can be a lab assistant after the first time, but not the first time. Add 4 more for the lab. And that was the one time I used a non-standard routine, though I think I counted low and it was not needed (+1 is trivial to handle).

@Salutor

With this many powers, Tasia and Vrahos musta have taken on a lot of properties of each other (I'm planning something similar with Alcimus, admittedly).

Ah, yes, I forgot to include that, though it's not based on the number of powers but the number of seasons. The MuIm12's were done as pairs.

@Salutor

You want an enchantment that gives you -3 to concentration rolls on for a month at a time?

Oooh, I missed that. I think that was from going back and forth between two spells. I meant to end with A Day Saved for the Future. Thanks! That would have been a huge mistake.

@Salutor

Similarly, a spell that makes you unable to touch metal for the same duration? (If you wanted to cast a spell at touch range on it, for example - or wear your armour. Or have you limited it to only apply to iron?) Concentration duration with the bond maintaining concentration would seem a better way of doing it.

Note that the armor, as a talisman, is considered to be part of me and not something outside of that, so I'm OK there. But your suggestion of concentration may still be the way to go. There could be other times I'd want to touch metal. Or, yes, make it iron/steel only.

@Salutor

Similar comment on the Ward Against Metal as the talisman enchantment - you can just about enchant it, but it'll take you ages I make your relevant lab total Rego (10) + Terram (6) + mMF (6) + Int (+2) + MT (6) + Aura (5?) + Spirit's intelligence (+2) + Spirit's Magic Theory (+10) + Spirit's Inventive Genius (+3) = 50, so it'll have taken you 4 seasons to create.

For a ward to protect me from metal a Magic Theory specialty of Protection should definitely apply, so MT (5+8). And then there's the +1 general and +3 familiar bonuses from the lab I mentioned above.

@Salutor

What does Fanning the Infernal Flames do?

What's the Binding Bond? Is it something from a book I don't have?

Ah. These are from RoP:tI. She used Binding once, discovered it wasn't a good thing to be doing, didn't use it again, and destroyed the book. (This is mentioned in the history.) Fanning the Infernal Flames is the CrVi equivalent to Demon's Eternal Oblivion, but it's done temporarily instead of using Vis. You temporarily at temporary might to the might pool, though any overflow (which is at least 7 points every time in this case) is lost.

Chris

[callen]

Yes, Salutor, looking back at it I think your suggestion of materials for the ward is a good one. I'm favoring that over the Concentration idea. I'll just have the ward against iron/steel, not against all metals. That will make lots of things easier. For example, I'll be bringing bronze flatware, goblets, and plates with me.

As for shared traits, I've come up with the following: she has taken on more of an ethereal beauty than she had before, her skin has smoothed and no longer wrinkles, her skin has smoothed leaving her without body hair, she has Steadfast +1 of her own, and I'd already been writing her as liking to smash things more. Meanwhile Vrahos has Optimistic +2 and its appearance is irrelevant. I figure Vrahos will also be more interested in investigation and mystery now. How do those sound?

I still need to decide on sigils...

Chris

[MTKnife]

@callen

Thanks for looking it over so carefully!!! I do appreciate it. I made a bunch of errors earlier and had to keep catching them. You caught a few that slipped by. I realize I should have said I'd built the lab up to +1 General, +3 Items, +3 Familiar. Sorry - very bad on my part not to mention that.

@Salutor

Also, isn't +8 higher than you're allowed? You've only taken faerie sympathy as a minor virtue, so you've got a cap of 1 + warping score (2) = 3.

Actually, that's not really the cap. First, your calculations should be 1+1+2=4.

No, his calculation is correct: the maximum Sympathy score is 1 (for a Minor version of the Virtue) + her Warping, thus 3. The description of the Virtue on pp. 112-3 is quite clear on this point.

As for the subject of the Sympathy, "Protection" is a little broad, since it would presumably apply to Brawl rolls or any other defense roll using a combat Ability, and God knows what else (apparently including the Lab Total for enchanting a suit of armor)--that is, I think, far beyond something that's supposed to be equivalent to a Minor Magical Focus. A Sympathy limited to just Parma Magica would be narrow enough, but this is supposed to be a sympathy to some aspect of faerie, and there's nothing very fae about Parma Magica.

In addition, I share Salutor's concern that Parma Magic is, essentially, a Supernatural Ability, since it relies on the Gift. I assume that the rules prevent Sympathy Traits from adding to magic totals in order to limit their power. Using a Sympathy Trait to add to a Lab Total is possibly also problematic, for the same reason, though this would be a tough line to draw, since Magic Theory isn't inherently magical (non-Gifted characters can learn it), and there are other cases where abilities that are even more clearly non-magical (such as Craft) can be added to Lab Totals. I think I'm comfortable with adding a Sympathy Trait to a Lab Total (though not Parma, which is an inherently magical Ability), but in this particular case, the real concern is the breadth of "Protection".

@Salutor

The enchantments actually change the material the armour is made of rather than merely its appearence, correct? In the case of, for example, a silk doublet, you'd get the impenetrable silk +3, and possibly the +4 quality roll (I'm really not sure there), and then +1 from stamina, and then +3 from the Hekate cord, for either +7 or +11.

Item of Quality still applies, I believe. The item has had an innate magical quality brought out so it provides +7 Soak. I paid 8 pawns (of potentially kept for game start) vis to a Verditius for this. I was not including the +4 quality since that would only boost the protection if it were actually armor (normally it boosts other things for clothing), and if I shift it to a different type of armor, I'd have to redo the quality. Yes, +3 from the spell.

A +7 Item of Quality bonus would require the Verditius in question to have a Philosophiae score of 7. I've seen characters with an Ability that high, for specialists (Single Weapon for a grog) or for Magic Theory and Parma Magica, but remember that a Verditius also has to learn a Craft ability. I can believe there are a few Verditius magi out there with a 7 or more in Philosophiae, but it's harder to believe that one of the few who exist (they would all, I would assume, be fairly senior magi) is willing spend a season to transform a suit of armor in exchange for a few pawns of vis.

@Salutor

Lab familiars are really quite powerful, aren't they? (Although I'm slightly dubious about it having Inventive Genius.)

Yes, they are. I gave it Inventive Genius through transformation, well after it had started its original work in the lab. Come to think of it, I should drop that. That's Hermetic.

I'll say that I've given the cat I'm making Personal Vis Source, which is also Hermetic, but that one's Hermetic only because, for the most part, non-magus characters have no need for vis (there are a few Hermetic Virtues and Flaws that aren't magical at all, like Hermetic Prestige, Skilled Parens, and Weak Parens). Inventive Genius, by contrast, would I think be linked directly to the Gift, and so I agree that you've made the right call on that once.

I'm skeptical of Puissant Magic Theory as well: yes, this is a grog-level familiar, and as such not expected to be overly independent, but Transformation is supposed to enhance a magical being's essential nature, making it more of what it already is. Improved Characteristics or Great Int to make a familiar smarter I can understand (increasing Int makes the thing a better, smarter version of what it was before), but Puissant Magic Theory simply makes it a better familiar--or actually, just a better lab assistant.

I'll put those seasons into working on the lab to get +3 more in general bonus. Ultimately it won't make a difference for what could have been done, but it will make things a little weaker at the new covenant.

I'm not clear on what this means: are you having the familiar improve the lab for Tasia, instead of her doing it herself? If so, I think that, technically, after any improvements, if the lab has a positive Refinement, Tasia would have to spend a season to "take it over" before using it (the sidebar on Covenants pg. 118). I think having the familiar improve the lab is very clever, but there's supposed to be a cost (in time) to lab improvements. (Admittedly, I'd find this more abusive for a familiar with higher Might, since the latter wouldn't be sacrificing valuable study time.)

@Salutor

The Mysteries:RE and RoP:M seem to be inconsistent on the characteristics your familiar can have. According to TM:RE, the characteristics of a spirit familiar are only Intelligence, Perception and Communication, and you have Might/5 pyramid points to start with rather than the standard 7. According to RoP:M, it should have 7 points on a base score of 0 (and its characteristics should make sense for a rock). Perception +5 therefore seems a little odd.

Yes, I posted them a number of pages back. They started as Int 0, Per +2, Str +1, Sta +2, Pre 0, Com 0, Dex 0, Qui 0. That's the 7 of RoP:M or the 3 non-physical of TMRE. The rest are from transformation afterward.

In that case, you need to list the Qualities in question: I make 6 points of Characteristics (3 for Int +2 and 3 to go from Per +2 to Per +3) (that is, two instances of the Minor Quality Minor Virtue: Improved Characteristics), plus two instances of Great Perception.

@Salutor

With this many powers, Tasia and Vrahos musta have taken on a lot of properties of each other (I'm planning something similar with Alcimus, admittedly).

Ah, yes, I forgot to include that, though it's not based on the number of powers but the number of seasons. The MuIm12's were done as pairs.

I'm not sure what either of those two statements means.

@Salutor

Similarly, a spell that makes you unable to touch metal for the same duration? (If you wanted to cast a spell at touch range on it, for example - or wear your armour. Or have you limited it to only apply to iron?) Concentration duration with the bond maintaining concentration would seem a better way of doing it.

Note that the armor, as a talisman, is considered to be part of me and not something outside of that, so I'm OK there. But your suggestion of concentration may still be the way to go. There could be other times I'd want to touch metal. Or, yes, make it iron/steel only.

I'd be inclined to say that it would still be affected by the effect, in theory, but since it's covered by your Magic Resistance, that wouldn't be a problem unless your Penetration is ridiculous.

Scott

[callen]

OK. First, since people don't like the Faerie things (Faerie Sympathy, Faerie Speech), I'm going to rework a bunch of things without any Faerie stuff. So you don't need to worry about Faerie Sympathy and Faerie Speech anymore. I'll be making essentially the same character but with a bit of a different origin because of swapping out Faerie Blood. Things will end up being almost the same, though.

Now, unless we're house-ruling a bunch of things, let me make some corrections:

@MTKnife

No, his calculation is correct: the maximum Sympathy score is 1 (for a Minor version of the Virtue) + her Warping, thus 3. The description of the Virtue on pp. 112-3 is quite clear on this point.

Yes, I think it is quite clear, but no, that isn't right. First, the partial cap is 1 (minor virtue) +1 (faerie blood) +2 (warping) = 4. Second, there are several methods of raising a Sympathy Trait, and this cap does not apply to all of them. So, no, this is not the maximum score.

@MTKnife

As for the subject of the Sympathy, "Protection" is a little broad

It is straight out of the books. So are weapons, violence, and women.

@MTKnife

Improved Characteristics or Great Int to make a familiar smarter I can understand (increasing Int makes the thing a better, smarter version of what it was before), but Puissant Magic Theory simply makes it a better familiar--or actually, just a better lab assistant.

This is what I was thinking: make it better at what it is. That would be two things: smashing things and being a familiar. Every transformation was done in that fashion.

@MTKnife

I'm not clear on what this means: are you having the familiar improve the lab for Tasia, instead of her doing it herself? If so, I think that, technically, after any improvements, if the lab has a positive Refinement, Tasia would have to spend a season to "take it over" before using it (the sidebar on Covenants pg. 118). I think having the familiar improve the lab is very clever, but there's supposed to be a cost (in time) to lab improvements. (Admittedly, I'd find this more abusive for a familiar with higher Might, since the latter wouldn't be sacrificing valuable study time.)

Actually, according to the rules you could just have a mundane servant, train them in Magic Theory, and have them add things to the lab. As long as it's your lab being built for you to use it, that's fine. One technicality I don't like is that you could just say every lab is built for itinerant magi, and so there's never a problem for anyone regardless of refinement, but that's pretty obviously not intended. I still generally like to limit it to familiars for personally, though I don't tend to rule on it.

@MTKnife

I'm not sure what either of those two statements means.

When you add stuff to the bond you take on traits of each other.

@MTKnife

I'd be inclined to say that it would still be affected by the effect, in theory

You know this would imply that using a ward against Corpus would make you explode, right? "Your talisman is considered part of you as long as you are touching it." So a ward to repel something from yourself repels part of yourself?

Chris

[MTKnife]

@callen

OK. First, since people don't like the Faerie things (Faerie Sympathy, Faerie Speech), I'm going to rework a bunch of things without any Faerie stuff. So you don't need to worry about Faerie Sympathy and Faerie Speech anymore. I'll be making essentially the same character but with a bit of a different origin because of swapping out Faerie Blood. Things will end up being almost the same, though.

Now, unless we're house-ruling a bunch of things, let me make some corrections:

@MTKnife

No, his calculation is correct: the maximum Sympathy score is 1 (for a Minor version of the Virtue) + her Warping, thus 3. The description of the Virtue on pp. 112-3 is quite clear on this point.

Yes, I think it is quite clear, but no, that isn't right. First, the partial cap is 1 (minor virtue) +1 (faerie blood) +2 (warping) = 4. Second, there are several methods of raising a Sympathy Trait, and this cap does not apply to all of them. So, no, this is not the maximum score.

Sorry, yes, I missed the bonus for Faerie Blood, which would make the cap 4. I'm not sure what other methods you're talking about, since the paragraph spread across 102-3 seems pretty firm in indicating that a Sympathy Trait can't exceed Warping Score. It's not relevant at this point to Tasia--and I do commend you for removing the Faerie Blood, since there are already another couple of faerie-blooded magi in the troupe--but if I'm missing some rules, I'd like to know for future reference.

@MTKnife

As for the subject of the Sympathy, "Protection" is a little broad

It is straight out of the books. So are weapons, violence, and women.

Really? Where is it used?

@MTKnife

Improved Characteristics or Great Int to make a familiar smarter I can understand (increasing Int makes the thing a better, smarter version of what it was before), but Puissant Magic Theory simply makes it a better familiar--or actually, just a better lab assistant.

This is what I was thinking: make it better at what it is. That would be two things: smashing things and being a familiar. Every transformation was done in that fashion.

How though can being a familiar be part of its Essential Nature, when it wasn't a familiar when it initially came to life?

I'm not in any case as concerned about this as I was about the Inventive Genius, which you already dropped: taking Puissant Magic Theory gives you a +2 for one Quality point, vs. a +1 for spending three points of Improved Characteristics (also one Quality point) on Int.

@MTKnife

I'm not clear on what this means: are you having the familiar improve the lab for Tasia, instead of her doing it herself? If so, I think that, technically, after any improvements, if the lab has a positive Refinement, Tasia would have to spend a season to "take it over" before using it (the sidebar on Covenants pg. 118). I think having the familiar improve the lab is very clever, but there's supposed to be a cost (in time) to lab improvements. (Admittedly, I'd find this more abusive for a familiar with higher Might, since the latter wouldn't be sacrificing valuable study time.)

Actually, according to the rules you could just have a mundane servant, train them in Magic Theory, and have them add things to the lab. As long as it's your lab being built for you to use it, that's fine. One technicality I don't like is that you could just say every lab is built for itinerant magi, and so there's never a problem for anyone regardless of refinement, but that's pretty obviously not intended. I still generally like to limit it to familiars for personally, though I don't tend to rule on it.

I don't think that's what the rules actually say: they're vague, but the "owned or used by someone else" statement on pg. 118 suggests that if someone else built it or Refined it or improved it, or even just rearranged it for their own use (on the latter point, see later in the paragraph), it takes a season to take it over. You're right about the note on labs for transient use--my inclination is that transient-use labs must entail some extra costs of some sort (say, an extra Virtue that has to be added, and that perhaps even reduces General Quality slightly to reflect a lack of optimization), and we do need a rule on it, since half the labs in the covenant will be of that type.

The bottom line here though is that adding improvements to a lab it supposed to exact a cost: in exchange for using seasons to improve the lab, in the future you get a bonus on your Lab Totals. If you can have your familiar do it for you, that's not really what happens (and in addition, it's maybe not the way the average magus would treat his best friend); I agree with you that having an unGifted lab assistant do it for you really shouldn't happen.

@MTKnife

I'm not sure what either of those two statements means.

When you add stuff to the bond you take on traits of each other.

That wasn't what I had trouble understanding--it was the part of the sentence about "number of seasons". The source of my confusion is that you seem to have labeled enchantments of the familiar bond (which are things that cause the magus and familiar to take on traits of one another) as "powers". It would be clearer if you'd use the term "powers" to refer only to magical powers that come from Virtues or Qualities. I do think though that the number of changes should be equal to the actual number of enchantments, not the seasons spent enchanting.

@MTKnife

I'd be inclined to say that it would still be affected by the effect, in theory

You know this would imply that using a ward against Corpus would make you explode, right? "Your talisman is considered part of you as long as you are touching it." So a ward to repel something from yourself repels part of yourself?

In context, I think the statement in question in the rules refers to spell range and Magic Resistance, but you could go either way with the interpretation.

Scott

[callen]

@MTKnife

Sorry, yes, I missed the bonus for Faerie Blood, which would make the cap 4. I'm not sure what other methods you're talking about, since the paragraph spread across 102-3 seems pretty firm in indicating that a Sympathy Trait can't exceed Warping Score. It's not relevant at this point to Tasia--and I do commend you for removing the Faerie Blood, since there are already another couple of faerie-blooded magi in the troupe--but if I'm missing some rules, I'd like to know for future reference.

I had to roll over 1000 rolls to craft the armor over 3 seasons based on discussions with everyone. Every single 1 adds a point and every single botch 0 subtracts a point and adds a warping point. Such increases are not capped by warping.

@MTKnife

Really? Where is it used?

I had taken (gone now) Padfoot blood. That is one of the recommended Sympathies. Look at the Faerie Blood suggestions in RoP:F.

@MTKnife

How though can being a familiar be part of its Essential Nature, when it wasn't a familiar when it initially came to life?

You seem to have the conditional statement basically backwards. Transformation is restricted to not oppose the essential nature; it is not restricted to be aligned with the essential nature. My personal restriction of make it a better familiar or make it a better smasher is actually a greater restriction than Transformation uses. I like my restriction, but Transformation is far more broad than that.

@MTKnife

I don't think that's what the rules actually say: they're vague, but the "owned or used by someone else" statement on pg. 118 suggests that if someone else built it or Refined it or improved it, or even just rearranged it for their own use (on the latter point, see later in the paragraph), it takes a season to take it over.

I agree in terms of Refinement because that means they're organizing it as they feel it should be, which may not be how you feel it should be. However, I really don't agree with the suggestion. Craftsmen tailor-make things for other persons all the time in ways that would be totally unsuitable to themselves.

@MTKnife

The bottom line here though is that adding improvements to a lab it supposed to exact a cost: in exchange for using seasons to improve the lab, in the future you get a bonus on your Lab Totals. If you can have your familiar do it for you, that's not really what happens (and in addition, it's maybe not the way the average magus would treat his best friend)

Well, if you're both working towards a goal and only one can work on a given piece at a time, that's not exactly using someone as your servant.

Anyway, are we house-ruling against this?

@MTKnife

it was the part of the sentence about "number of seasons".

Ah, you're right. I mixed up familiars and talismans. Talismans are based on the number of seasons, familiars on the powers. I used "powers" because the book uses that term.

Chris

[callen]

Here's a revamped version of Tasia at the end of apprenticeship. I decided it might make more sense to join the Terrae Cult after proving herself worth (passing the gauntlet). Also, since I'm changing background away from the Faerie Blood, I shifted away from Gentle Gift. I'm using the two Puissants and the Affinity to replace what the Faerie stuff was doing for me in many ways.

Chris

Int +2, Per +2, Str -3, Sta +1, Pre +2, Com +2, Dex 0, Qui 0

Affinity w/ Parma Magica +1
Book Learner +1
Flawless Magic +3
The Gift
Gift of Tongues +1
Hermetic Maga
Hermetic Prestige
Minor Magical Focus: Terram Magic Might Beings +1
Puissant Magic Theory +1
Puissant Parma Magica +1
Venus’s Blessing +1

Busybody -1
Legacy -1
Motion Sickness -1
Optimistic -3
Small Frame -1
Study Requirement -3

Artes Liberales 2
Athletics 1
Awareness 1
Brawl 1
Charm 1
Code of Hermes 3
Dominion Lore 1
Etiquette 1
Faerie Lore 1
Folk Ken 2
Guile 1
Infernal Lore 1
Intrigue 1
Living Language: Greek 5
Living Language: Latin 3
Magic Lore 1
Magic Theory 4
Organization Lore: OoH 1
Parma Magica 1 (3 extra points)
Spell Mastery: Dead Man’s Eyes 1
Spell Mastery: Whispers Through the Black Gate 1
Spell Mastery: The Whole from the Part 1
Spell Mastery: Wizard’s Leap 1
Spell Mastery: Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie 1
Spell Mastery: Posing the Silent Question 1
Spell Mastery: Weary Eyes 1
Spell Mastery: Demon’s Eternal Oblivion 1
Stealth 1
Swim 1

Intellego 10
Rego 5

Dead Man’s Eyes (Spells Wiki) [InCo(Im)15]
Whispers Through the Black Gate [InCo(Me)15]
The Whole from the Part [InCo20]
Wizard’s Leap [ReCo15]
Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie [InMe20]
Posing the Silent Question [InMe20]
Weary Eyes (Range Eye version of The Call to Slumber) [ReMe5]
Demon’s Eternal Oblivion [PeVi10]

[MTKnife]

@callen

@MTKnife

Sorry, yes, I missed the bonus for Faerie Blood, which would make the cap 4. I'm not sure what other methods you're talking about, since the paragraph spread across 102-3 seems pretty firm in indicating that a Sympathy Trait can't exceed Warping Score. It's not relevant at this point to Tasia--and I do commend you for removing the Faerie Blood, since there are already another couple of faerie-blooded magi in the troupe--but if I'm missing some rules, I'd like to know for future reference.

I had to roll over 1000 rolls to craft the armor over 3 seasons based on discussions with everyone. Every single 1 adds a point and every single botch 0 subtracts a point and adds a warping point. Such increases are not capped by warping.

I'm not sure what rule you're referring to, but I don't see how it would imply that you can take your Sympathy Trait above the normal limit (and if you're adding Warping points with botches, shouldn't your Warping increase in any case?).

@MTKnife

Really? Where is it used?

I had taken (gone now) Padfoot blood. That is one of the recommended Sympathies. Look at the Faerie Blood suggestions in RoP:F.

OK, fair enough, and I think it would be OK if applied only to non-magical things, and maybe even to Lab Totals.

@MTKnife

How though can being a familiar be part of its Essential Nature, when it wasn't a familiar when it initially came to life?

You seem to have the conditional statement basically backwards. Transformation is restricted to not oppose the essential nature; it is not restricted to be aligned with the essential nature. My personal restriction of make it a better familiar or make it a better smasher is actually a greater restriction than Transformation uses. I like my restriction, but Transformation is far more broad than that.

It's an arguable point, but this one I'm not too concerned about.

@MTKnife

I don't think that's what the rules actually say: they're vague, but the "owned or used by someone else" statement on pg. 118 suggests that if someone else built it or Refined it or improved it, or even just rearranged it for their own use (on the latter point, see later in the paragraph), it takes a season to take it over.

I agree in terms of Refinement because that means they're organizing it as they feel it should be, which may not be how you feel it should be. However, I really don't agree with the suggestion. Craftsmen tailor-make things for other persons all the time in ways that would be totally unsuitable to themselves.

A single item is quite different from a lab, that has to be used in a very complex fashion that involves a lot of interacting parts. In any case, it would be possible, at worst, for the familiar to set the lab up, and then require the maga to spend one season at familiarization--the only thing that would be problematic would be ongoing improvements.

@MTKnife

The bottom line here though is that adding improvements to a lab it supposed to exact a cost: in exchange for using seasons to improve the lab, in the future you get a bonus on your Lab Totals. If you can have your familiar do it for you, that's not really what happens (and in addition, it's maybe not the way the average magus would treat his best friend)

Well, if you're both working towards a goal and only one can work on a given piece at a time, that's not exactly using someone as your servant.

Anyway, are we house-ruling against this?

Unless a majority of the troop objects, I'm interpreting the RAW to mean that you'd need a season of familiarization.

@MTKnife

it was the part of the sentence about "number of seasons".

Ah, you're right. I mixed up familiars and talismans. Talismans are based on the number of seasons, familiars on the powers. I used "powers" because the book uses that term.

Yeah, but it was written before Magic--which makes it necessary to distinguish clearly between the two things.

Scott

[callen]

@MTKnife

I'm not sure what rule you're referring to, but I don't see how it would imply that you can take your Sympathy Trait above the normal limit (and if you're adding Warping points with botches, shouldn't your Warping increase in any case?).

With -4 botch dice to a minimum of 0 due to Precise Casting and Careful w/ Finesse, botches weren't an issue. As for the limit, reread the end of the section where it talks about the 1's and 0's and says the limit doesn't apply to them.

@MTKnife

A single item is quite different from a lab, that has to be used in a very complex fashion that involves a lot of interacting parts.

Having built laboratory equipment for others and installed things in research labs that I never used at all myself for part of my living in the past, I would have to disagree. But I'm perfectly flexible vis-a-vis the game and the rules.

@MTKnife

In any case, it would be possible, at worst, for the familiar to set the lab up, and then require the maga to spend one season at familiarization--the only thing that would be problematic would be ongoing improvements.

Unless a majority of the troop objects, I'm interpreting the RAW to mean that you'd need a season of familiarization.

OK. I'm fine with that. We should note it with the house rules, though.

Chris

[MTKnife]

@callen

@MTKnife

I'm not sure what rule you're referring to, but I don't see how it would imply that you can take your Sympathy Trait above the normal limit (and if you're adding Warping points with botches, shouldn't your Warping increase in any case?).

With -4 botch dice to a minimum of 0 due to Precise Casting and Careful w/ Finesse, botches weren't an issue. As for the limit, reread the end of the section where it talks about the 1's and 0's and says the limit doesn't apply to them.

As I said, I don't know what rule you're referring to. Where is it?

@MTKnife

A single item is quite different from a lab, that has to be used in a very complex fashion that involves a lot of interacting parts.

Having built laboratory equipment for others and installed things in research labs that I never used at all myself for part of my living in the past, I would have to disagree. But I'm perfectly flexible vis-a-vis the game and the rules.

You've built equipment in an age when most equipment is standardized, even mass-produced, and even methods and training are to some extent standardized. Hermetic magi work in a world with no scientific method, real eye-of-newt stuff. Lab research is intensely idiosyncratic, though admittedly more standardized in the Order than elsewhere. I want to pose the question to the ARM forum, though.

@MTKnife

In any case, it would be possible, at worst, for the familiar to set the lab up, and then require the maga to spend one season at familiarization--the only thing that would be problematic would be ongoing improvements.

Unless a majority of the troop objects, I'm interpreting the RAW to mean that you'd need a season of familiarization.

OK. I'm fine with that. We should note it with the house rules, though.

I can do that tomorrow, when I'm home.

Scott

[callen]

@MTKnife

As I said, I don't know what rule you're referring to. Where is it?

I just found my book (tucked under my side of the bed - yup, an addict). It's right where I said. It talks about fluctuations due to the stress roll 1's and 0's. Then it says "These fluctuations are not limited by the character's Warping Score." It's in the middle of the left-hand column on page 103.

@MTKnife

You've built equipment in an age when most equipment is standardized, even mass-produced, and even methods and training are to some extent standardized.

I was building things from scratch in a machine shop. And, no, most of this stuff wasn't mass-produced at all. It was needed so rarely or it was so specialized that most of it was designed and built on-site.

Chris

[Salutor]

@callen

@Salutor

What does Fanning the Infernal Flames do?

What's the Binding Bond? Is it something from a book I don't have?

Ah. These are from RoP:tI. She used Binding once, discovered it wasn't a good thing to be doing, didn't use it again, and destroyed the book. (This is mentioned in the history.)

Chris

Sorry, disappeared for a day. I think a lot of the points are now fairly redundant if you're planning to strip out the faerie elements, so I'll just comment on this. I've now dug out my copy of RoP:tI.

• As far as I can tell learning Binding will have the same penalties as learning any other supernatural ability (I know it's a supernatural art, but pg 114 of RoP:tI says they may be learned like other Supernatural abilities). With an Arts total of 15 at gauntlet and no supernatural virtues your penalty is "only" -15 (immediately after gauntlet), but that still means the book would need a quality of 20 (16 as an art?). (Possibly) alternatively, Binding is given as a Major virtue.
• Why would your familiar allow you to Bind it like that? And why would Tasia want to do it? The last paragraph of Binding (pg 117) says that "Very few spirits agree to a binding; those that do usually expect something of great value in exchange for their sacrifice. Spirits who have been bound for a long time are often very bad tempered and disorientated when released from their imprisonment and are as likely to attack their liberators as thank them". You've bound Vrahos directly into your own body, so it can't move independantly of you (not that it could have done much as a rock either). Since it has Ghost Touch and can talk to you, it might be able to help you in your labwork, but I'm not sure if it would want to. I'm also not sure how being bound would affect its ability to advance; you can almost certainly get exposure xp, and probably training, but I don't see how it could study independantly of Tasia, and I'm not sure how it would consume vis either.
• Your character will appear unholy to any divine investigation (including Sense Holiness/Unholiness). Possibly magical ones as well; I'm less sure of that. Said investigation will have to penetrate your magic resistance of course, though.

[Salutor]

Arya: How many years post-gauntlet is Portia? I need it for working out the age of my own companion.

[callen]

@Salutor

As far as I can tell learning Binding will have the same penalties as learning any other supernatural ability (I know it's a supernatural art, but pg 114 of RoP:tI says they may be learned like other Supernatural abilities). With an Arts total of 15 at gauntlet and no supernatural virtues your penalty is "only" -15 (immediately after gauntlet), but that still means the book would need a quality of 20 (16 as an art?).

Yes, roughly. The Abilities need to hit 1, requiring a total of 20, yes. But it's actually 15 for an Art since an Art has to hit 0, not 1. Summa Q12 +3 (Book Learner) does it.

@Salutor

Why would your familiar allow you to Bind it like that? And why would Tasia want to do it? The last paragraph of Binding (pg 117) says that "Very few spirits agree to a binding; those that do usually expect something of great value in exchange for their sacrifice. Spirits who have been bound for a long time are often very bad tempered and disorientated when released from their imprisonment and are as likely to attack their liberators as thank them". You've bound Vrahos directly into your own body, so it can't move independantly of you (not that it could have done much as a rock either). Since it has Ghost Touch and can talk to you, it might be able to help you in your labwork, but I'm not sure if it would want to. I'm also not sure how being bound would affect its ability to advance; you can almost certainly get exposure xp, and probably training, but I don't see how it could study independantly of Tasia, and I'm not sure how it would consume vis either.

That was what I was writing into the background. It gains significantly more mobility than it had before and is able to smash many, many more things than it had available before. Essentially, everything it could to is being multiplied manifold.

Yes, consuming vis might be tricky. I haven't thought about that one. Since it can move things around and see independently from a nearby point, studying books is OK. However, we certainly have to be working together. So, for example, if one of us is in the lab, so is the other. That restricts the independence, but doesn't inhibit it.

@Salutor

Your character will appear unholy to any divine investigation (including Sense Holiness/Unholiness). Possibly magical ones as well; I'm less sure of that. Said investigation will have to penetrate your magic resistance of course, though.

Or at least Tainted. A number of them can't tell the difference between Tainted and Unholy. Hey, it's more fun with some risk, right! She was tempted into it (the ends justify the means) but has since decided never to use the rest of binding (binding spirits to objects or other persons, nor more spirits to herself).

Chris

[callen]

@Salutor

Arya: How many years post-gauntlet is Portia? I need it for working out the age of my own companion.

Ah, yes, and I'll have to know similar things to figure out the faerie I'm making for Scott.

Chris