The one time I've seen a Holy Maga played, it was done very badly, because the player had little knowledge of Christianity, and played the maga in question as sanctimonious rather than holy. As long you think you can do it well, though, go right ahead. The other idea could also work, but yes, you'd probably need to be a member of a mystery cult (or something equivalent).
Scott
Although I have a decent knowledge of Christianity, I don't think it's going to work for this character. I've actually been thinking moreso of making him a member of the Neo-Mercureans. In addition to his goal of establishing a Redcap Way station, he'd be looking to set himself up as High Priest for the Novgorod Tribunal.
On that note, it doesn't seem to be canon, but would the Hermetic Alchemy line of mysteries be appropriate for a Neo-Mercurean? The concept, as it's evolving, is that he was initially a Mercere healer, focusing on healing and longevity rituals (what would you think of a Major Magical Focus in 'Regeneration' or something of the like, that covers both Healing and Aging?). As he is initiated into the Mystery Cult, he begins to sense a connection between the human body and Vis, and so starts fooling around with alchemy as part of this process.
I was also planning to take the Major Flaw Dependent. This would be either a sibling (perhaps a twin) or a child who has, since birth, been gravely ill, and this has motivated me to work toward a cure. I would likely administer a Longevity ritual to them once it became clear that curing their illness would be a lengthy process.
On the subject of longevity rituals, I was trying to figure out what a good Lab Total would be for me to act as an expert within the house, someone who Redcaps come to for their rituals, etc. Presuming whoever I am performing it for acts as a lab assistant for the season (no reason not to, as they have to be present any way) with at least Magic Theory of 3 and Int of 2, the build I'm working on could easily create a +11 LR. Would this be 'good enough' to fulfill this role, or should I shoot for higher? Just trying to figure out at what point in his history he would have started performing LRs.
Paganism definitely works better than Christianity for a Mercere, and Neo Mercurian fits as a cult. Point of warning is that Gregorius has a fairly typical Tremere attitude to paganism (i.e. a certain amount of revulsion); that's not necessarily a reason not to play one, and I've no OOC objections to you doing so, but you probably want to factor it in. Your magus will almost certainly be massively more senior and somewhat better backed than him anyway, albeit a guest intially.
Establishing a new Mercere house at the Covenant would definitely be long term planning (it's by no means impossible the covenant could form the nucleus of a new tribunal one day) rather than for short term convenience (as it's currently miles away from anywhere, and not at all a secure location). I'll repeat MTKnife's comment about the covenant currently technically being affiliated to the Theban Tribunal, despite being closer to the Novgorod one (MTKnife - you may want to edit the "About this Saga" post for this - it still reads Novgorod at the moment). I think it was decided that the Theban tribunal was rather more likely to engage in such a venture.
I'm not really convinced by Hermetic Alchemy for Neo Mercurians - Mercurian magic has always seemed to be very much about rituals and group collaberation (that and mastery abilities), and alchemy doesn't really fit into that. The focus sounds fine in scope, although I might suggest renaming it, as "Regeneration" doesn't make me thing aging. Then again, I can't think of anything better to call it either.
The RedCap virtue in the main rules book says that the House arranges for all Redcaps to receive a Longevity Ritual from a magus with a labtotal of at least 50 when they start to age, so that's probably a good starting point. Redcaps (with a few canonical exceptions) aren't likely to know all that much magic theory, although they probably have at least a little bit.
On lab texts, I think anything reasonably standard up to and including level 30 should be easily gettable; up to 40 is possible but some effort, and anything above 40 is going to have required some serious favours (although that said, we do have a ReVi 50 Maintaining the Demanding Spell in our library). Ultimately MTKnife's call, though.
Hi Salutor, thanks for your comments.
After some reflection, I realized that the mystery cult/hermetic alchemy business was actually interfering in the concept I had in mind, so I'm going to work him up without that. I'll probably take a Minor Focusing in aging and Mercurean Magic as my Major Hermetic Virtue. Religion won't be nearly as much a part of his life, although he's probably a member of the Cult of Mercury to some extent.
Good thoughts on the location of the tribunal. I don't suspect that many redcaps would need to use this as a base for sending messages, as it sounds like we're really on the periphery of things. At this point, I'd have been drawn there more to seek out new sources of Vis, and to establish a base for any more adventurous/exploratory redcaps who want to do the same on their off-seasons 
I was thinking of taking Social Contacts and Temporal Influence to reflect his status within the house.
Here's what I've put together so far, my Mercere post-Gauntlet. I'll likely advance him a few decades. Even if he's quite old, I'm not particularly good at 'optimizing' or whatever, so hopefully a more experienced magus shouldn't throw too many things out of balance.
??? ex Mercere
Age 25
Characteristics:
Int +3
Per +1
Pre +2
Com +2
Str -2
Sta +2
Dex 0
Qik -2
Virtues:
Puissant Creo (House Virtue)
Mercurean Magic +3
Minor Magical Focus: Aging +1
Inventive Genius +1
Skilled Parens +1
Improved Characteristics +1
Affinity with Creo +1
Temporal Influence +1
Social Contacts +1
Flaws:
Chaotic Magic -3
Ambitious -3
Dependend -3
Compassionate -1
Abilities:
Native Language 5
Athletics 2
Awareness 2
Survival 2
Charm 3
Folk Ken 3
Ride 2
Artes Liberales 1
Latin 4
Magic Theory 3
Parma Magica 1
Bargain 3
Etiquette 3
Concentration 2
Finesse 2
Penetration 2
Brawl 1
Arts
Creo 8 +3
Intellego 6
Corpus 6
Ignem 6
Imaginem 2
Mentem 4
All Others 0
Starting Spells:
Pilum of Fire CrIg 15
Arc of Fiery Ribbons CrIg 20
Revealed Flaws of Mortal Flesh InCo 10
Whispers Through the Black Gate InCo 15
BInd Wounds CrCo 10
The Chirurgeon's Healing Touch CrCo 20
Gentle Touch of the Purified Body CrCo 20
Purification of the Festering Wounds CrCo 20
OK, guys, I'm back--after a four-day car trip, I spent two days extremely ill.
Salutor made good comments about this, but one possibility might be a character who's attempting to synthesize the knowledge of two different cults.
Sounds good to me.
Salutor is generally good at crunching numbers. I think though there's been at least one discussion on this or a similar topic on the Atlas forum.
Scott
Whoops. Let me go fix it.
Scott
While you're absolutely right, also keep in mind that the Redcaps have every intention of keeping regular contact, given the number of magi passing through, the possibility (indeed, likelihood) of new discoveries, and the covenant's de facto status as an early warning station for any danger emerging from the East. (Not that I could imagine anything like that. Really.)
Scott
Hi Folks,
Thanks for all the help and comments. I'm starting to get a good picture of my character in my mind. I've decided, as mentioned, to forgo the Mystery Cult business, although he probably is involved to some degree with the Cult of Heroes, not necessarily as an active member, but with good relations.
I've worked him out as a relatively powerful magus, about 30 years post-Gauntlet. I hope this will be all right. Quite a number of seasons have been spent on creating Longevity Rituals (his specialty) for other magi. I'll show a record of how many, and at what level. Toward the end, he's capable of creating very high-level ones. At the end of the build, his Lab Total (with an apprentice, more on her later) is 81, which, if the magus he is performing it for also acts as a lab assistant, gives a +18 to aging rolls. Depending on what you think, this may make him one of the foremost experts in House Mercere, if not beyond.
In 'exchange' for some of these rituals, I've taken the liberty of accessing a couple of teachers and higher level spell lab texts. I haven't kept a strict accounting of what he would have been paid for each, but, with the troop's permission, we could hand-wave some of this. I forsee few problems with my selections, with three possible exceptions, Magnitude 12 Spells. You see, the Cult of Heroes has these lovely (Mental Characteristic) of the Heroes (CrMe 60). If I had my way, I'd have studied Int, Pre, and Com. Int is pretty vital to creating the extreme LRs, as I'd also cast it on my apprentice. The other two would help solidify him as a leader-type with far-reaching ambitions. Also, he could cast these on his Sodales Let me know if you folks think this is out of balance.
On the subject of his apprentice, and his Dependent flaw, like every good Gifted Mercere, he had many children. The last children he conceived before performing his own longevity ritual were born twins, a boy and a girl. As they grew older, it became evident that his daughter possessed the gift, and that he would train her as his apprentice. His son, however, suffered from many inexplicable ailments, which he has thus far been unable to cure. Much of his research into healing magic has been with the goal of curing his son. At the start of the saga, the twins will be 22, with the daughter having four years left of apprenticeship.
I also took the time to bind a familiar, but I'm still trying to decide what it will be. Any thoughts on an appropriate CrCo healing animal?
I'll post the stats for the start of age 57 in another post. I won't give all the details of when everything was gained at this point, although that is available upon request. I just want to give folks a chance to look over the big picture before going into too much detail.
Thanks again for your comments.
??? ex Mercere
Age 57 (still need to roll for aging) (Longevity Ritual: +13 @ Age 35, +18 @ Age 54)
Characteristics:
Int +5 (originally +3)
Per +1
Pre +5 (originally +2)
Com +5 (originally +2)
Str 0 (originally -2)
Sta +2
Dex 0
Qik 0 (originally -2)
Virtues:
Puissant Creo (House Virtue)
Mercurean Magic +3
Minor Magical Focus: Aging +1
Inventive Genius +1
Skilled Parens +1
Improved Characteristics +1
Affinity with Corpus +1
Temporal Influence +1
Social Contacts +1
Flaws:
Chaotic Magic -3
Ambitious -3
Dependent -3
Compassionate -1
Arts
Creo 16
Intellego 6
Muto 5
Perdo 10
Rego 10
Animal 5
Aquam 5
Auram 5
Corpus 15
Herbam 5
Ignem 5
Imaginem 5
Mentem 11
Terram 5
Vim 5
Spells:
Weaver's Trap of Webs CrAn 35
The Wizard's Mount CrAn 35
Opening the Tome of the Animal's Mind InAn 25
Commanding the Harnessed Beast ReAn 30
Bridge of Frost ReAq 30
The Incantation of Lightning CrAu 35
Bind Wounds CrCo 10
The Chirurgeon's Healing Touch CrCo 20
Gentle Touch of the Purified Body CrCo 20
Purification of the Festering Wounds CrCo 20
Cheating the Reaper CrCo 30
Personal Quickness of the Follower CrCo 30 (Range: Personal)
Personal Strength of the Follower CrCo 30 (Range: Personal)
Incantation of the Body Made Whole CrCo 40
Revealed Flaws of Mortal Flesh InCo 10
Whispers Through the Black Gate InCo 15
The Eye of the Sage InCo 30
The Wound That Weeps PeCo 15
Invocation of Weariness PeCo 20
Bane of the Decrepit Body PeCo 25
Incantation of the Milky Eyes PeCo 30
Twist of the Tongue PeCo 30
Clenched Grasp of the Crushed Heart PeCo 40
Leap of Homecoming ReCo 35
The Bountiful Feast CrHe 35
Converse with Plant and Tree InHe 25
Ward Against Heat and Flames ReIg 25
Veil of Invisibility PeIm 20
Communication of the Heroes CrMe 60
Intelligence of the Heroes CrMe 60
Presence of the Heroes CrMe 60
Thoughts Within Babble InMe 25
Conjuring the Mystic Tower CrTe 35
Earth Shock ReTe 30
The Earth Split Asunder ReTe 30
Abilities:
Native Language 5
Athletics 2
Awareness 2
Survival 2
Charm 3
Folk Ken 3
Ride 2
Artes Liberales 3
Latin 4
Magic Theory (Corpus) 6
Parma Magica 3
Bargain 3
Etiquette 3
Concentration 2
Finesse 2
Penetration 2
Brawl 1
Medicine 5
Teaching (Apprentices) 4
Code of Hermes 2
Order of Hermes Lore (House Mercere) 2
Dominion Lore 2
Infernal Lore 2
Intrigue 4
Bound Familiar (Lab Total: 55)
Golden Chord +4
Silver Chord +1
Bronze Chord 0
Apprentice (Daughter)
Int +5 (Originally +3)
Magic Theory (Creo) 6
Longevity Rituals Perfomed for Others: (Can add other's Int + MT + extra Vis as a bonus to lab total)
2 @ 81
1 @ 70
1 @ 62
1 @ 60
3 @ 55
2 @ 53
2 @ 50
For the most part, he sounds good. I would like to comment on the CrMe ritual.
Let me start by saying that I prefer to stick with the RaW as much as possible, and this is in the core rules. On top of that, I'd like to hear what others have to say, and I don't have the authority to make the rules for this saga by myself. However, rituals that increase stats permanently, especially those stats that play a role in doing magic. It's one thing if you have to work to research the ritual in question, but in this case, once the ritual is learned, you can increase Int all the way up to +5, and you can cast it on everyone else, too, for a rather modest cost in vis, and no lost lab time.
Therefore, let me put to you and the troop this question: if magi can buy an extra point of Int for 12 pawns of vis (plus some fee to the spell-caster, which is not likely to be that great, given that it doesn't cost lab time--or at most a season to learn the spell) and a single point of Warping (and that doesn't apply if you cast it on yourself, even if you learned it from a lab text), then why doesn't everyone in the Order with a decent vis income already have Int +5? I suppose warping (Quite apart from issues of game balance, I think we need an answer to that simply for the sake of verismilitude.
Scott
An excellent question Scott. Especially for a small House like Mercere, or a cohesive one like Tremere, I can't see why they wouldn't devote resources to having at least one or two magi being able to cast the spell on their sodales. The Vis cost can be mitigated, I, for example, have Mercurean magic which makes it only cost 6 per point. It seems like a slightly unsatisfying solution, but we could simply ban it for Int only, as other scores seem less problematic. Another possibility would be to limit it to Range: Personal, but both of these seem kind of arbitrary. I suppose we could alternatively limit the increase to max +3. Honestly, none of these seem like an ideal solution, but the problem of versimilitude remains ...
I'm not sure what I think about the stat increasing rituals. As previously commented, there's a bit of inconsistency with the main rule book giving guidelines that are accessible to everyone, but HoH:TL implying that they're something specific to the Hero Cult which rewards its members with them in exchange for dedicated service (which probably could include making longevity rituals for members). I'd be somewhat inclined to go for the "Secret of the Hero Cult" line, but don't have very strong feelings either way.
Could you break down his lab total for learning the level 60 rituals? I make his base CrMe lab total only Cr 16 + Me 11 + Int max 5 + Aura 5 + MT 6 = 43 - I assume the rest is from combination of apprentice and familiar bonuses (and possibly other things I've missed)? Similarly, can he actually cast them without spending a ridiculous amount in vis to boost the casting?
We've already had a Caladrius familiar, which is one obviously possibility for CrCo. Aurelentus (another magus with an interest in longevity rituals) in Magi of Hermes has a tortoise familiar which uses a CrCo lab total. A mandrake root might count, (it's definitely corpus, and leaves spell-like vis that can cure a medium or lesser wound due to poison or disease), although is more clearly Perdo Corpus. (pg 130 of RoP:M, and see also the list on pg 57. Let me know if you don't have the book and I'll describe in more detail).
My other thought, looking at him, is that Chaotic Magic isn't likely to come into play all that often, since he can only cast spontaneous spells ceremonially. I'd like to check with MTKnife whether the test for whether Chaotic Magic applies will come before or after the cap on spont level provided by time spent casting the spell? I'd urge before, as otherwise Chaotic Magic really isn't worth a Major Flaw (I'm slightly iffy on whether it is even that way round, although I acknowledge it's consistent with the rules).
Hi Salutor. As I was going over my notes, I think I may have made a mistake in the lab totals ... my spreadsheet failed me! 8) Depending on what we decide on how the CrCo/Me rituals go, it may not matter too much. They aren't necessarily an essential part of my character, and do take a lot of resources.
Also, I agree about Chaotic Magic. I'd be amenable to switching to another Flaw regarding spontaneous magic. Under my circumstances might it qualify as a minor flaw? I'll look over a few things.
Regarding virtues and flaws, I seem to recall that we can have 'acquired' various social flaws over the course of our career. I may, if it's okay, take social contacts and temporal influence in this way, and take two other virtues at the start.
Now regarding the rituals in question, I have a thought. Perhaps any particular ritual must be designed for a specific individual. Thus the lab text would be useless for casting the ritual on anyone else, as it would need to be researched for each specific individual. This does limit it quite a bit, as, as I have discovered, it takes quite a lot of effort to create sufficiently high lab totals. Another possibility would be to have this restriction only apply for abilities being raised to +4 or +5, above 'normal' human levels.
One way or another, I'm not sure I'll pursue the CrMe rituals, focusing my energies back into Corpus magic, maybe focusing a bit more on Perdo and Rego, in addition to Creo.
Also, Salutor, thanks for the thoughts on the familiar. I'll look into your suggestions and see what works. Really, any animal that has symbolic resonance with the notion of healing could work ... an asp might be appropriate, given the Mercury connection ...
Any traditional fertility symbol would work, too--a rabbit, for example.
Scott
Fertility symbols, what a good idea. Rabbit, Ram, Serpent again, these might work, I'll think about what will be most interesting.
Also, I'm wondering if there are any particular arts that are currently under/overrepresented within the Troupe. I'm currently working on Creo and Corpus, with a side of Perdo, but feel that one more (likely form) could round things out nicely. Any suggestions?
At the moment, there is a lot of Rego, Terram and Mentem - Gregorius' arts are basically a vastly inferior version of Tasia's, and Patrick's are almost (with the exception of Terram) strictly better than his as well. I haven't actually found this a major problem, but if you're trying to avoid duplication, then pretty much anything other than a Rego/Intellego Mentem/Terram specialist is the way to go.
I think Animal, Herbam, and Imaginem are also pretty well covered, by Viola, though she's by no means a specialist.
Scott
I think we're past the point where this was relevant, but I'd be inclined to say that Chaotic Magic has no effect on ceremonial casting (for the reason stated above), and therefore that it's inappropriate for a character who can cast only that way.
Scott
Typing on my phone, please forgive the brevity.
My understanding of the rules was that the CrMe spells would give a specific increase (from +3 to +4), which is somewhat limiting, and also are rituals, and thus prone to the horrific botches we all know and dread. Is that limitation enough?