Character Development

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

@MTKnife

If we discover that something threatens to break the setting

Ya, of course. That is just very subjective so I have to ask when something questionable comes up. I know generally the types of things to look for (see my post about feeding your familiar Vis so they can gain Vis Source Virtue).
Stat boosters a re a straight up guideline. I could invent the spell and cast it in game (in any game) and I don't think any one would complain. Gift of Reason is even in the book (the lowest level one that you use on dull apprentices or previously cunning familiars). So I should be able to Buy,Trade, or Quest for it according to Salutor?

I'm never saying I should be getting things for actual free (my plans in my tracker tend towards the most conservative assumption). But I've got Magic Theory generating Vis each year during Character Creation (or I could switch it to the accruing 5 pawns if it makes using it as currency more meaningful). I've got a Season marked out for adventuring every year (for selfish reasons I get +3 XP to adventures but they are still there) I could easily be doing favors for other Magi in exchange for Lab Texts or access to their library/guest lab for a time.

@MTKnife

The issue you've got is that, in ArM5, an apprentice would not have the Parma skill. Period. You get some basic training in it, but it doesn't actually work until after the Gauntlet. Therefore, the backstory about the marched master who left behind a bunch of apprentices who all knew Parma doesn't work (in contrast to ArM4, where it would have worked just fine).

That was the main conceit of the story. The apprentices were not being trained as hermetic apprentices they were being trained as magical killers. Their training was mostly practicing killing each other with magic. They wouldn't survive without Parma and they wouldn't learn how to fight people with Parma if their 'classmates' didn't have Parma.

@MTKnife

I think I intentionally left this vague, but stuff you've worked on in the past year is a good rule of thumb.

OK, that works, the book is a bit vague too. It was really an 'intended use case' question, was it something you get every season (within a couple specialties since you don't have infinite pen pals) or a bonus for staying focused for several season in a row. The intention seems to be it is an every season thing, so I can account for that in my tracker. Does study count Adventures? Writing about field work is totally something people do IRL, that is how I'm getting a significant amount of my Enigmatic Wisdom XP (about 5 per year).

@Salutor

Just investigative vs beating people up doesn't feel like enough of an opposite to me. Maybe try to work out some way in which your wife's past and attitude to it / future goals interact with yours? I also need to think a bit more about it being a maga - what are other peoples' thoughts?

They need to be a 'perfect symbolic compliment' which honestly I mostly took as having a happy successful marriage in the modern sense (finding True Love), but maybe i'm just being a romantic (don't tell my wife, lol). They use the example of opposites but it is not the only option. To elaborate my thoughts, he has a pretty garbage early life/apprenticeship, she is a probably trained and gauntleted member of a True Lineage. She is dedicated to upholding her ideals (ideals being the Code) he also upholds his ideals but explicitly by violating those same ideals (that is basically Path of Strife in a nut shell).
Basically they are the two sides of a buddy cop movie.

@Salutor

I'm not too fussed. If you take a normalised number, I'd say assume a roll of 6.

So 6+5 (aura we assume everywhere else)=11 XP? That works for me.

@Salutor

I think you've forgotten to actually make the change on the sheet posted on the previous page.

I can update, it is moving 10 from Parma to Magic Theory (they were working on getting up to the 3 to make a lab but ran short on time (25XP total in MT).

[Pralix]

Kyranos, the rhyme smith

Creation note: I wanted a functional, but unique grog, a redshirt, yes, but not one that is easily forgotten. He speaks Latin without having a virtue for it, which technically breaks the rules but makes it easier to use him (in game reason: hanging around magi for 10 or so years means he picked up bits)

Str 3, Sta 1, Com 1, Pre -2, Dex 1, qik 1, Per 0, Int 0
Puissant Single weapon, Free Expression, Inspirational
Busybody (magi), disfigured, lesser Fairie malediction (cannot utter a direct lie)

Background: Ugly young man from Greece who wanted to be a poet to win the love of a beautiful woman from his village. In a forest, he was offered a fairie bargain: to be given the talent to craft rhymes and inspire people in exchange for a "magical" (=fairie) compulsion to never lie.
He serves as a grog and likes making little rhymes of the magi and their adventures (that he doesn’t share with people outside the covenant, of course). Everyone knows his ditties to be true, and although magi do most certainly not care about the campfire tales of a grog, it still pushes everyone around him to be better people: Braver, more loyal, more generous…
His dream is to be taught writing so he can write books about the Magi and their deeds…

Age: 30

420xp: 45 early childhood + 25 years * 15xp
Romaic Greek (rhyming) 5
15 Animal Handling (hounds) 2
15 Athletics (lifting weight) 2
15 Awareness (guard duty) 2
15 Brawl (Fist) 2
30 Carouse (stories) 3
05 Chirurgy (binding wounds) 1
05 craft: armorer (repair) 1
05 etiquette (magi) 1
30 Folk Ken (magi) 3
15 Music (sing) 2
30 Order of hermes Lore (magi) 3
30 Latin (Magi) 3
15 Ride (horse) 2
15 survival (set up camp) 2
05 swim (icy water) 1
75 Single weapon (Heater shield) 5+2

Equipment: Heater shield, Partial Leather Scale, Long Sword
Soak: +1 (+4 when armored)
Long Sword and Heater: Init: +3, Attack +12, Defense + 13, Damage +9

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

So I have a habit of putting in way too much effort to make a bad joke, but I sort of have stuff to do today. But you have given me the idea for a Magical Companion, Ice Giant maybe, The Rime Smith. He crafts things of ice and uses his native magic to make them never melt and hard as steel.

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

I'm posting another copy of my sheet. I realized that I have a magical focus in dispelling and then put nothing into Perdo, I specialized secondarily in Rego-Corpus and relied on fire to hurt people rather than dove tailing it with my specialty.

Basically nothing was making sense with how I did my arts, redoing them. Sorry to waste the work on your first pass, most of it is unchanged or number for number swaps.

I didn't realize you could dispel Parma.

"[size=150]Kris ex Criamon[/size]
Age: 23 (year 1219)
[size=120]Characteristics:[/size]* Intelligence (INT): +1

• Perception (PER): +0
• Strength (STR): +0
• Stamina (STA): +2
• Presence (PRE): +0
• Communication (COM): +0
• Dexterity (DEX): +0
• Quickness (QIK): +2
  [size=120]Arts:[/size]
• Techniques: [list][*] Creo: 3
• Intellego: 2
• Muto: 2
• Perdo: 5
• Rego: 5
  [/:m]
  [] Forms: * Animal: 1
• Aquam: 1
• Aurum: 1
• Corpus: 5
• Herbem: 1
• Ignum: 1
• Imaginum: 1
• Mentum: 1
• Terram: 1
• Vim: 5
  [/:m][/list:u][size=120]Abilities:[/size] Artes Liberales: 1 (Arcane Texts)
• Athletics: 2 i[/i]
• Awareness: 1 i[/i]
• Bargain: 1 i[/i]
• Charm: 2 (Gathering Information)
• Concentration: 3 i[/i]
• Finesse: 1 i[/i]
• Guile: 2 i[/i]
• Latin: 4 (Arcane Texts)
• Latvian: 5 (Nursery Rymes)
• Legerdemain: 2 i[/i]
• Magic Theory: 2 (25XP)(Similar Spells)
• Parma Magica: 1 i[/i]
• Penetration: 3 i[/i]
• Stealth: 3 i[/i]
• Swim: 2 i[/i]
  Virtues: * The Enigma (Minor,Hermetic)
• The Gift (Special,Hermetic)
• Flawless Magic (Major,Hermetic)
• Affinity With Penetration (Minor,General)
• Affinity With Rego (Minor,Hermetic)
• Indecribable Face (Minor,General)
• Independant Study (Minor,General)
• Minor Magical Focus (Dispelling) (Minor,Hermetic)
• Fast Caster (Minor,Hermetic)
• Lightning Reflexes (Minor,General)

Flaws: * Magic Addiction (Major,Hermetic)

• Infamous Master (Minor,Hermetic)
• Inscribed Shadow (Minor,Supernatural)
• Fury (Major,Story)
• Humble (Minor,Personality)
• Lecherous (Major or Minor,Personality)
  "

Couple new spells in there, bolded.
Wither Assailant (Target loses control of one of their arms) 5
The Wound that Weeps 15
Curse of the Unruly Tongue 5
Endurance of the Berserkers (Dia variant) 15
Blink Stride (50 pace personal Teleport) 15
Bind Wounds 10
Lamp Without Flame 10
Opening the Intangible Tunnel 10
Unraveling the Fabric Everything 15
Unraveling the Fabric of Corpus 15
Demon's Eternal Oblivion 5

[JesseHeinig]

I'm working on a companion and two grogs; I'm just really busy and haven't had a couple hours to devote to sitting down and doing all the points.

[ironboundtome]

What does "Unraveling the Fabric Everything" spell do, as I thought it had to be (form) specific? Is it like Wind of Mundane Silence?

[MTKnife]

@Sir_Swindle

@MTKnife

If we discover that something threatens to break the setting

Ya, of course. That is just very subjective so I have to ask when something questionable comes up. I know generally the types of things to look for (see my post about feeding your familiar Vis so they can gain Vis Source Virtue).

Whether or not something breaks the setting is certainly debatable (hence "rule of thumb"), but I don't think it's truly subjective: the clear standard is that something breaks the setting if you can't explain why the number of people who do it is a lot smaller than the number of people who could do it. (That implies that the thing in question gives a significant advantage to characters--otherwise, the easy explanation is that people don't do it because it's not worth the effort to most of them.)

Stat boosters a re a straight up guideline. I could invent the spell and cast it in game (in any game) and I don't think any one would complain. Gift of Reason is even in the book (the lowest level one that you use on dull apprentices or previously cunning familiars). So I should be able to Buy,Trade, or Quest for it according to Salutor?

I think Salutor's answer is the right one, yes, but we'll have to figure out how big a cost should be paid.

I'm never saying I should be getting things for actual free (my plans in my tracker tend towards the most conservative assumption). But I've got Magic Theory generating Vis each year during Character Creation (or I could switch it to the accruing 5 pawns if it makes using it as currency more meaningful). I've got a Season marked out for adventuring every year (for selfish reasons I get +3 XP to adventures but they are still there) I could easily be doing favors for other Magi in exchange for Lab Texts or access to their library/guest lab for a time.

Could you clarify what you mean by "I've got Magic Theory generating Vis"? Are you referring to the Exposure XP's you get for lab work?

And what's the "for selfish reasons I get +3XP to adventures"?

@MTKnife

The issue you've got is that, in ArM5, an apprentice would not have the Parma skill. Period. You get some basic training in it, but it doesn't actually work until after the Gauntlet. Therefore, the backstory about the marched master who left behind a bunch of apprentices who all knew Parma doesn't work (in contrast to ArM4, where it would have worked just fine).

That was the main conceit of the story. The apprentices were not being trained as hermetic apprentices they were being trained as magical killers. Their training was mostly practicing killing each other with magic. They wouldn't survive without Parma and they wouldn't learn how to fight people with Parma if their 'classmates' didn't have Parma.

While it makes a good story, it gives the PC in question an advantage over other PC's. If the story were critical to the character concept and you couldn't accomplish the same thing by altering the story slightly, I'd say, go ahead and take the score of 2 in Parma. However, I think that you could achieve essentially the same impact on the character by telling a slightly different story that doesn't include the master's teaching Parma--just as I changed the story of Viola's apprentice slightly so that having Parma wasn't what put him under threat from her covenantmate.

@MTKnife

I think I intentionally left this vague, but stuff you've worked on in the past year is a good rule of thumb.

OK, that works, the book is a bit vague too. It was really an 'intended use case' question, was it something you get every season (within a couple specialties since you don't have infinite pen pals) or a bonus for staying focused for several season in a row. The intention seems to be it is an every season thing, so I can account for that in my tracker. Does study count Adventures? Writing about field work is totally something people do IRL, that is how I'm getting a significant amount of my Enigmatic Wisdom XP (about 5 per year).

If it's something you could learn from discussion, sure. Swordsmanship or woodcrafting, probably not.

Scott

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

@ironboundtome

What does "Unraveling the Fabric Everything" spell do, as I thought it had to be (form) specific? Is it like Wind of Mundane Silence?

Yes, it is the base effect of Wind of Mundane Silence put onto the chassis of the Unravel the Fabric spells. Dispells anything of level = (Level + Stress Die)/2. He has a level 15 version which means it turns off first mag spells and has a 50/50 shot against 2nd mag.

@MTKnife

Whether or not something breaks the setting is certainly debatable (hence "rule of thumb"), but I don't thin;k it's truly subjective: the clear standard is that something breaks the setting if you can't explain why the number of people who do it is a lot smaller than the number of people who could do it. (That implies that the thing in question gives a significant advantage to characters--otherwise, the easy explanation is that people don't do it because it's not worth the effort to most of them.)

If we are still on stat boosters, then I would say that the author of the books including published Magi's oversight isn't my problem (I looked at the first few magi in MAgi of Hermes). It's obvious and available. The subjective part is the expectation. If I go to Durenmar and I meet a bunch of 75-100 year old Bonisagus, I EXPECT them to have +5 Int and Com (maybe like a +1 per decade, the spells are expensive). They do research and write books, that is what they do, of course they have gotten some work done. Under your system I also expect their familiars to have Puissant and Affinity in Magic Theory and [strike]Independent Study[/strike] or Book Learner since they have infinite tractatus sitting in Durenmar.

@MTKnife

I think Salutor's answer is the right one, yes, but we'll have to figure out how big a cost should be paid.

Seems like basing it off the spell magnitude makes sense (0.5-3)*Magnitude depending on other factors. A lab text costs someone almost nothing to have reproduced and is only 1 season to copy (every magus can copy 100 levels per season).

@MTKnife

Could you clarify what you mean by "I've got Magic Theory generating Vis"? Are you referring to the Exposure XP's you get for lab work?

I'm entitled by the CC rules to 5*MT per year of Vis, sure it's a not to exceed but I've spent 4 total so far on my tracker, I'll spend a few more on a talisman right at the end. I would like to do things with those other Vis. Vis is money so Buying Lab texts, Better books than the CC Books for my personal Library, Paying to have rituals cast, These all seem like things that should be options in Post-Apprenticeship CC(we would arrange them to happen if I wanted it to happen in character).

The other note was that if me wanting to spend my 15 pawn/year on goods and services rather than lab work. I could go the the 5 stacking pawns/year option, I'm not going to not have what I need for personal use.

@MTKnife

And what's the "for selfish reasons I get +3XP to adventures"?

I took the virtue that gives extra XP for Practice and Adventure. Adventures are already really good at 10 XP so I have one on the calendar every year at 13 XP. I don't have anything in mind for them so I could say they were me doing a favor for someone or questing for some object I need. I was just explaining why I would bother since I don't think most people did that. 1/year was your hard cap, I could reduce it down to 3 in 4 years if (like Vis use) going to the hard cap is a bit too much.

@MTKnife

it gives the PC in question an advantage over other PC's.

It doesn't really. I swapped the points and immediately swapped his first teacher from being in Magic Theory to being in Parma (or maybe it was a book). He is never going to see action in his at Gauntlet state. But the reduced Parma points are still there in his reposted sheet.

@MTKnife

If it's something you could learn from discussion, sure. Swordsmanship or woodcrafting, probably not.

It's usually going to be Enigma or an Art. But this raises another question, am I not allowed to do correspondences on shuch things normally? If I were practicing in the yard I am gaining some level of insight and I can share that insight with someone else via a letter. It's no different at that point than sharing Magic Theory knowledge after setting up your lab or copying your notes and getting exposure. The game draws noline between book knowledge and personal experience. A swordsman that read a mythic level 12 tome on swordsmanship and one that spent 30 years in the army have the same skill so long as they have the same skill. Letters from one vs the other should be no more or less valid I would think.

Like I said this is purely theoretical. I have no particular interest in wood carving and I punch people with my impressive knowledge of riddles "What did they five fingers say to the face?" "SLAP!".

On that note can I choose fists as my meditation weapon? That was my original option but now with the presence of a name I'm leaning towards dagger (a kris, obviously). But it would be good to know what my options are.

[MTKnife]

@Sir_Swindle

If we are still on stat boosters, then I would say that the author of the books including published Magi's oversight isn't my problem (I looked at the first few magi in MAgi of Hermes). It's obvious and available. The subjective part is the expectation. If I go to Durenmar and I meet a bunch of 75-100 year old Bonisagus, I EXPECT them to have +5 Int and Com (maybe like a +1 per decade, the spells are expensive). They do rdesearch and write books, that is what they do, of course they have gotten some work done. Under your system I also expect their familiars to have Puissant and Affinity in Magic Theory and [strike]Independent Study[/strike] or Book Learner since they have infinite tractatus sitting in Durenmar.

My position, which I will attempt to maintain in this saga, is that the rules are the authors' attempt to implement the setting. Thus, if the rules produce an impact that doesn't match the setting, the oversight is in the rules, not the setting.

As for the familiars, as Salutor pointed out already, the amount of vis required to effect transformations is 5 times as high in this saga as it is in canon--that's going to tend to make the tricks you mention above not really worth the vis involved. This is an example of changing the canonical rule to make the rules fit the setting.

@Sir_Swindle

@MTKnife

I think Salutor's answer is the right one, yes, but we'll have to figure out how big a cost should be paid.

Seems like basing it off the spell magnitude makes sense (0.5-3)*Magnitude depending on other factors. A lab text costs someone almost nothing to have reproduced and is only 1 season to copy (every magus can copy 100 levels per season).

I don't think the relationship is going to be linear, since things get much, much harder (and therefore the magi capable of producing such effects get much rarer) as spell level increases.

You've also got to worry about a Warping Point unless the spell is designed specifically for you--and getting a spell custom-designed is going to be expensive.

@Sir_Swindle

@MTKnife

Could you clarify what you mean by "I've got Magic Theory generating Vis"? Are you referring to the Exposure XP's you get for lab work?

I'm entitled by the CC rules to 5*MT per year of Vis, sure it's a not to exceed but I've spent 4 total so far on my tracker, I'll spend a few more on a talisman right at the end. I would like to do things with those other Vis. Vis is money so Buying Lab texts, Better books than the CC Books for my personal Library, Paying to have rituals cast, These all seem like things that should be options in Post-Apprenticeship CC(we would arrange them to happen if I wanted it to happen in character).

Our version of the rule in question was written very carefully, to provide some scope for lab work but to avoid abuses. In one respect it's more restrictive than the canonical rule: you can't use the whole MT x 5 amount every year, or even every other year; the requirement that it be used in the lab, combined with the restriction that you can't get that much every year, greatly reduces the actual amount of vis received--and I'm not going to allow the vis to be used in some other way that increases the total received. On the other hand, our rule is also more generous than the canon, in that you have a second option, to take 5 pawns/year and do whatever you want with it, including saving it. If you want to trade vis for other stuff, you need to take the second option (our rule actually says it has to be saved or used immediately, but I don't think trading it is a problem).

Also, keep in mind that, while we're not going with the "vis has no value in Thebes" thing, vis does certainly have less value in Thebes than elsewhere, which is the trade-off you get in exchange for the higher auras.

The other note was that if me wanting to spend my 15 pawn/year on goods and services rather than lab work. I could go the the 5 stacking pawns/year option, I'm not going to not have what I need for personal use.

All the other magi in the saga were able to make do with that amount of vis, and I don't think any of them even had to trade any.

@Sir_Swindle

@MTKnife

And what's the "for selfish reasons I get +3XP to adventures"?

I took the virtue that gives extra XP for Practice and Adventure. Adventures are already really good at 10 XP so I have one on the calendar every year at 13 XP. I don't have anything in mind for them so I could say they were me doing a favor for someone or questing for some object I need. I was just explaining why I would bother since I don't think most people did that. 1/year was your hard cap, I could reduce it down to 3 in 4 years if (like Vis use) going to the hard cap is a bit too much.

I've got no problem with your having the full 1 story/year--it's still nowhere near as efficient as book study. It's true it allows you to learn stuff you couldn't learn otherwise, but there's a very real cost.

On a final note, I want to avoid debates: even if I ultimately agree with you, the amount of time we've both wasted in getting to that point is not worth what we gain. And the older I get, the more I value my time.

Scott

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

@MTKnife

I don't think the relationship is going to be linear, since things get much, much harder (and therefore the magi capable of producing such effects get much rarer) as spell level increases.

That's why I posted it as a range. I understand where you are coming from.

@MTKnife

You've also got to worry about a Warping Point unless the spell is designed specifically for you--and getting a spell custom-designed is going to be expensive.

It's like 1 warping point per ritual (only the +4 and +5 actually I think).

@MTKnife

to take 5 pawns/year and do whatever you want with it, including saving it. If you want to trade vis for other stuff, you need to take the second option (our rule actually says it has to be saved or used immediately, but I don't think trading it is a problem).

That is what I was offering to do.

@MTKnife

All the other magi in the saga were able to make do with that amount of vis, and I don't think any of them even had to trade any.

That was what I was saying. I will have plenty of Vis for my enchanting projects on only 5 per year.

@MTKnife

I've got no problem with your having the full 1 story/year--it's still nowhere near as efficient as book study. It's true it allows you to learn stuff you couldn't learn otherwise, but there's a very real cost.

The books are only Q10, adventures for me are Q13. Buying better books so studying them is more efficient is one of the things I'd like to do.

On a final note, I want to avoid debates: even if I ultimately agree with you, the amount of time we've both wasted in getting to that point is not worth what we gain. And the older I get, the more I value my time.

I've been dropping points if they aren't going to add anything. I've been getting a bit better at that with age.

[Salutor]

@Pralix

Creation note: I wanted a functional, but unique grog, a redshirt, yes, but not one that is easily forgotten. He speaks Latin without having a virtue for it, which technically breaks the rules but makes it easier to use him (in game reason: hanging around magi for 10 or so years means he picked up bits)

Hanging around with magi for the last decade feels more like a reason to have a virtue representing this (and giving him access to the abilities), rather than a reason he doesn't need it. He also doesn't have anything allowing him to take martial abilities - I'd suggest dropping Puissant Single Weapon and taking Custos (which gives him access to both Latin and Martial Abilities), or if you don't want the implied relative importance for him, Turb Trained (page 76 of Grogs - basically Custos, but only allowing martial + Latin rather than Martial or Academic or Arcane + Latin).

I think he's missing 100 xp? I make him as only having 320 xp rather than 420.

I'd suggest switching down to a Standard rather than Expensive weapon. You could boost the armour a bit to compensate, though.

Edit to add: I do like the general concept of the grog.

[Salutor]

@Sir_Swindle

Kris ex Criamon
Age: 27 (year 1234)
Characteristics:* Intelligence (INT): +3

• Perception (PER): +0
• Strength (STR): +0
• Stamina (STA): +2
• Presence (PRE): +0
• Communication (COM): +0
• Dexterity (DEX): +0
• Quickness (QIK): +2

I think you've got 12 rather than 7 points of characteristics there? Also, his age and year are still playing up.

@Sir_Swindle

Yes, it is the base effect of Wind of Mundane Silence put onto the chassis of the Unravel the Fabric spells. Dispells anything of level = (Level + Stress Die)/2. He has a level 15 version which means it turns off first mag spells and has a 50/50 shot against 2nd mag.

By "put onto the chassis of Unravel the Fabric spells", do you mean it is Tar Ind, Range Voice rather than Tar: Room? If so, you should have an extra couple of magnitudes to play with - it would dispell anything of level (Level + 2 mags + Stress die)/2 (i.e. for a level 15 spell, would reliably get level 10 and sometimes level 15 spells), rather than (Level + stress die)/2.

Before you finalise the character, please can you provide a detailed breakdown of all your new spells (like the ones in the book - so TeFo Level, description of exactly what the effect is, plus a breakdown of how the level was reached).

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

@Salutor

I think you've got 12 rather than 7 points of characteristics there? Also, his age and year are still playing up.

Huh, yup that's right. Will fix.

That would be good if the spell guideline works that way. I don't think that is right. It should be basically half as effective as the form specific unravels.

I can post full descriptions. Most of them are based off book spells so they shouldn't be too controversial.

[MTKnife]

@Sir_Swindle

@MTKnife

You've also got to worry about a Warping Point unless the spell is designed specifically for you--and getting a spell custom-designed is going to be expensive.

It's like 1 warping point per ritual (only the +4 and +5 actually I think).

I just checked, and "powerful effect" is explicitly defined as "subjective", but anything level 30 or higher automatically qualifies--and the lowest level for a spell of that type (max characteristic 0, range Pers) is 30. One point of warping may not seem like a lot, but, in the Hermetic case, it amounts to trading a year or so of your (admittedly long) life for a marginal bonus in the lab (for Int) or to spellcasting rolls (for Sta). And that, honestly, may be one big reason it's not that common. Remember, Int isn't nearly as useful to a magus as it was under ArM4. (Characteristics have a considerably larger impact for mundanes, whose relevant totals are much lower than Hermetic spellcasting or lab totals.)

@Sir_Swindle

I've been dropping points if they aren't going to add anything. I've been getting a bit better at that with age.

Heh. You and me both.

Scott

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

@MTKnife

I just checked, and "powerful effect" is explicitly defined as "subjective", but anything level 30 or higher automatically qualifies--and the lowest level for a spell of that type (max characteristic 0, range Pers) is 30. One point of warping may not seem like a lot, but, in the Hermetic case, it amounts to trading a year or so of your (admittedly long) life for a marginal bonus in the lab (for Int) or to spellcasting rolls (for Sta). And that, honestly, may be one big reason it's not that common. Remember, Int isn't nearly as useful to a magus as it was under ArM4. (Characteristics have a considerably larger impact for mundanes, whose relevant totals are much lower than Hermetic spellcasting or lab totals.)

You are correct, I was thinking of the level of required-by-level rituals.

I suppose some of that would depend on the social circles a magus travels in. I mentioned Bonisagus specifically because they are sort of constantly vying for status with one another. That Marginal bonus is still a bonus. It is really a bigger deal for books where you are adding your comm directly so it's a 5-20% increase.

Point made on why a magus might not get a ritual done on him. I would still like to have them done or buy the rituals to do it myself. So I still need a cost figured out at some point. +2 to quick casting is fairly likely to be the difference between life and death.

[MTKnife]

Do you need a price figured out for character creation, or is this something for down the road?

Scott

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

I've been talking about spending my 5 vis per year on it potentially. So during cc if possible.

[Pralix]

Kyranos, the rhyme smith

Creation note: Third version. Age increased to 30 (again). Single Weapon reduced to 6. Attack and Defense reduced accordingly. 50xp sunk into Kipchak language

Str 3, Sta 1, Com 1, Pre -2, Dex 1, qik 1, Per 0, Int 0
Cuesots, Free Expression, Inspirational
Busybody (magi), disfigured, lesser Fairie malediction (cannot utter a direct lie)

Background: Ugly young man from Greece who wanted to be a poet to win the love of a beautiful woman from his village. In a forest, he was offered a fairie bargain: to be given the talent to craft rhymes and inspire people in exchange for a "magical" (=fairie) compulsion to never lie.
He serves as a grog and likes making little rhymes of the magi and their adventures (that he doesn’t share with people outside the covenant, of course). Everyone knows his ditties to be true, and although magi do most certainly not care about the campfire tales of a grog, it still pushes everyone around him to be better people: Braver, more loyal, more generous…

Age: 30

420xp: 45 early childhood + 25 years * 15xp
Romaic Greek (rhyming) 5
15 Animal Handling (hounds) 2
15 Athletics (lifting weight) 2
15 Awareness (guard duty) 2
15 Brawl (Fist) 2
30 Carouse (stories) 3
05 Chirurgy (binding wounds) 1
05 craft: armorer (repair) 1
05 etiquette (magi) 1
30 Folk Ken (magi) 3
15 Music (sing) 2
50 Order of hermes Lore (magi) 4
30 Latin (Magi) 3
15 Ride (horse) 2
15 survival (set up camp) 2
05 swim (icy water) 1
105 Single weapon (Heater shield) 6
50 Living Language Kipchak (rhymes)

Equipment: Heater shield, Full Leather Scale (don't wear iron around fairies), Short Sword
Soak: +1 (+4 usually partially armored,+6 when fully armored)
Long Sword and Heater: Init: +3, Attack +10, Defense + 12, Damage +8
Encumbrance: 0 (partially armored), 2 (fully armored)

[Salutor]

@Pralix

140 Single weapon (Heater shield) 7

I think you're now breaching the ability by age limit - without an affinity you can't take level 6 until you hit 30, let alone 7.

May be make him a year older to get to 6, and reassign the extra xp?

[Sir_Swindle1 (Sir_Swindle)]

Wither Assailant
ReCo 5
Tar: Individual, Range: Voice, Duration: Diameter
Target loses control of one of their arms. Letting it fall uselessly to their side for two minutes.
(Base 2, +1 Dia, +2 voice, +0 ind)

Endurance of the Berserkers
ReCo 15
Tar: Individual, Range: Personal, Duration: Diameter
Your body acts as though it were unwounded and unfatigued for two minutes. You must still track fatigue levels and will fall unconcious if you run out of fatigue. A character under the influence of this spell does not risk worsening wounds while in combat (per normal). Concecutive castings delay the end of the spell but the body can only handle Size+2 consecutive castings.
(Base 10, +1 Dia, +0 Pers, +0 Ind)

Blink Stride
ReCo 15
Tar: Individual, Range: Personal, Duration: Momentary
You teleport up to 50 paces away to anywhere you can see or have an arcane connection. An Int+Finesse roll 9+ is required to appear without issue. Your arrival goes slightly awry on a failure and you risk being injured on a botch.
(Base 15, +0 Mom, +0 Pers, +0 Ind)

Unraveling the Fabric Everything
PeVi 15
Tar: Individual, Range: Voice, Duration: Momentary
This spell will cancel the effects of any one spell whose level is less than or equal to half of (Spell Level +10+Stress Die [no botch]). or specifically for this version (25+Stress Die [no botch])/2. For purposes of this spell the Parma Magica is a spell effect of level Rank X 5.
(Base 5, +0 Mom, +2 Voice, +0 Ind)

So yes, Always mag 2 usually mag 3