Characters development discussions

Hm, I need to take a look at HoH: MC. Wasn’t expecting to use that for a Bonisagus, even as a goal, but I appreciate the advice, doubly so as I’ve not played with MC before.
Apart from a magical focus to make him a seeker with an edge, I was thinking of including Affinity W/ Intellego, Affinity and Deft Form for Herbam or Terram. Faerie Blood could go if it’ll cause a problem, though that’d be surprising, as I’d have thought half of Merinita would have had it.

Yes. Just out of Gauntlet. Core book stuff as much as possible. If something from other sourcebooks is really essential for your character concept, we can talk about it.

For spells, try using canon spells. Again, a minor change or a custom design can be discussed. But the availability of those is based on your master's need for such a spell, not yours (unless it is really low level and you could have invented it yourself in a season or two). That means a R:Per variant of Shape of the Woodland Prowler just to save 5 levels of spells and make it within your ability to learn would not be approved. But the same variant, if you have the Short-Ranged Magic flaw (probably passed down from your pater) would probably be accepted.

In short, canon spells from the core book are pre-approved (including the Wizard's Communion variant for ritual spells). Canon spells from different sourcebooks, variants and custom-designed spells must be discussed and approved on a case-by-case basis.

Enemies is a Major Story flaw. That means it will be central to the stories being told about your character. In this case, it would be a small number of Flambeau magi who want to see you humiliated, disgraced and perhaps even dead. We would just need to come up with the reason why they hate you so much. Just leaving your first master, in itself, would not be enough. The way you did may have been particularly disgraceful or damaging, such as deserting him during a battle and causing his death.

I don't see the flaw as being too disruptive to the game. But do you want those enemies to be central in many of your stories?

The only thing outside of core I was thinking of was Gild-trained. Or will that happen in-game?

Faerie Blood isn't a problem. It just means that, somewhere in your past, either you or your parents were significantly exposed to faeries.

It is simply that the Nature Lore branch of mysteries (the original Merinita mysteries) are often put into opposition with (or suborned by) the Faerie Magic branch introduced by Quendalon. Having Faerie Blood would put you closer to the second one. In the end, it all depends on what your character goals are. Discover what happened to House Merinita twenty years ago? Or revive the pre-Quendalon Merinita tradition?

That one is pretty much the same thing as Skilled Parens in effect, so I don't see a problem with it.

When you build decide on Abilities, Arts and spells, I would suggest you make it clear which xp is from what life stage (Childhood, Early Life, Apprenticeship). That makes it easier for me to double-check the allocation.

In your case apprenticeship should be split to reflect which of your masters taught you what.

Finished the writeup. It ended up being quite long, so sharing via link for now if that's ok.

The nature mysteries would probably be more appealing, but he might not even be aware of them at this point. Finding out about the disappearance of an entire House is the current goal; if pursuit of that leads to learning of the nature mystery path, that might be quite interesting, and become a second goal.

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Number-wise, everything seems correct.

There is perhaps 1 point of excess Flaws, and taking 2 Major Hermetic Flaws, while not specifically forbidden in the Core book, is frowned upon. In game, many consider it a Hermetic crime to inflict 2 Major Hermetic Flaws on an apprentice. That could be fixed.

However... and don't take this too harshly... I do not like the way the character is designed.

Everything seems to be put together with a bunch of virtues and flaws to maximize power by optimizing xp expenditure. You end up with a character that is bland and lackluster. A brute-force approach, if you will.

And a character that also makes no sense from a in-game and in-character perspective.

Childhood is ok. There isn't much room there for abuse. :wink:

Early Life abilities are absurd. You obviously took Covenant Upbringing to that you could cram Latin there and save yourself from spending the xp during apprenticeship. You would have me believe that all his time as a child (age 6 to 12) was pretty much spent learning Latin and beekeeping? A child with the Reckless flaw? :astonished:

Second, during the first stage of his apprenticeship (age 13 to 21, so 9 years), while he was under the tutelage of a Flambeau magus, you cram a lot of experience into a single Ability, this time Magic Theory. You give him an Affinity with that to maximize the score. House Flambeau is not known for its theoricians and a typical Flambeau starts with a score of 3 or 4. You describe his pater as a magus obsessed with fighting in the Reconquista. That does not sound like someone who would want or allow his apprentice to spend so much time studying Magic Theory.

Then you have him spend the rest of his xp in Cr, Ig and Au, so that he can learned the 2 most powerful highest-damage combat spells in the core book. Spells which he can barely cast (meaning Fatigue every time) and which will have no penetration (against creatures with Might). No lesser combat spells, no defensive spells, no utility spells. An egg with a sledgehammer.

You then have him fleeing from his first pater's covenant, and somehow make his way to Durenmar. First time he gets out of a covenant, no social skill to speak of, making his way several hundred miles. Almost severing his leg in an accident but being able to heal himself (He has no healing spell; sure he can spont Bind Wounds twice a day, but suffering from the wound penalties as he does so and often in foreign auras, so for how long? Plus, he has Fragile Constitution.) enough to keep traveling north, then crossing the Black Forest by himself (A notoriously dangerous place that experienced woodsmen avoid due to the dark faeries who live there. Sure he has high-damage spells, but no penetration so no use against faeries.) and finding Durenmar. All the while, the magi of Bentalone do nothing to find and recover him (with all the gold that he stole from them), nor inform his master that he was missing. (Finding a runaway apprentice is trivial with an arcane connection, something that is easy to find since you lived there.)

Now, having reached Durenmar, he convinces a Bonisagus there to take him as an apprentice by dazzling him with his knowledge of Magic Theory and bribing him with vis (which would be considered stolen from his master - an apprentice is property and so is the raw vis produced by his vis source). Then he spends the last few years of his apprenticeship being taught spells that make little sense for a Bonisagus from Durenmar. BTW, six years is not enough time for him to gain the Bonisagus House virtue. (The sourcebook Apprentices explains that it takes 10 seasons of teaching (meaning 10 years of apprenticeship) by the master to do that.)

Ok, enough already! :wink:

Again, sorry if this seems harsh. The concept is interesting, but I think you need to rework its execution before we have a playable, interesting and believable character. Do not despair! :laughing:

I think it would probably be best if I just went back to the drawing board. I will think for a bit and come back to this with a new concept.

Been busy doing some reworking myself.
Draft virtues, flaws and backstory below.

Flaws

Twilight prone major hermetic
Plagued by Supernatural Entity (ghost of Mendalus?) major, story
Mentor, minor, story
Higher Purpose (Investigate what happened to House Merinita for the good of the Order which is incomplete without a thirteenth House, and rescue, restore or even replace House Merinita with the original version of themselves?)
Driven minor personality (Recover the original Merinita nature mysteries and establish a means to preserve them?)
Small frame or Obese?

Virtues (The Gift, Hermetic magus, puissant magic theory)

Minor magical focus (wood).
Affinity, Herbam
Affinity, Intellego
Skilled Parens
Well Travelled
Cautious Sorceror
Deft Form, Herbam
Deft Form, Mentem
Mastered spells
Affinity (Parma Magica)

Herman lived his first years as an apprentice routinely, content to follow his parens’ interest in Herbam magics, especially travelling to find old and/ or magical trees to converse with. Everything turned about a single twilight episode however. When the lad awoke, he had a ghostly companion along with his revealed Twlight susceptibility. His concerned and dutiful parens added to his training the practices of caution and spell mastery to compensate for the susceptibility, and also taught what Mentem he could as a precaution. At the same time, he also investigated the ghost, because if a ghost returned from Twilight there was a possibility that it was both magical in nature (it was) and a lost magus (as it claimed to be). Research revealed that such a magus had been lost to twilight years before. The ghost seemed willing to assist in his training, and remarkably agreed to cooperate with his parens’ planned tuition so long as the boy was an apprentice. With two tutors, he learned fast.

Nearing the end of his apprenticeship, Herman became one of those rare students who worked out the essentials of invoking the Parma Magica. Dutifully, he owned up and requested the Oath at once. This done, the ghost tried to persuade him to leave Durenmar at once, but he and his parens wished to complete his training, before sitting a proper Bonisagus gauntlet. In the end, he spent his final seasons under his parens’ Parma, being drilled in its use and further in Mentem for his own protection. However he had also conversed with the ghost, and concluded that they had some aims and interests in common. The result is a rather curious working relationship, with which neither his parens nor the ghost was entirely content, but it seems to be workable so far.

I’m aware that two story flaws is somewhat frowned upon, but since they relate to aspects of the same major presence in the character’s life, I thought you might be ok with it.
There is some potential for overlap between the higher purpose (preserve the Order by restoring A 13th house) and the driven (recover and preserve mysteries), although it’s assumed that the ghost (assumed to be a follower of either Merinita or Mendalus) would have differing views on the various potential resolutions. Basically, the ghost is a mentor with an agenda related to the nature mysteries.
I’m also aware that affinity (and puissant which was a possible alternative) are not usually applied to Parma Magica, but they don’t seem to be forbidden that I’ve found; please let me know if the suggested justification is inadequate.

In previous editions, it used to be possible to begin play with a few Twilight points, which would obviously suit this backstory. If there is such a flaw, it apparently isn’t in the Core book; any advice?

I’ve also assumed that Mentem is the appropriate Art for countering or resisting ghosts, even ones affiliated to the Magical Realm. If not, more rework needed!

The problem here is that you have basically 4 flaws that are about the same thing. All those flaws are there to driven you to instigate stories about various aspects of House Merinita (its disappearance and its Mysteries).

A story flaw in only a flaw when it drives you into stories that your character would otherwise have no interest in (i.e. an external impetus). A personality flaw will point your character in a direction he wants to follow (i.e. an internal impetus). When they point in the same direction, one of them isn't a flaw anymore. When several flaws have the same target, it weakens their value.

It also makes your character more unidimensional, which is far from ideal to create interesting and varied stories.

On the side of virtues, I also notice a similar trend. Five of your character's virtues provide you with more xp. That gives you more initial power (in the form of higher abilities, Arts and mastered spells), but over time this robs you of the opportunity to play a character who is more colorful.

It is a bit strange for a magus who seems otherwise specialized with wood to have Deft Mentem. That seems outside of his interests.

Note that the Minor Magical Focus with wood only affects that: wood. It will provide no bonus to communicate with trees, for example. That would be a Major Focus with trees.

There's the Flaw Warped by Magic in Grogs, p. 85

Yes, but Warped by Magic is for grogs. It gives an extra Minor flaw as a result of accumulating at least 5 warping points.

Since magi do not get a minor flaw as a result of warping, it wouldn't be balanced for them.

Unless you say that the warping was received before his Arts were opened, in which case you are simply tacking on a few warping points unto another minor flaw that the character has.

Thus, what I'm saying is that a few warping points by themselves are not enough to warrant a minor flaw, but you are free to take a few warping points if it makes sense for your character. They just don't count as a flaw.

@Arthur Just to let you know, I am still here. Contemplating an idea for an academician who wants to find a way to make a Hermetic university work (mainly involving magical research about counteracting the effects of the gift, and perhaps about why Arts can only be taught one-on-one), as well as making hermetic theory consistent with Aristotle. Haven't completely settled on that yet, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it

My main concern is how that would work in a covenant that is set far from learning centers (both Hermetic and mundane). Universities (and even colleges) are very much an urban concept. Translating that concept into an Hermetic context would work well into a large covenant, or at least one where people in gather regularly. Studying the effects of the Gift would require having access to many people with said Gift. Again, a large covenant would work better for that.

If this saga was centered at Durenmar or Fengheld, or in an Order of Hermes where cooperation was easy between magi, it would be a good magus concept to play.

But the basis of this saga is that the various Houses of the Order have trouble trusting each other, with covenants competing for vis sources. Your covenant is literally located in a cave, outside the regular travel routes, and its magi are seen as the less desirable members of House Bonisagus. Have you thought about how that would affect your character's goals? It may still be interesting to see him struggle with so many problems, but will you enjoy that?

Well, it coincides with another problem I was trying to work out, which is why he had to be in a remote covenant instead of being in said larger covenants.

It might be interesting if he were a brilliant researcher but a terrible writer, and rubbish as a teacher, so nobody takes him seriously and he'll never be able to put his own ideas into practice. Though that does raise the issue of why he was taken as an apprentice (ie would a Bonisagus apprentice someone who was Incomprehensible?)

That might actually be a Delusion (or Obsession), for he does not have the talents required to achieve those goals.

Would you enjoy playing such a character? His unachievable goals mean you would spend quite a bit of his time pursuing activities to would provide little in the way of tangible results.