Characters development discussions

I’m sorry to hear this too; I was hoping for an opportunity to return the favours of your advice to me!
I hope you find what you’re looking for.

High time I showed you the work in progress. (Excuse formatting, been away from home and working on a tablet!) I’ve tried to make the working as clear as possible.

Most Specialisations, Languages and Area Lore locales TBC, also family tree if that’s important.
Characteristics
Free: Int+3, Sta+1
Balanced: Per+2, Qik-3, Pre+1, Com+2, Dex+0, Str+0

Personality: Frustrated +3, Patient +1, Determined +2
Reputation: Disruptive conspiracy theorist 4 (Order of Hermes)

Flaws

Twilight prone major hermetic
Plagued by Supernatural Entity (ghost of a Mendalus’ follower?) major, story (Recover the original Merinita nature mysteries and establish a means to preserve them?)
Driven/ Higher Purpose (Investigate what happened to House Merinita for the good of the Order which is incomplete without a thirteenth House, and rescue/restore if possible or even replace House Merinita with the original version of themselves?)
Infamous (witters on about House Merinita, thinks declining vis may be a plot too) - maybe Obsessed covers this better?
Slow caster (goes with Cautious Sorceror)
Visions (minor, story)

Virtues (The Gift, Hermetic magus, puissant magic theory)
Major magical focus (trees)
Affinity, Herbam
Skilled Parens
Well Travelled
Cautious Sorceror
Premonitions
Mastered spells
Social contacts (mundane and mystic forest-dwellers, met while traveling; faeries, foresters with supernatural virtues, cunning-folk, Herbam magi, peregrinatores…)

Early Childhood:

Second son of a successful carpenter, so the family moved every year or so to substantial jobs, usually on Rhine barges operated by Flemish barge men. Parents were slightly concerned by his daydreaming, imaginary friends, and so forth, but recognised a familial talent in him. His father had some similar visions, and his uncle is a timber merchant with Wilderness Sense and a sense for good trees to choose.

Later childhood (5 years)

Parents became increasingly worried as daydreams (visions) continued, with occasional premonitions now proved accurate, but beneficial when heeded. As family members belonged to guilds, there was some access to basic literacy.

Apprenticeship

Parents’ efforts to keep visions within the family were dealt a blow when the child cheerfully prattled in church about fire and destruction, and the following day a nearby inn burned down. Locals began to regard them with distrust, exacerbated by the budding effects of the Gift. Luckily, their circumstances made it feasible to relocate, but they realised something similar could happen again at any time. Then a stranger came calling, having followed rumours of the family lineage and its gifts, to explain that their son was not cursed but Gifted, that this could be harnessed to build a life for him, and they believed his explanation and sincerity completely once he extended his Parma to cover them. He was promptly apprenticed.

His parens travelled at times, mostly within the Rhine Tribunal, tending to visit many forests and remote locations in the course of his work, but he also used this time to understand his apprentice’s abilities, and try to channel his unrealised potential in Hermetic ways.

After hearing of many theories but few investigative accomplishments relating to the disappearance of House Merinita, he began to turn ideas over in his mind. What gnawed most though, was that an entire hermetic House had gone missing, and nobody seemed interested. Considering the implied duty to protect the Order which he felt each magus should accept, he simply could not justify inaction. After passing his gauntlet, he naively tabled a motion for debate at the same tribunal. Such a move from a newly-gauntleted magus would normally have been ignored, but for some reason his motion was accepted for debate. He wanted to hear senior magi justify their inaction before their peers (and fail because all they actually felt on the matter was “I’m all right, Jack”); what he got was a few vaguely contemptuous remarks about age, wisdom and commitments he’d understand with more experience. Mention of any possible link to declining vis supplies was barred, as he’d omitted this aspect from his motion for fear of its being overlong. In mounting frustration, he accused the Tribunal at large of failing to look after its own, violating the spirit of the Oath by failing to regard what had happened as a loss of power by the Order as a whole, let alone a matter of importance, and stormed out.

He afterwards realised that his motion had been allowed with the intention of embarrassing his parens in pursuit of an old grudge, and he was mortified to have accomplished exactly that, and to have tarred his own reputation seemingly for life into the bargain (Infamous). His parens wearily explained that if he’d wanted to change minds it would have needed time and patience, rather than a frontal assault, but now nobody would take him seriously for years to come. He would simply have to work by himself. His parens had done much the same since the initial grudge arose, lacking much interest in political gamesmanship.

His birth name is Herrman, his Hermetic name is Gereon, after an obscure saint whose obstinacy appealed to him.

Early Childhood + Later childhood (5 years) + Apprenticeship + Well Travelled: 45 + 75 +120 + 50

Used 30 of Skilled Parens xp as marked

Area Lore (Rhineland) 5 + 0 +0+0
Area Lore (Rhein Tribunal) (forests) 0+0+0+15
Area Lore (Durenmar) (library) 0+0+0+5
Area Lore (Danube valley) 0+0+0+5
Athletics 5 + 0 + 0
Awareness 5 + 10 + 0
Bargain 0 + 5 + 0
Brawl 5 + 0 + 0
Carouse 0+0+0+5
Concentration 0 + 0 + 5
Craft carpentry 0 + 5 + 0
Etiquette 0 + 5 + 0 +10
Folk Ken 5 + 10 + 0
Guile 0 + 0 + 0 + 5
Intrigue 0 + 5 + 0
Living Lang. German (Rhineland) 75 + 0 + 0
Living Lang. Flemish (nautical terms) 5 + 0 + 0
Living Lang. Latin (Hermetic terms) 0+0+50
Living Lang. French 0+0+0+5
Medicine 5 (skilled Parens)
Organisation (Order of Hermes) lore 0 + 0 + 5
Profession Scribe 0 + 5 + 0
Stealth 5 + 0 + 0
Survival 5 + 10 + 0
Swim 5 + 0 + 0
Artes Liberales 0 + 0 + 5
Philosphiae 0 + 0 + 5
Code of Hermes 0 + 0 + 5
Magic Realm Lore 0 + 0 + 5
Faerie Realm Lore 5 (Skilled Parens)
Finesse 0 + 0 + 5
Magic Theory 0+0+30 +20 (skilled Parens)
Parma Magica 0 + 0 + 5
Penetration 0 + 0 + 5
Great Weapon 0 + 0 + 5
Premonitions 5 + 10 + 0

Arts and Spells

120 apprenticeship xp +30 skilled Parens xp
150 spell levels likewise
Int 3 + MT 4 = max. spell level Te+Fo+7

He 52 (78) 12
In 45 9
Im 1
Te 1
Mu 15 5
Re 15 5
Vi 21 6

Spells (and Mastery abilities)
CrHe10 Trap of the Entwining Vines - Multi, Fast
InHe10 Intuition of the Forest
InHe25 Converse with Plant and Tree - Penetration
MuHe10 Piercing Shaft of Wood - Multi
ReHe15 Strike of the Angered Branch - Fast
ReIm10 The Wizards Sidestep - Fast
MuTe10 Supple Iron and Rigid Rope - Fast
ReTe10 Trackless Step - Multi
InVi20 Piercing the (Realm) Veil
MuIm10 Aura of Ennobled Presence - Fast
ReVi 20(gen) Circular Ward against Magic Spirits
150

Edit: Corrected XP error(!) in later childhood.

Hi all, did not want to interrupt Big Bad John's character discussion and feedback, but wanted to ask some Saga questions, after reading most of the House Loyalty sub forum, and this seemed the most appropriate spot.

•I understand the Library rules as far as they go, but..how is the initial score achieved? Was considering a Magus author concept, but would like to know more. If a Magus writes most/all of the books on the subject in that Library, can that same Magus still study the same subject that they contributed?
Did not see a Magic Theory score for the Library, was that deliberate?
Also, wasn't clear on the Quality discussion, not sure if it has changed given the new Library rules. is Q the usual, 6+Com, and there are up to 3 levels of Refinement possible (at +2Q a pop).

•Are there more specific guidelines for customizing/improving Labs? In a Bonisagus-only Saga might be useful to know! Are there any guidelines for research? I ask, since Covenants and TL seem to be at best inspirational for this Saga, rather than canon.

•What is the Aegis situation in these troubled times? Does the Covenant have someone who can cast it, and more importantly, is there any vis to do so, even on an off and on basis?

•How much vis would a Personal vis source Virtue produce?

•Do Redcaps still exist? Are they in regular contact, or is this now a once in 10 years thing? How about Tribunals?

More questions to come, and thanks in advance!

Welcome to the party, Ignes Festivus!

I believe this is addressed in the first post of the recruitment thread:
“ There are rumors that there the number of Mercere magi is declining, but the redcap network is still strong.”

For what it may be worth:
My conspiracy theorist concept isn’t paying much heed to this point, since to him it’s not substantiated. He’s not even convinced that the decline in vis availability is linked with the Merinita mystery, but given the indirect link via levels of Fae activity & magic in general he reckons it’s a possibility. He’s rather hoping that finding out what happened to House Merinita would clarify this possibility. If there is a common thread behind two or three of these threats, uncovering it may be vital to the survival of the Order.
The whole Merinita nature mystery angle is interesting to him personally, but the mere possibility of an existential threat to the Order is, he reckons, Really Important, because anything that can remove one House could potentially remove another… and another…

Thanks so much! Glad to have the possibility of actual play!

I believe this is addressed in the first post of the recruitment thread:
“ There are rumors that there the number of Mercere magi is declining, but the redcap network is still strong.”

Understood! Still, it seems like there might have been some iterations on the background of the Saga as it was being discussed with the first batch of players, so I wanted to understand what was the latest.

I like the conspiracy theorist angle! I mean, it makes a whole lot of sense to be worried, not only about the fate of the Merinita, but why the rest of the Order (or at least the Bonisagus!) are so blasé about it.

I am on vacation this week, so not spending much time in front of a computer. I will try to answer all the recent questions if I get the time. :sunglasses:

Hope you have a great time!

Well that was embarrassing. Finally got to transcribe my draft build into a spreadsheet, and found I’d got part of the arithmetic wrong, now edited above.

I'll try to comment and review.

Characteristics: There's a slight imbalance there under the Balanced part. You have 1 too many points (one stat at -3 balances 2 stats at +2, so Pre +1 is not balanced by anything).

Flaws: Visions is problematic, since the character already has another Story flaw. The fact that it is also a Supernatural flaw means it is linked to a specific Realm, but it still counts as a Story flaw. It would be better if you selected a different flaw. You could still keep it in the background, but the flaw was morphed into something else when his Arts were opened by his pater. Premonitions is certainly a possibility. Another possibility would be to switch his Affinity to Intellego (instead of Herbam). Invert the scores in those Arts and your spells would still work.

Virtues: I still find Mastered Spells to be a strange selection for this magus. This is often more useful to a combat magus. There are other virtues that would make more sense for this magus, but if that's your call I can live with it.

Abilities: Taking Profession: Scribe during early childhood is borderline. Strange that he learned more Survival than Craft (his father's craft) during his years before apprenticeship. Survival would make more sense during apprenticeship since your pater's traveling to forests and remote locations. And overall your selection of abilities is a bit scattered, which weakens the build somewhat. A bit more focus would be beneficial. It could even make selecting the Mastered Spells virtue unnecessary, as it doesn't take many xp to master a few essential spells.

Spells: Selection could be refined, much like for Abilities. Here's a few thoughts.

  • You took at least 4 spells aimed at combat, which is not very efficient.
  • Some spells linked to the Faerie realm would make sense if you wish to investigate the disappearance of House Merinita. This could mean having 2 version of some of your spells, like Piercing the (Realm) Veil (for both Magic and Faerie).
  • Being able to pierce faerie illusions would be useful (Discern the Images of Turth and Falsehood).
  • Mastering Aura of Ennobled Presence for fast casting is not very useful, since fast-casting requires the use of bold gestures and firm voice (ArM5 p.85).
  • Multicasting Trackless Steps means maintaining concentration on several spells at the same time, which is quite hard, so that is not so useful.
  • Overall, Fast Casting benefits from high Finesse and Qik scores, which your character does not have. It's hard to beat an opponent's Initiative total with your Qickness + Finesse + Stress die with Quickness -3 and Finesse 1. So that's a whole lot of Mastery xp spent for very little benefits.

Overall: I like the background. The character just needs some refinement. Ask yourself what's core for him and focus on that. Just keep a little extra to fluff him out with a few extras. :slight_smile:

Initial scores in the current library were achieved by a mix of players stating what subjects they were interested in and Storyguide fiat (for the scores). Since we are adding new players to the saga, we can certainly swap some scores around.

For a subject which is not covered, the initial score is achieved by adding a first summa to it. That summa will provide the initial Level and Quality. If you write the initial book, it will not give you much benefit from studying it (as its Level will be lower than yours, so the xp gain is halved). Trading books is probably faster.

The lack of a Magic Theory score is an oversight. I will add a basic score there (Level 4 / Quality 8).

The Quality discussion is not longer relevant, it was for the previous house rule for the library. We will use ArM5 p.165 for the Quality of new books. No refinements on individual books, but you can invest vis and seasons to enchant the library itself.

None for now. Covenants will be used as an inspiration, but the improvements will be story-driven (much like the library) instead of ressources-driven (yearly expenditures).

Whatever the characters are able to cast themselves. Or they can hire someone else to cast it for them.

Vis is scarce, so you may need to spend seasons extracting it. Or trade vis from your sources for Vim through the Redcap network.

No casting tablets in this saga. :smiling_imp:

From 1 to 3 pawns per year, depending on the Art produced and how well the source fits in your character concept.

They certainly exist and still serve the Order. Once a covenant is officially established and recognized by the Tribunal, you can expect at least a visit every year. Before that... it will depend on how convincing you are with House Mercere. :wink:

As mentioned, there are rumours that the number of Mercere magi is declining. That can be both good and bad. Less magi of their own House means they may be more open to dealing with other magi for enchantments they need. On the other hand it could mean they are less attached to the Order than they used to be. But are the rumours true?

Thanks for your review; I will consider what you’ve said.

Hello.
I'm embarrassed about the attributes miscalculation.
There was a rationale for the Profession: Scribe, but I've shifted that into Apprenticeship anyway. Reworked ability build (in spreadsheet this time):


More focused, as suggested.
For virtues, Mastered Spells was not (mostly) in for combat-related reasons; it's partly in for reducing botch dice (Parens' response to Twilight Prone), but also because with Slow Caster, fast-cast allows those spells to be cast in one round. The rationale in both cases is that Gereon's parens has had him drilling with selected formulaic spells to partially overcome those flaws. (They will of course clobber him full force with less-practiced spells, let alone new ones.) If you still disapprove of this selection, I can change it. (Affinity Intellego or Personal vis source are possibilities.)
I am reluctant to lose the Affinity with Herbam as not having it makes a bit of a nonsense of the Magical Focus on Trees.

Spells still TBD, but thanks for pointers.
Still thinking over a replacement flaw for visions. Work in progress!

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I'm assuming the 120 xp left over from apprenticeship are for his Arts?

Yes.
I’ve already realised that the 15xp in Awareness from Well-Travelled is illegal… argh.

Sorry this is taking so long. Work has been a pain and I’m on an intensive training course next week.

Understood. Thanks for letting us know.

I've been thinking.
An Intellego affinity would make more sense if the magical focus were to also change to suit.
I'm thinking of a minor focus in Natural Mysteries (open to a better name suggestion). This would include the goal area of Merinita Nature mysteries, and also Intellego spells applicable to nature; from the spells selected at present, I think only Speak with Plant and Tree, and Intuition of the Forest would be included. This would be some motivation to add others, like Stone Tell of the Mind That Sits (if affordable, and inapplicable to built stone); up to you whether it would also apply to spells to perceive regiones or similar (again, only well away from mundane civilisation).
This idea actually returns to something I could not previously narrow down enough to afford, of having some inherent link to essential Nature. The interest in trees/Herbam would remain (with or without the corresponding Art affinity) but would be a less dominant factor. Since Nature is seldom hurried, this would also reduce the impetus for Mastered Spells (and fast-cast access).
What do you think?

Something like "Communing with nature"? A limited subset of Intellego that allows you to somewhat communicate with inanimate natural things?

It could apply to trees/plants, natural rock/mountains, clouds or breezes, rivers and streams. But not animals, because they are animate beings. Nor faeries, because they are not natural.

That sounds fine to me.

Slightly unfortunate euphemism apart(!), not bad, except applicability to Nature Mysteries is important (please clarify). Presumably regiones would be out of scope (as they're all supernatural).

I'm not sure what you mean by the focus applying to the Nature Mysteries... (re-reading them)

The only one with anything like a spell or lab total is Awakening with its Awakening Total and its Power Lab Total. The first isn't a problem, while the second (a bit borderline) could be acceptable also - as long as the powers being imbued are harmonious with nature (no trees with sword-like limbs or fire-breating wolves).