Covenant Design Discussion

I think most of these make sense. I was wondering what sort of mundane political hook might be appropriate, but we might have enough to handle if we take the School Residents hook. We do have two Jerbiton magi, so this wouldn't be too much trouble to justify. If we do go this route, I may take some skill in Teaching.

Local Ally is inherent, unless we take a far more powerful genus Loci or nymph than would be expected, and we may have related flaws: beholden (to the nymph) if she is demanding, Pagans if a number of covenfolk worship the nymph (note this would not have to be the magi- perhaps the shepherds have an overdeveloped sense of veneration...)

(I noted this in the joining thread, but it really belongs here...)
We do need to decide how detailed we want to be about finances.
I tend to like the details, but many folks hate them.

Also, I think an Aura of 5 would be really good. I like the idea of the Healthy feature if we can get the boons and hooks to balance.

I plan to be pretty detailed about finances- not to the level of keeping track of expenses during travel, but to the level described in covenants.

I'm not excited by detailed finances, but I don't hate them either.

If I were running a game I wouldn't bother with much financial detail. I'm happy for us to use the rules in Covenants, but I'd prefer not to be the one doing the math!

I will be doing the math, keeping track of the details as outlined in covenants...

If you don't object, once we are up and running, I would like to see the spreadsheet so that I can better understand the rules.
Thanks.

certainly

I'm fine with the accounting on finances, though would probably do a terrible job with it myself. Be glad to help as I could though.

I like the idea of a spread out covenant rather than a large manor house myself. Fires are common in this day and age.

After considering it, I'm more inclined towards a genius loci than an actual nymph. But not so much so that I'd argue the point. If we go with the nymph I'm all for a faeire regio inside the aura.

Strong vote yes on the secondary income, though it sounds like at this point it's a given we are taking that.

The idea of the exceptional book is interesting. And would give our stated purpose some credibility in the eyes of the Tribunal. I would say pick an Art that will give us the most bang-for-our-boon-buck in terms of dealing with other coveants. An Art that isn't usually covered well in a library or would have some value given the Tribunal makeup. Vim perhaps. A good volume on Corpus may give us some leverage with Epidarous. Or, due to the large population of Jerbiton in the Tribunal, maybe Imaginem.

About the covenant finance, I already have a spreadsheet that does most of the job. It would be easy for me to adapt it to our new covenant and post the results. I'm good with numbers and it wouldn't be a chore for me. But if silveroak prefers to do it, I'm fine with it. :slight_smile:

About the Exceptional Book boon, it might make sense if it wasn't even an actual physical book at all. It could be an artefact, or a place, that acts as a book for study purposes. For example, a small cave in the side of the mountain where a powerful magus/maga studied and experimented for decades, accidentally infusing the place with his/her knowledge as he/she passed into Final Twilight. We build the covenant on top of the site to protect it. That means that this "book" cannot be moved and must be studied here. It would also mean that it cannot be copied (or perhaps just with losing a few points of its Quality).

We could even go so far as to use the Significatos rules from Covenants (p.101) instead of the book rules. That means that our exceptional "book" would be a source of vis whenever it is not being used. It might also mean that it would be popular with magi who are not good with books, as it uses the raw vis study rules instead. (Just throwing out ideas here.)

As for the Art, it sure won't be easy to select one that will satisfy everyone. For me, Imaginem is not interesting at all. Corpus and Vim are very obvious, but neither of those is "an Art that isn't usually covered well in a library". My magus would certainly like for it to be Herbam, but as a player I'm not sure I'd like that. What about Aquam? It is certainly an Art that is considered very useful in this Tribunal. (And as I am saying this, remember that my magus is Deficient with Aquam, so it is not a selfish choice.)

Perhaps the Art is related to what the study area is (assuming it's not a book).

Aquam - for a spring
Terram - for a cave
Herbam - for a tree
Ignem - for an eternal flame fed by underground gasses

I do like the idea of an exceptional book. Arthur's ideas about it being part of the space are cool, but I could see interesting stories arising from portability as well. I guess I could go either way.

As to the Art, what if our Storyguide made it exceptionally good, like really really good, top notch, and then rolled randomly for the Art :smiley: As an alternative, really any of the techniques would be useful to many of us.

I have two thoughts on this:

  1. Have the book be on a technique- creo or Rego spring to mind as they appear to be common specialties in the covenant
  2. To link the book to the site- it has been clarified and left behind by some past magus. Since it is clarified it cannot be removed from the aura, but copies can be made.

Yes, clarification also came to mind as a reason why the book would still be there. But what reason would the original owner/writer have to clarify the book? In an isolated cave (or similar location)? This is usually something that a covenant might benefit from, so that would entail there there was once a covenant here. Or, perhaps, that the book was magically transported to the place where it was found. Or the book became clarified "naturally" because it remained for so long in a magical aura, close to a vis source, so that the raw vis infused the book (or books? there might be others that were found there). We recently discovered it and are building the covenant to protect it.

Which leads me to a question. Are we (the magi) building the covenant as the saga starts? Or did the physical construction begin a few years before, so that the buildings are there and (if we take that hook) we already have children attending our school?

If construction of the covenant was done before the saga starts, then perhaps some of the magi should be aged a few years to represent the time that passed for the construction. Otherwise we would need some senior magus (or magi) to have started it before we were Gauntleted.

Someone had to discuss with the nymph getting her patronage to establish the covenant as well. I never expected everyone to be freshly out of their gauntlet- in many ways that seems to me to be the most ridiculous and overused idea in AM- that a group of apprentices will pass their gauntlets and immediately set out and found a new covenant, managing to scrounge up the resources to do so.
That being said, we do have as a plot device Liberius' Parens who is dead. They could have easily done a lot of the pre work, and potentially even become a living ghost bound to the covenant as a backup plan in case the nymph decided not to agree.

What ages post-gauntlet did you foresee? I'm happy to add a few years post-gauntlet to my character. I agree that having a passel of newly-gauntleted magi start a covenant is a bit unrealistic. It's sort of like the old Judy Garland-Mickey Rooney movies where a bunch of kids get together and make a show. ("My dad has a barn!")

BTW, since no one else went for Merinita, and we have a nymph floating around, I was thinking of doing up a House Merinita magus (details TBD). I just need to get past the post-vacation/end-of-the-month crunch to get the numbers down. I should be able to dig in tonight or tomorrow.

It would have to either be from another tribunal or (due to the way apprentices are assigned in Thebes) be in increments of 7 years. so 7 or 14 years past the gauntlet would make sense if you still want to be a younger magus.

Also the mythic companion I just posted- Alexander - has woodcraft of 14 and a faerie sympathy with wood at +7, which depending on whether we use Covenant or City and Guild for calculating production means he could build either 11 pounds worth of materials (a manor house is listed in covenants as costing 10 pounds) or with a gang of laborers build either 10 townhouses or 1 wooden castle in a season. Plus he gets to add the aura to his effective ability with wood... So we could start with a manor house that Alexander built last season.

Although it is true that apprenticeships begin at a tribunal assembly, I could find nothing that confirms that Gauntlet takes place during a tribunal year. So, for apprentices that pass their gauntlet early or late, they could be off by a year or two either way.

But I don't object that most of our magi, if aged a few years post-Gauntlet, would be in increments of 7 years.

Personally, although I don't feel any urge to age my magus, I am willing to do it if it is necessary for the saga. Since he's ready for play, I certainly have the time to advance him some. Let me know if you want me to.

For those who age their magus, what rules should we use? Standard post-apprenticeship advancement of 30 points per year from page 32? Or Extremely Complex Character Generation from page 33?

Either is fine. Personally I find that the extremely complex rules wind up with stronger characters, but clearly do take more time.

If we do take the complex option, what should we assume for book level/quality and availability? Same for teachers/training.

I would suggest simply making it a good story and assign Source Quality to something reasonable. As we post stuff, others will comment on how realistic it is. Simply go one year at a time.

For example, if you say that your magus spends a year at the covenant of Moero’s Garden (TSE p.115), you can reasonably expect something like that. Travel there and explore the city of Nicea (5 xp in Area Lore), help the covenant with their art collection by crafting a minor enchanted item to protect the books in their basement from humidity (2 xp of exposure in Magic Theory), reading books on Philosophiae (SQ 12) and going on a vis hunt to help resplenish the vis used to create the enchanted item (10 xp). The total xp would be quite similar to what you'd get normally, but you would have a lab text for the object created as a bonus and perhaps two pawns of raw vis (left over from what you needed to craft the item).

In short, anything that would go beyond the 30 points would need to be justified. From past experience, you often end up with slightly less xp, but it is a bit more efficient to learn spells (because you have access to lab texts).

But that's just a suggestion. :smiley: