Covenant Discussion

I just wanted to think it through and re-read it, so that takes some time :smiley:

I really like it. Hippocrates would like to live in the villa, and as such would be a strong backer of 2 Aegises (obviously).

And we really should consider how the Big Lab can be built and enhanced.
One (easy) way to do it is to let each magus build up a refinement score for himself in the lab, and install the virtues he wants. One benefit could then be that installation time is only payed once for the same feature, but all who want to benefit need to spend the space, virtues and flaws to get it in their version of the lab.

ie: The Statue is a typical Feature that could give bonuses to Corpus (or Rego or Terram...) and that can be both minor and major. So until someone installs it in their version of the lab a it is a glorified coat-rack (though someone might protest :wink: ). If someone spends the season to make it a minor (or major) feature, then other magi could also do so without spending more than for a free virtue/flaw (a few days). After this we could very well have a few labs not using it (or still using it as a coat rack), one using it as a minor feature, one as a major feature and maybe some as a minor or major focus (cheaper in space-cost). It would all depend on how each fits his work to the lab.

I would suggest that any Health-bonus is given on a 25% basis for each season spent in the lab (that year) and would probably be better installed in a secondary lab/Sanctum. Any and all Aestetic bonuses on the common lab should give a reputation to the covenant :slight_smile:

All in all I think that it should be possible for each magus to have a separate, size-0 lab for his sanctum on the side, but that we maybe should limit the upkeep of those labs to 5 MP or so? And "save up" to buy improvments? Then the common lab could (and should) have all the really expensive stuff so that the "at your limit" work should be done there?

Or we could decide the whole thing is too much hassle and agree that each magus gets 10 or 15 MP a year for his lab and can have up to +3 size. all of them in +2 auras and leave the +4 center for something else?

I have a minor objection to Obsidian Portal. It may be difficult for me to access it from work regularly, because of either the nature of the site (sometimes gets blocked by our filters) and its more flashy nature (color scheme, ads, etc.)

Would you mind setting this up as a plainer wiki instead? I've used Referata and we could set up something plain that would make it easier for me to access.

Gulla, I'm having some trouble following what you're saying. Seems to be you're suggesting that the lab is capable of reconfiguring itself based on the user? It's all things to all magi. :smiley:

I don't care for that idea. I've been working on a common lab that would initially be setup. We would have hired a peregrinator to do the setup, and these build points are above and beyond what's already been allocated. I'm going to develop the lab based on all of the submitted characters, so there's something in there for each of us.

I want the common lab, I want it to be weird and break some of the rules of Hermetic theory (our characters probably won't realize this right away). We spend some time enhancing the lab and then someone does something and they all stick together. I'm working out in my mind how this is all going to work, and it will probably be part of the charter...

Note that the way I've described the main site, the statue in the shared lab is the source of the aura. So the magi should be very careful not to mess with it, because it might affect the overall aura of the covenant.

One possible covenant hook is Flickering Aura. This would be a ceremony that would need to be performed once a year using the statue, based on Mercuralia. This is performed on May 15, so this means any magus using it must be ready to accept that the other magi will come into the lab at this time (or possibly lead the ritual himself for the part that must be done close to the statue). A minor inconvenience, for the most part, but then that's what a hook is about.

That wasn't the idea. The idea was that it would be rather spacious with lots of stuff in it and that each would use only some of it depending on preferences and work-methods.

But if you have more detailed ideas, that sounds great. Then I can use time on other ideas :smiley:

I'm basically out for the next week. Posting will be erratic and my commentary will tend to be on the light side until sometime on 6/20.

Okay... Still trying to keep up. Sorry for the delays...

I like the manor house idea. Given that Aedituus has grown up in a community setting, he would prefer to be near the group, rather than in a satellite lab. Is there still an abbey nearby? There is a good chance he will spend time visiting there, given his research.

I think the wiki to keep track of the covenant is a good idea. I currently use Obsidian Portal, but have no objections to something plainer.

I hope you don't mind if I keep throwing stuff at the saga, mostly regarding the covenant site and post-gauntlet development of my magus. I'll assume anything I post is subject to approval by the troupe and will be ready to modify it as needed.

Not at all

Regarding the covenant's aura, the statue, and a vis source for the covenant...

The Temple
When the site of the old temple was discovered, it looked like this.

Within the forest south of Koblenz, some distance from the Roman road that links Koblenz to Trier (about 80 miles southwest as the bird flies), is a clearing in the trees. That clearing forms an oval 80 paces by 115 paces (widest on the southeast-northwest axis) where a crumbling wall stood. At the north-northwest tip of the wall once stood a large gate building granting access to the temple grounds, but three smaller gates also pierced the wall on the northeastern side.

Inside of the walls, small trees and bushes have established themselves well and clutter the space, initially hiding the ruins of the temple itself. But as one travels from the main gate towards the center of the walls, soon the temple loons through the trees. It still stands, a bit closer to the gate than the center of the oval formed by the walls.

Although the temple was obvisouly torched at some point and is mostly collapsed, it did not burn completely and the remains of the building are still impressive. A columned hall 20 paces wide by 21 paces long surrounded the 9 by 10 paces Celia (holy room). Inside of the Celia are two large statues of Mercury and Rosmerta, still holding hands. Rosmerta's right arm has broken off at the shoulder, and both statues are scarred by the centuries of neglect. Their surface is scored and shows many cracks, but anyone approaching them can still feel a shiver of raw power emanating from the stone. A small stone altar stands before the statues.

The Aura
Within the Celia there is a magical aura of 4, but quickly becomes weaker as one moves away from the Celia. The whole area within the old walls has a magical aura of 2. This was not always the case, however, since the aura comes from the statues the aura was weaker initially. Cleaning the rubble and rebuilding the temple helped, but restoring some of Mercury's worship helped even more. If the rituals cease, however, the aura will weaken again (Flickering Aura covenant hook). This was revealed when the site was initially investigated by the magi.

Space for the Labs
The area of the Celia is approximately 850 square feet, so a +2 Size lab can be establishe there. The Celia could even be expanded slightly so as to allow a +3 Size lab and still benefit from the stronger magical aura.

Other labs can also be established anywhere inside of the walls. A probable way to do this would be to build a large villa-type building around the temple, where the magi can have their sancta and living quarters, with restricted access to the courtyard inside the villa. This would add a degree of protection to the Celia and the valuable statues. Living quarters for the covenfolk and grogs could then be set up either in wings of the villa or in seperate buildings within the wall enclosure.

Mercuralia and Altar rituals
Once a year, on May 15th, the rituals of the festival of Mercuralia must be observed or the aura is reduced by 1 within the walls, and by 2 within thin the Celia. The ritual is fairly simple.

Throughout the year, a small flame must be kept lit before the statues, with fragrant woods being fed to it regularly. A silver bowl of water must also be kept full before them. Once a year, during the festival of Mercuralia (May 15th), the water must be ritually sprinkled on the head of all those live inside the walls, and over each door lintel within the walls as well. This needs not be done by a single person, but the sprinkling must be done using a fresh laurel branch. The difficulty lies in the fact that laurel trees do not grow in the Rhine tribunal, so a branch must be imported each year from the Mediteranean region and kept fresh.

If the ritual flame dies, the aura inside of the Celia immediately falls by 1 and a more elaborate ritual must be performed to restore it (this takes a whole week). If the Mercuralia ritual is not performed, the whole aura (inside the walls and inside the Celia) fall by 1 as well for the next year (until the next Mercuralia). So the aura within the wall can be 1 (without Mercuralia ritual) or 2 (with the Mercuralia ritual), while the aura within the Celia can be 2 (no rituals), 3 (either the altar is maintained or the Mercuralia ritual was performed) or 4 (with both the altar maintained and the Mercuralia ritual).

Vis Source
As the water is sprinkled throughout the covenant site on Mercuralia, the wood and leaves of the laurel branch slowly gain a silvery hue. Once the ritual is complete, the branch contains Vim vis. The raw vis dissipates as the branch dries out and looses its leaves, but may be collected into a different receptacle.

Again, anything stated below is a suggestion. Feel free to suggest changes or outright deletions.

Koblenz History
Around 20 B.C., the Romans colonized the region of Koblenz and later established a fortified camp to secure the fluvial access along the Mainz-Cologne-Xantena route. This roman camp was named ad confluentes and would become the city of Koblenz. This is the around the same time that Trier was established as well.

Around 45 A.D., a piers bridge 350 meters long (made of 600 iron-tipped oak trunks) was built across the Rhine. Numerous Roman farms (villa rustica) were build all around the city, to feed the troops living there, and a temple to Mercury and Rosmerta (gallo-roman diety) was founded (south of the city). As a result of the colonization and Roman cult, the primeval forest in the region was tamed and fragmented, so there is no forest spirit in the area. A second fortified camp was established on the large island just north of Koblenz in the 2nd century, which was destroyed in 259 A.D. by the Franks.

When the Romans retreated during the 5th century, they destroyed bridges across the Rhine and Mosel. At this time, the city is conquered by the Franks and becomes a royal seat. The church of St. Kastor is established in the early 9th century, to honour a 4th century missionary of the Mosel river, just outside of the city wall. The city suffers from Norman pillage at the end of 9th century and is destroyed in 882 A.D.

In 1018, the city was given by the emperor Henry II to the archbishop and prince elector of Trier after receiving a charter. It remained in the possession of his successors to this day. Emperor Conrad II is elected here in 1138. In 1198, the battle between Philip of Swabia and Otto IV took place nearby, in the dried bed of the Mosel river. In 1216, prince-bishop Theoderich von Wied donated part of the lands of the basilica and the hospital to the Teutonic Knights, which later became the Deutsches Eck.

Koblenz Forest (Mythic History)
South of the city stands the Koblenz Forest. During the Roman colonization, the original forest spirit was tamed and broken. Only fragments of the original forest remain in the area, as the land was deforested and sprinkled with Roman farms. More farms were also established north of the Mosel river, and the land there is still cultivated by local farmes. Things are different in the southern side of the river except close to the city.

In the 5th century, as the Romans were driven off from the area, many of the Roman farmers were massacred by the Franks and the temple to Mercury was put to the torch (although not completely destroyed). This allowed the fragments of the original forest spirit to regain some of its power, but also gave rise to many ghosts from all those killed in the area. Although these ghosts are individually very weak and harmless, those without protection are bothered by their unintelligible whispers at night. The ghost try to communicate with the living, but aren't strong enough to be heard by those without any magical ability. Even to those, their words make very little sense even when they can be understood (they speak in ancient Latin). The ghosts only come out at night, but that still means that no mundane want to settle here, for they cannot sleep because of the ghostly whispers.

This made it possible for the trees to be unhinabited for many centuries. Although the occasional woodsman come to harvest the forest for wood or hunt here, the forest is mostly left alone.

This gave a nice opportunity for the magi to establish a covenant on the site of the old temple of Mercury. The ghosts keep the mundanes away, while the Aegis protects the covenfolk from the nightly visitations of the ghosts. However, it means that the covenfolk do not usually travel at night, for the of the ghosts can be maddening. The magi, protected by their Parma Magica, do not suffer from this problem.

Some suggestions for sources of mundane income for the covenant:

  • Wine: A classic, but we are in the valleys of the Rhine and Mosel river. The production does not need to be at the covenant site itself, it could be some distance away along the Mosel river. A variation could be fruit wine, or even possibly something anachronistic like brandy (magi would be aware of the required alchemy to strengthen spirits).
  • Cooperage: With the Koblenz forest rich in oak trees, it might be possible to set up a reasonable team of coopers to make barrels for the winemakers of the region. Quality barrels are fairly labour-intensive work, but a little bit of magic could make things easier for a variety of tasks. Just seasoning the wood more quickly (and more consistently) could provide an edge to the business that would increase income.
  • Commerce: Koblenz is a fairly developped commercial city, as it controls access up both the Mosel and Rhine rivers. This might also explain how we get good access to mundane goods.

Nothing original there, but I don't think we want to get bogged down by the specifics.

Arthur, nice work on the history and mythology of the place. The ghosts are a nice touch. Are these primarily the spirits of the massacred Romans, or does anyone who dies in the forest produce a ghost as well? It seems like the presence of so many might provide a study bonus for Mentem in certain areas?

Several more random thoughts ...

Is it possible that the forest spirit retreated during Roman times into a regio?

What about the temple site first attracted the Romans? It could be something much older existed at that location, and bringing magic back to the area might awaken the powers on which the statue currently stands.

According to Wikipedia and Google Earth, it looks like the abbey of St. Kastor is right at the edge of Koblenz, overlooking the confluence of the two rivers. This could also be a location of some power as a result.

The image of taming the river with an iron-bound oaken bridge is pretty provocative for me. Did the Romans really destroy it as they left, or did the Frankish invasion have supernatural help? It seems that faeries aligned with the river would be pretty upset with the bridge, and might have taken steps to eliminate it.

In an earlier post, someone mentioned the existence of another abbey or monastery somewhere between the covenant and Koblenz. This could be a chapterhouse of one of the abbeys in Trier.

Nobody knows, but it can easily be assumed that the ghosts are from a long time ago, since they are so weak. I see most of them barely having a Might of 1. They cannot really manifest themselves at all, and appear just as slight movement at the corner of one's eye, as something that slightly brushes against one's skin (like cobwebs), as a barely heard whispering, etc. Nothing solid, but enough to drive mundanes away in a panic.

There may be some stronger ghosts within the forest, from more recently deceased, but the basic ghosts in the forest are probably from the Roman times (Romans who were slaughtered, as well as Frank attackers who were killed).

They might certainly provide a Study Bonus, although up to level 20 at a maximum. I must admit that I designed this feature mainly as a way to explain why a forest so close to the city would be mostly left alone. As I am currently reading a novel that had something similar, and I had also read a research book last winter about the development of ancient cultures (including Roman and Greek) and the belief that the spirit of men remained behind and slowly faded away if they were not worshipped by their descendants. So I adapted it all together. There's a but more to it, but it might be fun to investigate/discover it as the saga advances.

Actually, from what I understand the Romans would have done (from Guardians of the Forest), what probably happened was that the temple was established here because it was the locus where the forest's spirit once resided. This allowed the gods (or rather their magical priests) to use power inherent to the place to feed their rituals and gods. This also reinforced the limes forts along the border of the empire.

There are still 51 of the bridge's oak piles surviving today, so the destruction was not absolute. It seems fairly clear from a historical standpoint that the bridge was destroyed by the Romans themselves. It also makes sense, as the Franks could have used it to easily march armies across the Rhine towards the next Roman positions (like Trier).

But yes, the bridge itself may have been set up as a way of "taming" the local river spirit (the remains of the bridge may even be a good place to set up a vis source in the city itself).

Historical information...

Laach Abbey (Abbatia Lacensis), a Benedictine abbey founded in 1093 as a priory of Affligem Abbey (in modern Belgium) by the first Count Palatine of the Rhine Heinrich II von Laach and his wife Adelheid von Orlamünde-Weimar, widow of Hermann II of Lotharingia. Laach became an independent house in 1127, under its first abbot, Gilbert. Affligem itself had been founded by Hermann. Although the abbey was founded by a prominent (if not excommunicated) member of the imperial party (Investiture Controversy), Affligem became soon after a prominent member of the Cluniac reform movement. The abbey developed as a centre of study during the 12th century.

The lake...
The abbey is set on the southwestern side of the lake. The lake itself (Laach Lake)is 8 km (5.0 mi) in circumference, and surrounded by a ring of high hills. The water is blue, very cold and bitter to the taste. The lake has no natural outlet and so the water level changes considerably due to evaporation and rainfall conditions. The Laacher See is a potentially active volcano, proven by seismic activities and heavy thermal anomalies under the lake. Carbon dioxide gas from magma still bubbles up at the southeastern shore. At the base of the moutain (where nowadays there is a quarry on the southeastern side) one can find caves formed by lava in the ash flow of the eruption.

Mythic stuff...
The caves could have an supernatural aura of some kind (magical or infernal are first thought, although faerie is also a possibility) and be the site of another vis source for the covenant. If it is magical, this would be another possible site for more specialized lab space or sanctum for a more seclusive magus.

Another possibility would be that this is one of the income sources of the covenant, a quarry for basalt/pummice/volcanic sand. The network of caves might lead to other riches, such as gemstones. The caves may be the entrance of a regio.

I found a map of medieval Koblenz that we could use as a starting point for stuff inside the city.

Nice!

I'll just warn here that I'll be more or less offline the next 3 weeks...

Is there anything I could do to help things move forward? I guess most of the others are working on their magi, so I don't want to push too much. On the other hand, mine is ready to go so I've got time to work on the covenant. I just don't want the others to fell like I'm trying to force the covenant to be exactly what according to my vision of things.

So, any suggestion on what I could work on?

Do we have some more background that I could work from? For example, if I know who the driving force behind the creation of the covenant, then I can create some correspondence that was exchanged between my magus and that magus, as well as one or more of the others. Similarly, I can stat out grogs if people have a kernel concept of what they'd like their magi to bring to the covenant. Same for vis sources -- if one of you wish for some vis source of a specific kind, I could detail something along those lines.

Just let me know, I'm itching to do something productive... :wink:

Well, you can always go deep into the back story of the magus. There are grogs...

As far as the force behind or supporting the covenant? I don't have a huge opinion except I want them to be independent of the various participants.
Where is everyone from (apprentice covenant)? I haven't decided for mine...

If we are in the Rhine Tribunal, don't we need the approval of the other covenants to found a new one? And shouldn't we be getting gifts in exchange for other favors? I don't mind handwaving this away, just curious.

Aedituus is from a covenant in the Stonehenge Tribunal, but has spent most of his post-gauntlet life as a peregrinator in the Rhine after the Interdict in England. (Are we starting in 1220?)

When I was playing the now defunct "Curse of the Rhine Gorge" I created a companion, Amelie, who was intended to eventually be the mundane Steward. I never really had the chance to play her, and wondered if anyone would mind if I brought her along? A version of her stats is here: https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/campaigns-active/203/1. Both would probably need tweaking for our purposes.