Covenant Discussions (OOC)

This doesn't create any story opportunities and means that everyone loses a lab season. I've got no problem with challenges, but I like story challenges better than math challenges.

  1. Not everything in Ars Magica is about stories. Most seasons spent in the lab aren't about stories, but capabilities. This is just one more of those.
  2. Constraints can generate stories elements. Juggling your seasons between completing your lab or doing other things your maga needs/wants to do is part of the game.
  3. I offered an alternative to taking the Basic flaw.
  4. In many sagas that I've played in, magi have to set up their lab from scratch.
  5. Planning a season to complete set up of your maga's lab isn't much of a math challenge. If you don't want to spend time parsing through the various lab virtues and flaws, then don't. Just take the Basic flaw and nothing else. Easy peasy.

So, Swiss has a large geographic database that can be accessed for free though this link. The link will open to the following 3D generated view of our covenant's valley:

The covenant itself would be a handful of houses and towers right between the creeks at the west east of the valley, roughly where the trees are. :slightly_smiling_face:


Isn't the covenant a bit light on vis sources for a covenant that's a treasure trove of vis elder magi would fight over? I only see one.

(Mentioning it because I recalled Wolfgang needs a longevity ritual winter 1205.)

There is a second one that was described in the Pilgrimage for Vis story. Someone just needs to summarize it in the covenant's topic.

There were also several ideas discussed in this topic, I believe, but they were never finalized or formalized.

Found some of those vis sources ideas (not all in this topic):

Note that if you have further ideas for vis source, feel free to share them!

I took the liberty to make some changes to the description of our Creo source included by @Reminiscent and to add a description for "The Petrified Serpent".

For our current reserves, how does this sound:

Vis Reserves
Creo 3 Animal Ignem
Intellego Aquam Imaginem
Muto 7 Auram Mentem
Perdo Corpus Terram
Rego 3 Herbam 2 Vim 6

My reasoning: From the initial 20 I've discounted 2 pawns used by Regulus to pay for his travel to Confluensis a couple of seasons ago. Otherwise, our main sources (The Oak and the Serpent) have been taken into consideration for what vis we should have, plus enough Vim vis for our Aegis.

Thanks for cleaning up my description! I think that’s a very sensible view of our vis reserves based on our vis sources.

And there is just barely enough vis for the one magus who wants a Longevity Ritual (probably requires about 7 of the 9 Cr/Co/Vi vis). I suspect we'll need to work on vis income.

There should be a few more short stories about vis sources, as well as some additional sources that are simply harvested. Those just need to be described more fully (they were described in the notes that Leonardus left behind and which were passed by Julius.)

Just remember that about a fourth of the vis sources should be clearly located in the territory of each of the neighbouring Tribunals.

Some time ago I've marked several covenants and points of interest in Google Earth. I can share the KLM file if someone thinks it's worth. My objective was not to have a precise location for the covenants, but a rough location within a few miles.

The red circle is a 60 mile radius (about 1 week to go there and return by foot). The Tower of Ashes is the home of Jacinta of Flambeau (4th edition maga from the Great Alps).

I think Dankmar and Jacinta can be good options for a contested source. The closest covenant in Normandy is Cunfin, about 10 days away.


I love this. I was struggling to conceptualize the geography of covenants across the three Tribunals, so this is super helpful.

I can’t imagine Dankmar will make very friendly neighbors, and excited to learn more about Jacinta (my only info is 5th edition).

An idea about having a contested vis source between us and Jacinta at Bern. Bern was founded as a military outpost less than 15 years ago (in 1191).

Plausibly, this could mean that Leonardus never got around to updating his notes on how to harvest the vis source before passing into Final Twilight in 1196.

Part of the adventure might be finding where in the new town the vis source is, or how it changed. (E.g. a thematic option might be something like a bear vis source slayed at Bern’s founding turned into a rug that cries aquam vis at Bern’s founding anniversary. Getting it from the Duke’s bedroom would be the problem)

Sounds like a good idea, although Bern is clearly within the Greater Alps. So the covenant's case to retain this source is weak should it be discovered by Jacinta -- and having a source contested by an Flambeau archmaga may be dicey for Tugurium.

Something a bit closer, within the valley of the Aare river for example, might be a bit easier to manage. But hey, what do I know. :wink:

Does one of you feel like developping the Tower of the Ashes and Jacinta a little bit as a recurring story element? She could certainly have strong links to Wolfgang, as a fellow Apromor, but also be both an ally in some stories and an opponent in others.

Same is true of Dankmar, for that matter... :smiling_imp:

So if one of you feel like staking a claim on a covenant or a major npc, feel free to do so!

Good to know. I was under the impression that the lands were also at risk. That they were something like an appanage.

A few of the Telsberg will be so pissed when they discover the land won't be going back to them in the foreseeable future...

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Vis Sources Proposal

This is a proposed arrangement for our vis sources (since we are about to advance a few years I'm thinking we should have a better view of them). I've listed the sources we have already agreed on and arbitrarily set an amount for some of them. I have also put a few that ha been mentioned, but not fleshed out or discussed. Nothing here is meant to be definitive, we can change whatever we want.

I have put around 15 pawns in each tribunal and about 40 pawns that are "solidly" in our covenant grounds (meaning, at most 3 days to go and return). This totals up to about 85 pawns, but don't forget we pay 1/4 of this to the heirs every year, so we will have about 63 after "taxes".


  • maybe only one source in Rhine, amounting 9~11 pawns? I'd put it to the north, midway between Colmar and Basel. I'm finding it hard to justify more than one source in the Rhine tribunal because Basel lies in that direction, and Dankmar is close by. Can't help but think most sources are taken.
  • we could also settle for only two sources in Normandy and/or two in the Alps (each giving more vis), just so we don't need to have that many sources to track.
Oak of Promisses A thousand year oar. 12 Herbam Covenant
Oak of Promisses Promisses under the oak become vis 3 Rego Covenant
Petrified Sea Serpent A sea serpent around a roman galley 7 Muto Covenant
Roman Galley A sea serpent around a roman galley 3 Vim Covenant
Healing Waters of Underswyler 2~3 Creo Covenant
The Light in the Cave A shining block of ice in winter 5 Ignem Covenant
Pierre Perçu A rock with a hole in Porrentruy 4 Terram (F) Covenant
Clendy Alignment??? 6 Vim Great Alps
4 Great Alps
10 Great Alps
7 Rhine
6 Rhine
3 Normandy
8 Normandy
4 Normandy
  • The (F) notation is meant to design faerie tainted vis. I propose we use the same notation in case of infernal or divine vis.

Vis Sources Brainstorm

  • Clendy alignment (set of menhirs south of lake Neuchatel): Vim? Terram?
  • Several other menhirs around Neuchatel: Vim? Terram?
  • Irregular weather phenomena in the alps mountains: Auram
  • Something close to Moutier Abbey? Possibly tainted by the Divine?
  • Something around Besançon? Regulus could have harvsted it for us when returning from Normandy in the summer of 1205.

Do we have a list of teachers/trainers? In special, I'm thinking if we have someone to teach Latin (both to the magi and covenfolk).

I reckon we could request Father Luc, but he isn't exactly the best option...

We don't. I doubt Father Luc would agree to teach Latin at the covenant (he doesn't really have time anyway).

Adeline would be able to teach some Latin (she has a score of 4 and Com +2) at least a season per year, now that things are settling down for her. She'd even get better avor time, developping her Teaching score.

Julius the Steward is also a decent teacher. He has Latin at 6, Ancient Greek at 4, Magic Lore at 4, Artes Liberales and Philosophiae at 2. He even has a decent Teaching score of 3, with a specialty in teaching languages, and has Com +1. His availability would probably be limited to one season per year.

Julius hasn't had an incentive to teaching Latin to covenfolk, because he has the Gift of Tongues. So he already understands and is able to speak to anyone.

So Tower of Ashes & Dankmar then appear to be our Hermetic Neighbors that are close enough worry about in the immediate sense?