covenants: flaw "undecorated"


Long time ago when I tried metacreator, it would add -1 for each specialization > 2.

The covenant book says "subtract one point from any Specializations with a score of 2 or more".

So i'm just checking if you read it the same ways as metacreator does?

See you,


I would.

Just checking, how else would you read it?
If you're suggesting that it only affect a single specialization, I'd expect the text to read "subtract one point from any one Specializations with a score of 2 or more".

Yes it was what I had understood 10 years ago. Never bothered to take the flaw since then (because it's basically a 0 to -6 specialization flaw, expensive!). Now I'm just calculating a secondary lab for future apprentice teaching, and checking what can be used.

So undecorated is still out of the picture. I guess I was expecting it.

That really depends on how you want to use that lab/what you want to use it for :wink:

No, I don't read it that way. "2 or more" should be adding -1 for each specialization ≥2, not >2.

Well, it's not necessarily so bad. If you have a pretty basic lab, you get that -1 for space and -1 Upkeep for the cost of only -1 Aesthetics. But there are others you might prefer:

Awkward Shape. Sometimes you have some bonuses that provide Safety, an Safety above 0 isn't so handy. So this can be a good one.

Diminutive. This is tempting. There is no penalty for the typical apprentice until age 14. However, that still leaves the most useful years of the typical apprentice at a penalty. But if this were for a covenant as a whole with two shared apprentice labs, this could work really well for one of them.

No Stores. As with Awkward Shape, but also note you could take it with Spacious for a net of just +1 Aesthetics. Everyone should always use this combo or similar.

Poorly Insulated. As with No Stores, but taking it with Spacious nets you +1 Safety. Also, even on its own it's basically just -1 Aesthetics because it reduces Occupied Size by 1, which improves Safety by 1, counterbalancing its -1 Safety.

Inferior Tools. You don't get a boost for Occupied Size here. But if you have extra Safety, this can cut down on your costs nicely.

Missing Ingredients. This is commonly a great one if you have multiple labs. For instance, if you have a Creo lab for Longevity Rituals and Vis Extraction, using your main lab for everything else, you could take it a bunch of times to penalize everything but Creo, Corpus, and Vim. At that point you've saved yourself -8 Upkeep. Maybe not so good for an apprentice lab. But you're unlikely to teach every single Art, so maybe there are some Arts you just won't have your apprentices working on until after they pass their gauntlets.

Missing Equipment. Take this at least once. An apprentice on their own is unlikely to work on Longevity Rituals or Familiars, and you probably don't want them doing Experimentation at all. So taking it once is easy, and maybe even taking it a second time. You might be able to drop Teaching, figuring if you're teaching then you're in your own lab instead. I doubt I'd ever drop Spells, Texts, or Vis Extraction for an apprentice lab. Maybe Items, though.

Hope that's helpful.

ah, yes. My apologies.