Creo solid geometric forms

It seems natural to do this to me - whenever I hear the world of Ideal forms I think of things exactly described as mathematics.
When using Cr to make a "manufactured" item would it not often be both easier and better to give a precise specification of form and composition desired than to try and use finesse to replicate the idiosyncrasies of something made by imperfect, mundane methods.

But then, how perfectly can Cr instantiate a form in the imperfect world? If I summon a wooden pyramid how sharp are the edges? Perfectly Sharp (what does that mean in game terms?) As sharp as wood of that type can possibly get (and what does that mean in game terms?) Something less depending on the ability of the magus?

Check Hermetic Geometry , Minor Mystery Virtue (page 93 , TMRE).

I'm asking about the basic philosophical nature of Cr magic (that may vary from game to game) not a special ability in a splat book I don't have. And why should it be a mystery anyway - what are all those magic theory tractati about if not stuff like this?

The splat book you don't have has something to say on the matter of geometric forms.
Buy yourself the pdf.

OK, I've just spent 15 dollars I can't really afford on a book for a game I play rarely for which it is an optional extra and not really relevant to any characters I've ever played - that's depressive self destruction for you. Let's see what we've got:

Hermetic Geometry p93-p97
A virtue that lets you use geometric similarity as sympathetic connections and new range, target and duration to exploit this. Pretty underwhelming at first sight. The ability to use ceremonial casting with formulaics, a small casting bonus when using geometry. Some spells and guidelines for using Re(Cr) to draw perfect shapes and tidy architecture.

The only thing of relevance to the OP is the creo requisite that confirms that the world of forms is where you get geometric shapes from. Well duh.

The book might be interesting when I'm a litle less pissed off but for the moment all I can say is: Ravenscroft, your avatar is an unusually good indicator of your character and intellect.

If you have a PayPal account , i will happily send you the cost.
Certainly wasn't my intention to "piss you off".

Nah, in a couple of days I'll be reading the shit out of it.

Back on topic - what is the limit of sharpness?
How many magnitudes to have a perfect conjured object maintain it's perfection against the tribulations of the world for the duration?

I think you see where I'm going with this :smiling_imp:

Well Creo should allow you to create a sword as sharp as the sharpest sword naturally possible. Muto Terram has a spell that sharpens a sword at least as sharp as that. This spell provides a +2 bonus to damage.

As far as a duration Creo spell that keeps an object in a state of perfection for the entirety of the duration. Sounds more like indestructibility which is Muto magic in my book. So maybe creo with a muto prerequisite and a magnitude modifier.

Noliar, do you realize that following an advice without critical thought about it, and buying something just because someone said so is quite indicating.

Ravenscroft kindly suggests a solution because he thinks it may help you, you immediatly go for it, moan about it and insult him? As he insulted you for being impulsive and not having critical mind?


I'm not sure that Edge of the Razor is the best guide for the limits of what is possible here - it's a low level legacy spell that has had it it's magnitude upped by 5th ed guidelines with no change to it's content. Also it can be argued that the slight unnaturalness it provides is not the sharpness of the edge (which could be exactly razor sharp - ie achievable with whetstone and strop) but the ability to hold that edge despite hard use as a sword. A very sharp edge is fragile.

As you say, maintaining something very close to perfection can be done with Mu for indestructibility. Or Re for constant self repair. I'm just wondering if it can be done with pure Cr to make the perfection not merely a circumstantial property of the object at the point of casting but ongoing, essential and/or constantly renewed.

Yes. Case in point the Vulcan's Favor effect seen in Magi of Hermes. The CrTe guideline (Base 15: Repair a crafted item, returning it to an “as new” state.) extended to Constant effect. The post-core spell guidelines are all collected here.

The issue's addressed in HoH: Societates (of all places) pg 60.

Basically, the magus should roll Finesse against relevant Craft Magic EFs to determine how close to perfection his creation is.