CrMe - the Honeypot Mind

Spell effect idea - create a "false mind" that would deceive an InMe effect, and/or possibly become the sacrificial target of Mentem attacks (ala Wizard's Sidestep). This would be something comparable to the CrVi effect "Shell of False Determinations" (p 157) - with or without the relative spell level requirements (pro'ly without).

This "false mind" could then (hopefully) become the "Target" of any attack or probe - (tho' I'm not sure how a mind is "sensed" by the Hermetic Caster in the first place, and so where/when this "false mind" would become the target as opposed to one's actual mind).

It could, if accurate enough, also be something to be referred to "later" by magi, by copying the mind of a target. (This might be expecting too much, and some detailed information - especially magically useful details - might be beyond the scope of such).

The problem is... there are no guidelines for "Creating a Mind". CrCo 5 creates "a corpse", but there is no guideline to create a living, soul-less body either. The closest we have is the MuMe Base 25 to "make a mind solid", and that CrAn 10 creates an animal corpse and 15 creates a live mammal (& mammal "mind") - so +1-2 magnitude bump for that?

So, I'm thinking the Guideline might be something like...

CrMe 15: Create a "mind" with basic thoughts, emotions, memories and responses, but incapable of new, independent, creative thoughts*. This is a "generic mind", but appears real enough until probed at InMe Base 15 or better.

CrMe 20: As above, but patterned off a known model - the better known the model, the better the copy, but no such copy is ever "perfect", even of one's own mind. InMe effects do not automatically detect such minds as artificial unless designed to do so, or an effect (often with duration) reveals some indication of such.

Rego and Muto spells can make an "unthinking" mind appear to be active and responsive, and may further deceive InMe probes.(* For what should be obvious reasons of both Hermetic Limits (Divine Limit) and game balance, a true, thinking mind should be well beyond Hermetic Ability. Such a mind may "think" of hunger or consider a murder as "bad", but will never wax philosophical or invent anything new, and even "conversation" would become dull after a few exchanges.)

This would mean that a spell might look something like this...

The Honeypot Mind
CrMe 35
Creates a duplicate but passive mind of the caster. Further spells would be required to make it appear "active and responsive" to detailed InMe probes.
(Base 20, T:Touch +1, Dur:Sun +2, T:Ind)Admittedly this has not been thought through completely, and I fully expect some hiccups that I simply haven't yet foreseen*. But I do like it on first pass...

[i](* If put into a body, "nothing" happens - no creative thought = no will, so no independent action. A ReMe spell could create the appearance of such, but a ReCo could as well.

As far as "copying a magi's mind" for magical information, the casting mage would first have to have a successful deep probe of that other mage's mind to begin with, and once that is done the copy strikes me as largely unnecessary. Some interesting "doppleganger mind" effects could be produced, tho'...)[/i]


The Memory Palace in TMRE p27 might help define this.

I´ve used a Base 15-35 with +1+5 for Complexity to create what´s essentially meant to roughly be an AI in an item(and other uses have been as a message box and security for itself in one and as a virtual book)...
Not exactly the same as your aim is having something "feel" like the real thing while i´m aiming for something that can think by itself but is generally very restricted in how it does so, overall i think your suggestions look quite viable.

The problem really is how to actually use the spells, as you said...
Perhaps with a Rego (and Vim???) requisite the spell can redirect anything targeted against the mind of the Target on to the spell instead, as long as the caster isnt aware that the fake is there...

A caster could perhaps use a spell like this as an "extra memory", "virtual almanac" or "calculator" as well?
Trading extra warping for some assistance...

While that´s the direction im for, i prefer being a bit less strict on where the limits go. In part simply because the inspiration for the "items" in question is way beyond even where i think would be a suitable limit(it´s a fun request at least, still not sure how to do the original justice without breaking the system completely)...

The core book has a CrIm(Me) spell that creates an illusion that can act and "think" as a dumb human. It has a +6 mag for the memtem effect

Base on this we can devise basis:

Automate: Base 20
Dumb : Base 30
Normal/Complex: 40

Not easy to do ...

A MuVi(Me) effect to divert memtem spells to another target you have an arcane connection might be more indicated. You can also simply ward your mind with a ReMe Base 15 which is probably the "standard" hermetic way.


So WIlliam would use another a ReMe effect to affect incoming mentem effects? That can work as well.

Trojan Mind ReVi(Me)
R: AC D: inst T: ind
Redirects the effects of a Mentem spell of level of this spell +5 targeting the magus to a target at AC range to whom the magus has an AC. InMe effects would leave the caster thinking that the magus is actually a grog in disguise.

So, a base 20 effect would redirect spells up to 3rd magnitude.
Base variable, +4 AC)

An alternative method could involve making a bargain with a spirit to achieve the same result. Then you might be able to avoid warping - no actual spell needed, just an actual 'mind' being present to form a shield around the magus' mind. A stupid spirit might agree to this (binding a spirit using a ReMe spell should still cause warping, so you need a willing spirit), but anything intelligent enough to fool an InMe spell is unlikely to do so.

The other advantage of using a spirit is that you don't need to work out which spell would do the job, or how it worked!


One the Herbam effects are a version, and a option; to me this is a Muto Terram (or other Form) with requisite Mentem...

Wouldnt the spell need to be running for a duration though?

might be. I was sure of what I was intending, biut not on how to translate it in spell parameters. So spell -1 magnitude and make it run for Sun. :slight_smile: