Dangerous Diedne Thread

I found that quote too Urien, I also found this on page 9 of TL:

Later the same page.

Somehow the Tribunal began debating the behavior of house Diedne rather than houses Tremere, Flambeau and Jerbiton. Of course there was a conspiracy if only a conspiracy to protect the Order from destruction.

I'm personally convinced that it was a conspiracy originating with house Tremere to force the Order into a position where it either disintegrated (with Tremere ready to grab the choice parts) or enacted Tremere's vengeance upon its two great foes. Diedne and Guernicus. After all as page 38 of TL tells us (emphasis mine):

What better way to enact revenge for the Sundering than force house Guernicus to turn upon house Diedne?

As for Diedne's 'secrecy':

But what if it wasn't house Tremere that were behind the conspiracy? While they had a motive there is always a question to be asked when a conspiracy is uncovered: "Que Bono?" - Who Profits?

Curiously human sacrifice was the justification the Romans historically used to justify the massacre of druids on Anglesey. History repeating or learned from?

What's your take on them not going after House Tytalus, then? I'd call him a greater foe than Guernicus. Actually Jerbiton stopped the Sundering for years, and it only went ahead after he died, so...

House Criamon then, after Criamon's Twilight, came clean about the desire to perform voluntary human sacrifice and told everyone everything about their mysteries to anyone who asked. Criamon's the -worst- example for House Diedne because the question of "What was Criamon hiding?" is answered "He'd killed himself and was some sort of funky ghostly magic being who was outside the Code and was planning to have his followers volunteer for periodic human sacrifice."

He was hiding something that you need to explain very carefully to outsiders if you don't want them to form a disgusted mob with the pitchforks and the torches, IMO.

But that's half the fun of being a fan of any collaborative work... looking at inconsistancies and building concensus out of it. "It says X here, but Y there... why?" Sure, the answer is because it was written by to different authors, but if they are both true, what would it mean?"

To the Christian mindset that's Martyrdom. You notice that while the Criamon magi speak of their founder in messianic terms they never make a direct claim. Criamon intentionally entered Twilight for reason he felt benefited his Sodales and the order as a whole. House Tremere might find themselves handicapped if they tried to argue with that.

But everyone (who can read latin) knows that the Druids practiced human sacrifice, Ceaser said so.

It would mean that some of the Diedne were up to no good...the rest were not...ala Tytalus...(The whole thing being what? 15 Magi from the house? Out of almost a hundred?)
Those particular Diedne should have been eliminated, but Tremere turned it into a House thing...I certainly can't see Tremere taking up that cause for altruistic reasons...after all, they DID NOT march all of house Tytalus because of fifteen Magi...I simply see it as a case of greed and fear (again, the Infernal won that one).

See the above...Diedne being the largest and (obviously) the most powerful house, made a great target for the Infernal. Somewhere there was mention (Serf's Parma on that one) that the Infernal is the enemy of the Order...
1+1=2 (See Erik, I can add :wink: )

As for the Romans preaching about human sacrifice...they sat around in large numbers to watch people get slaughtered... :confused:
Whats the difference there? :unamused:


Actually, thats Suicide...a mortal sin.

Not the way House Criamon tells it. Indeed as far as they're concerned he's still alive. (Again emphasis mine.)

It'd also be almost impossible to criticise House Criamon's behavior; they are amongst the most charitable of the houses, and the younger magi are evidently respectful to their seniors, willingly taking time from their own studies to aid them in their research.

Both are things that house Tremere desire amongst themselves.

Well I note that it seems that historical Druids had a taboo against written recording of their rituals. Hum what if:

  1. House Diedne was a mystery cult

  2. Its members could not produce written works on magic (but could use the writings of others).

  3. Due to number 2 above Diedne magi used on average more vis then other magi.

  4. Due to number 1 and 2 above members of the house tended to congregate in house covenants (teaching still being possible).

  5. The House was involved in mundane politics to the extent that it opposed the Anglo Saxon conquest of England (and was thus dislike by the Anglo-Saxon Hedge wizard of House Ex Misc).

  6. Large portions of the British Isle were under the control of the crown of Norway at the time of the Scheism. House Diedne was seen as collaborators with the Order of Odin.

  7. House Diedne may actually have practiced some form of human sacrifice as part of their rituals. If a member of the house had made a breakthrough allowing vis to be harvested for such sacrifices (or simply if demonic intervention produced vis), suppressions of this knowledge could have been grounds for war.

Would seem that their could be a fair number of reasons for war other then simply "Diedne were evil".

In Lion and the Lily it is suggested/stated that the Covenant of Branugorix (sp.?) in Brittany was the domus magna of House Diedne. This was the Gaulish name of the covenant, it had another name in Breton, which I can't remember. (Bren G'wrach? Something like that).


... is waiting for a Quesitor to jump in and close down this clearly very dodgy thread :wink:

We prefer to let traitors to the Order show their true colors and then strike at them when they feel safe. Handwaves. These aren't the hoplites you are looking for, sodalis.

Grrr, found out...
Okay then...I charge you all with endangering the Order...
But since its Christmas, I will offer a simple fine of One pawn of Vis and a promise to be kind at least once this year...
Merry Christmas to you all...

(No, you can't kill the red suited faerie for his Vis...molesting the Fae and all that)