Detecting the invisible

I did.... And now I see the funny mixup... but not those species. The species that are a consequence of Imaginem magic.

I thought you guys were just making bad jokes.
:slight_smile:

Grand Master Flambeau magi do not make bad jokes (they save themselves the embarrasment :smiley: ) - they simply just torch things!

How typical of a Ex Miscellanea to read Darwin, Evolution-jokes and all manner of far out things into anything :smiley:

(In hindsight I can see the mix-up. Darwin wasn't in my thoughts at the time, so I missed the obvious mixup when I posted it)

Not to muddy the waters more, I was only speaking jokingly about the Darwin thing. You said:

"I wonder if it is at all possible to enchant the species themselves?"

I said:

"Wow, great ideas!

I'm not sure what the practical idea of enchanting a species is. How far does a specific species travel, and at what speed? Are you thinking along the line of Shout to Fireball transformation, or perhaps Fart to blizzard?"

I was indeed talking about "spee-kee-ahz" here, doubting that you could enchant them.

Then you said:

"You got me lost there.

I do not think it is possible to enchant species - only the "origin" of species - and the closest thing to it is probably the the sense-magic of the Bjornaer."

So, I think we both agree you can't enchant "spee-kee-ahz", and I think only unknown deadly rituals of the Quesadors can enchant entire "spee-she-z".
:blush:

...still loosing me...

I think the difference is the pronunciation of 5. as opposed to 1.

Perhaps it is a non native english speaker thing.

The title of Charles Darwin's most famous book in English is "The Origin of Species"

In any case attempts to explain humor are rarely worth the effort. I would advise Angafea to stop trying to explain and tell Furion to accept that it was a joke that didn't work and the chances of having it work are becoming more remote with each post.

Would follow that trying to detect an invisible magus is also an act of scrying?

Depends on the circumstances... But generally I'd say it would only constitute an act of scrying under conditions that would already normally constitute scrying.

Like everything, it would have to be adjudicated at tribunal. Yes, you are technically scrying, but if he were found invisible within the boundaries of your covenant, you wouldn't be penalized for it.

I'm sure there have to be plenty of Peripheral Code rulings on the topic.

Wow,

this thread really spun off, and to new directions, too.

Thank you to everyone for your insights, I'll think this over.

BR
Sejanus

Thank you for trying to get us to safer waters.

I do know the "Origin of The Species" and its title in english. It hadn't been in my mind at the time of making the post sparking this confusion, but I realised the obvious cause for misinterpretation later, and the joke, only to become further confused by Angafea's "explanation" of the joke...

The species of wich I spoke was of course the term used in Ars to cover the concept of sensations - a term I presume to be inspired by the latin word meaning "sight, appearance, show, splendor, beauty" and most of all the term of "species intelligibilis" phrased by Thomas Aquinas in his Theory of Knowledge as he tries to explain the human senses and more importantly how the mind works.

and

The text further says that the Order is rather keen on upholding the rules against scrying, but also that many of the offences within this cathegory at times have had contradicting rulings in various tribunals. In short this is how the rules are coined, but if the situation is enough in your favour or if you know how to play the game of hermetic political chess, they rules might at times be bend in your favour (or against it).

Inclined to agree with you, but I am still struggling with a related subject (my blind magus that I finally picked up again) and then I came across this spells in HoH:TL, that supports Angafea :

But basically my problem is finding ways for my blind magus to function, but feeling sure that it is be reasonable effects, trying to get interpretation of RAW, the setting and what just seems awesome to meet.

Another option is to have Second Sight. It makes things much simpler :stuck_out_tongue:

Maybe you just need a seeing-eye grog. :slight_smile:

Are you planning to eventually get a Familiar?
You would be able to use it's senses.

If you are using spells or an enchanted device to "See" ,
isn't this using magic to spy on your sodales?

Interestingly enough, last night's session involved a flambeau of our troupe who had been blinded by his Pater in a confrontation (that had been 20 years in coming) by a INCANTATION OF THE MILKY EYES. His eyes will mend (unlike mine that are due to a Flaw), but last night he managed travelling the halls of the covenant by using WORDS OF THE FLICKERING FLAME and coercing a torch into guiding him along.

Concerning my character currently in the mold, I have for now no familiar-plans, but I might get there. Nor do I plan on having a grog along him all the time. He will not get Second Sight either (though he got some other virtues connected to his otherwise blind eyes.

The spell above I only mentioned because of the discussion of detecting invisible - I do not think that a blind character could use any kind of spells with Target: Vision. He is unable to see, and I wonder if sight is even possible to achieve by seeing through grogs, familiars, or mutoing eyes on his forehead.. In short whether sight is at all possible.

For now I have prepared him with only the Eyes of the Bat as his only navigation, and since I am already having used too many xp I doubt I will be making any more spells to help him in that regard. :cry:

Concerning scrying. First of all this magus will be going to use a lot of "forceless casting", secondly if he is actually using spells to see at his location, and with forceless casting, I wonder whether that constitutes scrying. Being invicible or scrying in secret from afar no doubt is, as is mental probing or using Intellego directly on a magus, but using magic to "gather the species" (NO pun intenden :laughing: ) at your location is somewhat more in the grey zone. But interesting indeed (the character being a quaesitor will hopefully give him the benefit of the doubt).

From a game mechanics point of view ,
a blind magus does have seriously reduced learning opportunities.

Even if you don't have a "seeing-eye" grog ,
you may need a "reading-book" companion ,
preferably one with Magic Theory.

I am working on this as we speak... but it will appear in another thread very soon... :unamused:

Theoretically, InIm spells intended to grant him the ability to see would work. Those spells must work independently of whether the character is blind or not. Otherwise, the initiation script for Sensory Magic would be impossible because you couldn't grant sense to an inanimate object.

There should probably be a discussion with the player regarding whether it is appropriate to completely bypass the flaw that way. If the player assumes his character will get a free pass and be able to function as if he'd been sighted in the first place...