Divine Methods

So, after hearing about "Target: Sin" in a previous thread, I went out and bought RoP: The Divine. I have resisted buying this and it's companion volume "The Infernal" as I have no great interest including much of either in my Saga. Any interaction my players had would be unencumbered by rules or expectations in these two areas.

That's all well and good, but now I have rules in my hands, and while I know I can do with them what I'd like, I'd would prefer to make decisions based on the intention of the rules, even it that decision is "they don't work for me".

So, the Methods of creating Miraculous Effects, we have 3 listed:

Invocation requires a Confidence point and basically takes effect quickly. Though I don't see any rules for it, from what it says about the effort required, I would allow this sort of thing as a combat action.

Meditation doesn't require any expenditure except time, fair enough. So this happens "slowly", maybe anywhere from a minute to hours. If I required a specific guideline, do you think a minute per magnitude lies within the spirit of the description? One might think that there might be a bonus to your roll for extra time spent.

Purity "usually" requires the expenditure of a Long Term Fatigue level, and requires you to fast or deprive yourself in other ways. I wonder if anyone has any insight into the "usually" part, beyond the normal "change the rules to fit your needs" thing. There is no such caveat on Invocation's use of Confidence. The thing I'm really looking for is what the intention of how quickly one can use a Purity effect is. If a character is already fasting, can these effects be used quickly, as in combat, or is the feel more of starting to fast, and after skipping a meal or several the devout can invoke the effect.

Again, I understand I can do whatever I want in my game, but I'm wondering how others use these guidelines.

Woo-hoo! Now that you've got the hammer, let's see if we can find you some nails...

I agree. I'd say this is like casting a formulaic spell; you can do it in one round.

I think Meditation effects should take a lot of time to bring about, because the character is getting herself into a trance state, and that's not something that you can just turn on and off. You need about an hour no matter what level effect you're going for, but if you spend a bunch of time before that preparing, I'd probably give the player a bonus to the Stamina rolls and related Concentration rolls (I don't have the page number, but the meditation process is discussed in the section on New Abilities, under Meditation), the same way a summoner gets a bonus for candles and suchlike in the Infernal book. Also, maybe the player would only have to make one roll, rather than a series of them.

Purity is about harnessing the spiritual power of the body, and it can be done quickly, but it requires a sacrifice on the part of the character. You have to do something that costs you a long-term Fatigue level, or else give yourself a Light Wound. This could be as simple as "drawing upon your reserves of strength," closing your eyes and exerting your will. It's like fatiguing yourself to cast a spell. It could also involve actually damaging your body, like whipping or starving yourself.

I played a holy woman with Purity for a while. She lived an ascetic lifestyle, always eating and drinking with extreme moderation, and this was usually how she "paid" for her effects. Once, she went on a pilgrimage while praying to heal an injured grog, walking to a shrine and praying all night in vigil to explain the loss of fatigue. Most of the time, though, she just took a Fatigue level like a magus casting a spontaneous spell, and we assumed that she recovered it by the next day or two.


Thanks so much Erik.

Now, of course, I have to design an NPC to suprise the PCs with!

PC 1: I'm sick of this know it all Priest, I'm doing a Perdo mentem spell to make him forget all the bible. Hah! I got the spont spell, barely. Eat magic, god boy!

Me: Huh, you'd think that'd be enough, but he continues spouting bible verses, however a look of concern crosses his face and he makes eye contact with you.

PC1: But....How....?

Not to mention the loaves and fishes "trick" and praying to transform a blaspheming grog into a jackass. Piety/Intervention, here I come!

Don't miss the guideline errata.

Hmmm... or is it the Malus Maleficarum? muuuhaaahaha

Thanks for pointing this out Fruny.

I'm confused by a bit of the Errata. It says :

Powers and Effects guidelines (pp. 48-56): Wherever a guideline mentions (level - X) or (magnitude - X) for the power of an effect, replace with (level + X) or (magnitude + X). One of the more annoying possible typographical errors.

Does this included Guidelines like "Temper a Divnine aura, with a value equal to half (the magnitude of the effect -3 (ERRATA +3), +3 maximum.

It's hard to generate an effect that isn't at the maximum.

Is it intended for a blessing to bestow Magic Resistance equal to the level of the effect +15?

I should also note the Cursing Guidelines are on pg 51, not pg 61 as the errata says.

Don't forget to add the required magnitudes for R/D/T, nor that Methods and Powers are abilities, not arts, which will reduce the scores by a factor of 2.2 (square root of 5) for an equivalent amount of XP.

With minuses instead of plusses, achieving any kind of result would be a miracle. :wink:

the "free" +N bonus magnitudes are there so that certain General Effect spells or powers will, when used with their most common RDT, permit a useful spell/power with a net effect of Spell Level.

you start with a guideline Level, say 15, with effect Level+3 mag, but that is for Personal/Momentary/Ind.
To get eg Voice/Conc/Ind, you need to add 2 mag for Voice, 1 for Conc.
The spell with effect of (level+3) uses those +3 mag for the Voice/Conc RDT and balances out as

spell level 15, affects a L 15

If a spell guideline subtracts magnitudes from the GL level to generate effect level, then you are truly stuffed, as you have to "pay" several magnitudes just to get up to 0 effect!