Do magi have to penetrate to touch other magi?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
61

The goofy idea that the parma magica acts like some kind of force field is not consistent with the information that we have about Magic Resistance. There are a number of examples in the rules to define how it works:

A normal rock continuously propelled by magic stops at her skin or clothes. The maga feels
the warning that something has been resisted, and also feels the rock touching her (before it
falls), but she is not struck by the rock. It is as if the rock had been moved up against her as
slowly and carefully as possible.

The maga can feel the rock; it touches her. It simply does not harm her.

If the maga steps onto a magical bridge, it remains and will bear her weight.

The weight of the maga is ON the bridge: she is touching it.

If the maga falls onto a magical bridge, she is stopped by the bridge, and takes falling
damage.

The magical bridge causes the maga damage, despite its magical nature: she obviously touches it if it damages her.

If the magical bridge falls onto the maga, it is stopped, but does her no damage.

Whether the magical bridge affects the maga is entirely dependent upon the outcome to be expected. There is no force field always shielding her from any sort of touch -- the magic's effect is entirely situational, and changes with the circumstances.

If a maga falls into a pit full of magical spikes, she either slides around the spikes if there is
room, or finishes lying on top of them if there is not. She takes normal falling damage, but no
damage from the spikes.

Note that here it's the maga being affected and moved around by her own Magic Resistance.

An invisible character cannot touch or exert physical force on the maga, even if the
invisibility spell had Personal Range. The maga feels the warning that something has been
resisted, but feels nothing else. See the magical bridge examples, earlier, for further
discussion.

I don't find it particularly helpful to know that I can walk on an invisible person, fall on an invisible person and be hurt by that, but if they happen to fall on me I'll be fine, but this is what we've got. Per the "normal rock continuously propelled by magic" example I'd say we're to assume that the maga feels the invisible person touching her but that the invisible person is stopped from exerting physical force on her.

3 Likes
62

"One possibility" is not what I'd call a ringing endorsement. It's one of the many places where David Chart lists the consequences of a Troupe's interpretation.

63

Many of these are instances where the nagic can be seperated from the object- I talked about such. A rock can be seperated fron the force propelling it, so the rock ignorea MR even when its force isn't.

When the magic cannot be seperated from the object, it does mean the mage effectively as a mini forcefield yes. At least one canon spell gives an example of such.

As for the magical bridge example- I wouldn't be so certain. Wards against earths have a mage hover slightly above earth but still be able to walk fine and count as on earth for most practical purposes.

64

Fair point, and on its own its weak- however, the fact David had multiple chances to errata it and decided not to is what indiactes to me its RAI. Its a rather simple errata to say the longevity ritual doesn't trigger MR or such.

65

You might reread the quote from David. There are two things to note. First, he pointed out that it did not occur to him earlier. That means there was no intention behind it being that way when the rules were written. So it simply cannot be RAI, but it may be RAW. Second, he didn't say punches will be affected by Magic Resistance, only that they "may be affected." And it's only "one possibility." That means that he's not even saying whether he agrees it's RAW, just agreeing that that might be a valid reading. That leaves it open to interpretation. No erratum means he hasn't changed that. So we know from that quote that it's not RAI and only might be RAW.

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66

The simplest interpretation for me has been to ask myself whether the magic would have an impact on the target protected by magic resistance. If the answer is no, I don't use the rules for magic resistance. Under this reading, magi can shake hands and you can safely ignore the pink dot too. A mage with a Shriek of the Impeding Shaft active or who has his hair color esthetically changed can still punch someone without looking up his Penetration, but someone who is magically strengthed can't - there is some magic behind the punch.

67

Fair enough

68

How do we define 'impact'? Magical light cannot illuminate beings with MR without penetrating for example as we can see from Mien of Helios, despite the fact it doesn't have a heavy impact. This doesn't neccessarily hide the mage, as it presumably makes a dark humanoid silehoutte which may be very obvious in camp with a magical light.