Donna - weaponsmith (development)

Obviously Spring is going to be setting up her workshop- will she be allowed to set this up at the main covenant, or will she have to set it up in Fleur's Sanctum area? I notice there is alienable land... anyone looking to sell?

If you have money you can buy land. How much do you have?
Setting up shop in Palma will be a lucrative business though. It is a major city, and the newly conquoring army of Aragon will be needing services such as yours.
But your first duty is to Fleur, and her first duty is to the covenant :smiley:
I am playing it that we do not yet know how good your skills really are. The covenant may put in an order for equipment some time around summer or fall. Probably for armor, so we can even out the combat scores of the groups to be within the five-point required range. How much chain mail can you produce in a season or two? At what quality? Can you make plate & mail?

That is complicated, and not well covered by the rules. A weaponsmith has an income (according to city and guild) of 20 lbs of silver per year. The workshop itself has a cost to establish of 5 lbs of silver (based on a workshop for expensive items, which high end swords would be). If she were able to sell her workshop and posessions before leaving Toledo, and also a question of how much of that money she would have been able to keep. If we assume one year's disposable income are her current coins I think that will make for the easiest answer, so 20 lbs if you concur with the method.

As to making armor, it is considered a 'related material', which reduces her effective craft score by 1 to 13, allowing her to produce 2.6 suits of chainmail or 20.8 heater shields. They don't have plate listed, LOM has it listed but no reference as to the time it takes to make- chainmail is listed as being expensive, as I would presume plate is as well, though chainmail has a reputation amongst those who make armor as being the more tedious of the two to make, though historically plate was more expensive as it required custom fitting... so how you want to rule with that information is up to you.

So would she be able to buy property within the level 5 magic aura, or should she be traveling with fleur?

comparing covenants and city and guild, I get that Donna can make 96 points in swords in a season, 89.6 points in other weapons, or 166.4 points of armor.

For the book impaired people like myself, how much armor (and how many swords) would that be?

That would be 6 expensive swords, 24 standard swords, or 96 inexpensive swords, 2.6 full suits of expensive armor, 5.2 partial suits of expensive armor, 10.4 full suits of standard armor, 20.8 suits of partial standard armor, 41.6 full suits of inexpensive armor of 83.2 partial suits of inexpensive armor

For the further book-impaired, what is the difference between an expensive, standard, and inexpensive item?

In City & Guild there are bonuses for high quality items. Expensive inexpensive and the like is as per the weapons table in the Ars Core book IIRC. (Not much experience with C&G myself).

After looking at the se totals I have to say WOW! I am impressed by your capacity to produce stuff.

There are no rules for Companions graduating with money or land or anything without taking a special Virtue. So Donna has no starting funds. The covenant will fund her initial workshop, what money she makes and saves up afte that is all on her. Like most covenants, we expect two seasons of work a year out of you. The rest is all yours. You can buy property in Arans (the village that supports the covenant), but there is no magic aura there. The aura is the castle, which the covenant owns, and there is no property for sale. You can possible convince the covenant to set you up a shop in the aura. But first you have to prove yourself to them, and explain why you need an aura. I myself have no idea why. I do not own C&G. So I also do not know what your totals and scores mean. I am not concerned about the number of pieces. I am interested in the Quality of those pieces. Will they be better than normal? By how much?
The reason for my inquiry is that I am working on organizing trained fighting groups. Combat scores need to e within 5 points of each other. For the most part, the numbers work out fine except for Soak. A couple of guys could use some better armor in order to fit into groups. The reason their protection is so low to begin with is because of Encumbrance. They are tryig to travel light. Now, a little more weight will not kill them, but getting as much protection for as little Load as possible will be beneficial. We only need a handful, like five partial suits of mail.
One issue is that Lords of Men totally changed the armor rules. Instead of Partial/Full; the categories are now Curias/Haubergon/Hauberk/Full. Both Plate (ancient style) and Plate * Mail (new style) are introduced. This is not full on gothic plate or even full developed plate-mail. Just a chainmail outfit with some extra protective plating.
What I am thinking is that this could e a good way to earn your stripes.Hammer out a few suits of mail, and people will bbe like "whoa, what is this? Awesome work! Who made this?" And we roleplay the results from there.

Arbitrary designations. Ars doesn't make you count coins except for large economies such as a covenant. Inexpensive is basically free. Stadard is a fair price that most are able to afford (except those who are Poor). Expensive Armaments are pricy and presume you have wealth or some other social reason to have acquired them; such as being a Knight or Wealthy..

Regarding the upcoming form of plate armor. Not in vogue in this period yet, but coming in the next 20 years or so. Or already implemented if the saga wants to. Somewhere it does have to start, after all. Basically it is attacking pieces of steel to the surcoat.

Courtesy of Osprey Publishing. Quite good books for visual military reference (text of books varies wildly in quality)
Listed as Knight: 1290

A more in period knight/armor (1250)

And what we are leaving behind (1200)

It just occurred to me that we're getting close to the Hundred Years War era that my wife's living history group works in.


Yeah, but that is a hundred years and half a continent away still :slight_smile:
Regarding Xavi's images: Full On Plate Mail is under development in the Levant, I think. That is the first picture you showed. The second is what I would call the beginnigs of plate & mail, leg pieces, maybe some arms, not all that much. The final pic is pure chain mail with no plate pieces or greaves or anything.

The images are awesome Xavi! Many Thank Yous :smiley:

The armor she makes would have a +4 soak.

A question here- I can understand wanting the 2 seasons of work, but with what I want to do with the character we will be needing to 'hybridize' the rules from City and Guild and Covenants. Now according to covenants she can save the covenant 14lbs a year on weapon maintenance, which can cover up to 50% of costs, which are 1 lb for every 320 points in weapons and armor. According to City and Guild she would (if she were a purely independent craftsperson) generate 20 lbs income a year with 2 seasons work, and 114 labor points which she can use to improve her business- normally sustaining a business consumes 36 of those labor points.

A few options on how we can handle the calculations:
1)the business is an investment for the covenant, they receive some portion of her income
2) she has to work 2 seasons for the covenant, but does not need to spend 36 labor points a year maintaining her business. This will inevitably lead to her gaining a reputation for avarice if she works extra seasons to improve her business.
3) We assume that the 36 labor points represents her obligation to the covenant.
4) We calculate the maximum savings she can show the covenant, and any special orders they may have (such as the upcoming summer) by ratio of her productivity respectively and whatever she has left over she can invest in her business.

If you have other suggestions I would welcome hearing them.

If you can craft excellent armor for a mastiff, I am a client.

The last two are ones that I actually see the most at the baronial fighter practice. (I'm a fringe member of the local Society for Creative Anachronism group).

+4 is...
pretty f'n awesome
Though my instinct tells me there should be a cap at +3. But regardless, that's the kind of work that will get the covenant to take notice. I am seeing it like this. You took a job at Fleur's covenant, or were about to, and made fast friends with Fleur. Companions. She moves to Andorra, so you follow suit. She gets stationed in the city of Palma, and she asks Carmen if her friend Donna can have a job. Carmen tells Fleur she has an allotment for staff and pay roll. Fleur says that the costs and benefits of Donna's work are beyond her knowledge and need, they should be for the good of the covenant. So Carmen agrees to set up a shop for Donna, and requires two seasons of work per year manufacturing and maintaining the armament requirements of the covenant. Specifically for the chapter in the Balearic Islands. Arnau's mercenary company, the Flame Brothers, are stationed there and will have need of your services. At first Carmen is thinking of the cost savings and making the chapter profitable. The covenant as a whole is wealthy. The chapter house is a money pit, and calculated separately, it cannot sustain itself financially.
This is an example of something I wouldn't bother thinking about and just let slide, until you guys start hammering on me about it :laughing:
The deal is this. The covenant owns the shop, pays the rent, whatever. If you quit or get fired or disappear or die, we can replace you. The facility in Palma has it's primary purpose to support and maintain the armaments of the security forces working for the covenant. That is your job and this is your post. What is required of you is two seasons worth of work per year. The rest of your time is your own. Your payment is support of your lifestyle at the Companion level, and you have free use of the shop which you can use to run a side business or build model trains or do whatever.
Now mind you, this is the initial deal. Once you produce some of your high quality items for the covenant, you are in a better position to negotiate. Or, even better, sell your personal labor time back to the covenant at a higher premium rate.

Adapting Lords of Men into things...
will have to wait for my next post :mrgreen:

That's one of the things I'm still getting used to - the range of what's normal. For example, Lucas has a spell that makes his clothes Soak +3. Is that good? Middling? I'm just not sure.