Effect expiry is a detrement to the game?

[DIREWOLF75]

I have two points, one a clarification shown us by David years ago and the other a possible application if you want effect expiry for lesser enchanted items:

You can only enchanted a lesser enchanted device if you could normally instill the effect in one season. I don't know why so many of us lost this bit, but David pointed it out for us. What this means is that you must have a lab total of at least double the effect level.

Its one of those things that are VERY, even extremely obvious AFTER you noticed it...

And it still happens all the time that people miss things like that. I´ve seen much worse even. I´ve missed much more silly things myself as well.
For myself at least part of it is that i normally read fast, so even though i read it all, some implications sometimes somehow can get lost.
I´ve noticed that if i go through a text as if i were doing a proofreading for it, i just about never miss details or implications like this... So, probably a matter of not taking enough time to think through the complete meaning of the texts.

[Ponderingturtle]

@callen

@Halancar

But I don't see the logic of making it inapplicable to lesser enchanted items.

I have two points, one a clarification shown us by David years ago and the other a possible application if you want effect expiry for lesser enchanted items:

You can only enchanted a lesser enchanted device if you could normally instill the effect in one season. I don't know why so many of us lost this bit, but David pointed it out for us. What this means is that you must have a lab total of at least double the effect level.

If you were to allow effect expiry with lesser enchanted devices, this would mean you would still need the same minimum lab total. What it would do is allow you to make multiple items (of the same TeFo combination as per the rules) in the same season. For instance, with a lab total of TeFo60 you could make a lesser enchanted device of TeFo30. Using effect expiry you could make one TeFo30 and one TeFo10 both with a 70-year effect expiry in one season. You could not, however, make a TeFo40 effect using 70-year effect expiry. This violates the errata but would be how effect expiry would apply without the errata.

Chris

This gets into some debateable things about what effect means. As expiry is a fundamental part of the enchantment you could argue that it is a fundamental part of the effect and should be taken into account. But expiry is as locked into the enchantment as much as uses per day or penetration, and those certainly count for effect you can enchant or not.

So I am not sure if you can discount expiry with regards to what effects can be instilled in one season as it is a fundamental part of the effect. If it had said no greater than half lab total it would of course be different.

[callen]

@Ponderingturtle

This gets into some debateable things about what effect means.

I believe effect level is defined pretty well. Otherwise I could see the point, except that this came from the guru himself so we know which side of the debate is what was intended. The errata get rid of the problem entirely by getting ride of effect expiry.

Chris

[Tugdual]

@Ponderingturtle

This gets into some debateable things about what effect means. As expiry is a fundamental part of the enchantment you could argue that it is a fundamental part of the effect and should be taken into account.

"It does not allow him to instill effects he could not otherwise manage."

[Saxonous]

"Has anyone told a cool story about devices with effect expiry?" Yes. We were getting invaded by a hedge tradition that was stealing our Vis through a fairy circle that opened at odd times. Once we figured it out, we needed a way to react quickly. Using effect expiry, we were able to make a magic warning bell in one season and get it in place. A stopgate measure, yes, but one that worked and saved us a lot of Vis, without worries about botches. Mind, we were just getting our Covenant started and wanted to do this without help, and we didn't have the resources to loose. Once we had secured the circle, we started dealing with the fairies on the other side, for lab equipment. We got better terms making effect expiry (seven years) items for them, because it meant a story every seven years. Again, helpful for a spring Covenant.

[noliar]

A better errata may be:
Creating a charged or lesser enchanted item with effect expiry grants no reduction in creation time.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@noliar

A better errata may be:
Creating a charged or lesser enchanted item with effect expiry grants no reduction in creation time.

It took me a second to get this. So it's not any easier to create items with effect expiry yet you can still do it.

[noliar]

exactly