Enchanting music ability

To not be flippant, it would depend on how serious the barfight was, how threatened I was. If all my senses were telling me to fight or flee, and I couldn't flee, then I might notice, but I'd sure the hell not listen to the lyrics or mentally remark on the quality of the performance.

I don't know - what is the "emotion" that covers "Rise up against the local lord" or "Release this specific prisoner/Relinquish this specific trophy"? That would have to be emotions that are (or can be) very specifically targeted, I'd say, to the point that the result is almost indistinguishable from a specific action if the EF is high enough.

I think that would depend on exacly "Why?" they're fighting in the first place. If simply because they're angry, then probably yes (but not necessarily "easy" as far as EF is concerned, depending on the cause of the fight), but if fighting for a lord or if their lives or property depend on it, if it's "do or die", I think that "surrender and give this cause up" (which amounts to the same thing, depending) is asking a lot more, and is rather specific.

But... who ever said that was the desired effect? We were talking about "use in combat" - no one ever specified general or specific afaics. (In fact, the OP specifically expressed the thought that such was not "general", if that was in fact the goal.)

(edit - cross-edit w/ the below, re-editing for continuity)

Certainly!
However,

that's not emotion any more.

And by general/specific, I would rather go into details of emotion. Calm/fear is a general emotion. Resolution is a specific, for example.

in the present case (but I didn't want to turn the discussion into a specific discussion :wink:), those mercenaries are not fighting by anger. They are fighting because that's their job. Some may enjoy fighting, some may do it because they are the wrathful type who is happy to kick some asses, but most are only doing their jobs because they need to survive and receive the gold promised by the customer.

If Celine Dion were teleported back in time 800 years into a battle, she would have no microphone with speakers. Targets might hear the music, or not.

However, if Celine Dion had Enchanting Music and could use it undisturbed while battle swirled about, I would personally say she could use it to try and calm people down so that they would simply give up fighting. The bigger and more bloody the battle, the tougher the Ease Factor. There would definitely be a range involved; I would say 50 paces, personally, there being no amplification involved. If she rolled high in a gigantic swirling melee, she could stop warriors in their tracks over the range allowed. Of course, warriors beyond range would continue fighting and stopped warriors at the edge of effect might be disadvantaged. In a bar room fight, everybody would stop at once.

For general effects, it is not a matter of whether the targets hear the music or not, it's whether they're in range. For specific effects, the targets must hear the words and therefore must hear exactly what is being sung.

Further, whoever stopped a fight by words alone using Enchanting Music should seriously be ready for escape afterward. Accusations of witchcraft are going to be tossed about soon after when people start thinking about what just happened.

Oh for heavens sake.

Pavorotti then. (Though Celine can amplify with the best of them.... sadly.)

There are lots of singers who can make themeslves heard without mikes.

There are cases where vollume would not be an issue.

As for the emotions, oh knock it off.

Even if the reason for fighting is purely rational, the singer can create an overriding emotion that overwhelms the person in question. "I must kill him, grab the key and escape" can be overriden with emotions of fear, shame or, hell, a sudden desire to eat the apples on the table. All would have a different ease factor on the Enchanting Music side of the roll.

But lets not pretend that having a super-good reason for doing something cannot be overriden by emotion.

Anyone here ever wanted to ask a girl out, and didn't because of fear? Anyone here ever know it was a terrible idea to date a girl, but was overcome by.... whatever? Then you have some inkling of how this ability works.

Its a matter of higher ease-factors allready covered by the book, with those for Entrancement making a good guideline (though it would need to be modified for emotions, rather than orders).

The ability EXPLICITLY allows the "caster" to give the emotions he creates foci. Its right there in the spell. "Rise up against the Baron" is not an emotional suggestion. "Be angry at the Baron" is an emotional suggestion.

Again, its right there in the ability. Let's not argue against what's explicitly right there.

As it stands, it seems that the real issues have been settled. I don't know what the heck the "eye contact" thing is about, but it seems like another thread to me.

Here's where we stand, as of now:

In order for E.M. to give a general emotion without a focus, the melody (not just the sound) must be heard.
In order for E.M. to give an emotion with a focus, the words must be heard clearly and understood.
In order for the Music to be heard, the musician must succeed a Com + Music Roll against a sliding scale Ease factor which
1.) Gets harder depending on circumstances of how noisy the place is and
2.) Is subject to normal penalties for doing other things (walking, watching other people, running, knitting etc, as with spell casting).

In order for E.M. to take emotional effect, it must succeed a Com + E.M. roll against the Stamina roll of the target, which has an Ease Factor bonus depending on the scale of change desired.
Example:
-Making people at a feast cheerful = low ease factor (Sta + 0).
-Making drunk brawlers at a feast revellous as opposed to angry = moderate ease factor (Sta + 6)
-Making drunk brawlers peaceful and attentive = hard ease factor (Sta + 12-15)

For help in deciding on the bonus, SGs can refer to comparable ease factors for mentem spells. So:
Changing an emotion to a similar emotion (anger to boisterous) is easier than chaning it to an opposed emotion (peaceful). Creating a new emotion depends on how extreme that emotion is.
Cancelling an existing emotion is impossible with Enchanting Music
Controlling an emotion for intensity depends on the severity of the emotion.
Changing the focus of an emotion (anger towards a barman to anger towards the baron) would be moderate difficulty, depending on how different the targets were.

Note: Emotions can, but will not necessarily, override willpower. A Strong Willed and Clear Thinking character who knows its imperative he escape from his prison, may feel a new emotion for peacefulness.

However, E.M. gives emotions, not commands. Emotions can be overcome by a character trait roll of suitable ease factor (9 to 15). The above character has "devoted to daughter + 3" and gets + 6 from the characteristics and + 3 from the severity of the situation.

He easily beats the 12 Ease Factor set by the SG.

That's the system I see people agreeing on.

Is there anyone who has serious issues? Remember, in God we trust, all others must cite RAW.

This does bring up another issue: How easy is it for someone hearing enchanting music to resist the urge of the power. There is nothing in the enchanting music about the resistance to it. I am already resigned to fact that any magic resistance make someone immune (TN 24 to win soul from a devil + 10-80 or more for the devil's magic resistance).

This was started by the specific case of us knowing a raid was coming. Of a mercenary band working for a Diabolist trying to get people to sacrifice and a companion with enchanting music to try to calm and put end to the fighting as the mercenary band attacked.

I don't think that to save a soul, you should beat the devil MR. You would have to beat the damned soul MR only.

In this case I have doubts calming would help because the soldiers weren't angry. I think shame is better. Shame contributing in a terrible sin. Or something else.

I don't know how useful this ability in your game. If very useful I understand restrictions. But if rarely used I would give the possibility for the player to play the specialty of her character.

Remember, Enchanting Music is like extremly flexible Mentem magic. As a rule, if a Mentem spell can do something emotionally, Enchanting Music can do it too.

Even if someone is not angry, but is attacking for some non-emotional reason, someone with E.M. can still create an overwhelming emotion that gets them to cease attacking, which can include fear, or a sense of profound peacefulness, or a tremendous dislike for fighting.

And RAW says it can "win a soul back from the Prince of Darkness." This because the ability is based on that possessed by Orpheus in Greek Mythology, who did use his magically beautiful voice to persuade Hades to allow him to take his beloved's soul back from Hell to the land of the living.

So its very possible.